Better than FR tank for 4x5 that isn't discontinued?

[Ed Bray]

I just remembered one processing problem I had with the Mod 54, but it wasn't the reel's fault. The Paterson tank isn't perfectly light tight, so it can have light leaks if you don't have the lid on. It can handle subdued light with the lid off. I use the safelight any time I have the lid off.

Are you sure you had the centre column of the Super System 4 tank in when you were using the MOD54, it does still need to be installed even with the MOD54, if so you either have a defective tank or have somehow misloaded it.

 

[PKM-25]

Forgive me but what is a "FR tank"?

Also, the only thing I will ever use to soup 4x5 is a 3010 Expert Drum, anything else has been a waste of time and film for me. The 3010's are not cheap but neither was all the film I hosed with inferior methods, especially considering time, food and gas money.

At first I used the 3010 drum on a Beseler motor base. I was so happy with the results that I now use a Jobo CPP2 and have two 3010 drums. But that's just me, I need professional results, period.

 

[JohnRichard]

FR Tank.

 

[CatLABS]

MOD54 and Paterson tank is really the only IN PRODUCTION item.

All Jobo 4X5 tanks are in production, and readily available.
There are various used options for same or less $$ then MOD54, but none of the possible problems.

No need for a Jobo machine to use a Jobo drum.

 

[WetMogwai]

Are you sure you had the centre column of the Super System 4 tank in when you were using the MOD54, it does still need to be installed even with the MOD54, if so you either have a defective tank or have somehow misloaded it.

I am using the column. Maybe I should look into finding another tank. I guess that's a good idea anyway since I prefer the lid of the System 4 to the Super System 4. Looks like I have an excuse to visit the local camera stores today and I won't be confusing everyone by looking for something strange like I did last time!

 

[fotch]

First the OP said CURRENTLY PRODUCED and second those are VERY hard to come by, still haven't found one, and they are super expensive...

Why are you yelling?

I found two with separate eBay offers, and purchased. Just have not used yet. Prices are in the same range as every other option, if your take the time to find them.

 

[StoneNYC]

I'm amazed it took 3 pages for someone to mention the Jobo 2590n. That's like the go-to tank for multi-sheet daylight processing of 4x5 film, used with or without the corresponding motorized processor. If you can get one with the loader base, its pretty awesome. On the flip side, if you've got hands that aren't freakishly small, they're easy enough to load up on their own. You just have to be patient with yourself. I've used them a number of times and haven't had a single issue.

Well if you look at the OP's equipment, he's using a $15 developing tank, do you think he/she will be able to shell out $3,000 for a whole developing machine system?

That's why no one mentioned it, because it's logical to assume this person isn't going to have that kind of money.

 

[StoneNYC]

Why are you yelling?

I found two with separate eBay offers, and purchased. Just have not used yet. Prices are in the same range as every other option, if your take the time to find them.

I was emphasizing not yelling, sorry.

And you found Nikkor tanks for $50 on eBay?

 

[StoneNYC]

I am using the column. Maybe I should look into finding another tank. I guess that's a good idea anyway since I prefer the lid of the System 4 to the Super System 4. Looks like I have an excuse to visit the local camera stores today and I won't be confusing everyone by looking for something strange like I did last time!

Are you sure you didn't fog the film some other way? Light leak in your camera?

 

[CatLABS]

Well if you look at the OP's equipment, he's using a $15 developing tank, do you think he/she will be able to shell out $3,000 for a whole developing machine system?

That's why no one mentioned it, because it's logical to assume this person isn't going to have that kind of money.

Jobo 4X5 options are available used for the same price as MOD54, and new for slightly more.

As many already mentioned there is no need for a machine to use Jobo (or any other tanks).

 

[Regular Rod]

Trays are best for control.

Trays are best for economy of materials.

Tanks are best for daylight.

Tanks (that don't leak) are best for keeping fingers out of the chemicals.

Tanks are best if you have limited room to work in.



So get the best of both worlds and use the tank that thinks it's a tray (or the tray that thinks it's a tank)!!!

and as I said earlier here is how to prepare it so you get great results every time. All the pitfalls are easily overcome if you follow the guide in the .pdf

RR

 

[CatLABS]

Trays are best for control.

Tanks are best for daylight.

Tanks (that don't leak) are best for keeping fingers out of the chemicals.

Tanks are best if you have limited room to work in.

View attachment 76596

So get the best of both worlds and use the tank that thinks it's a tray (or the tray that thinks it's a tank)!!!

and as I said earlier here is how to prepare it so you get great results every time. All the pitfalls are easily overcome if you follow the guide in the .pdf

RR

Where do you get the orbital?
Just did a quick search, and found only 1 on the auction site, in europe. Searching completed items brought up all but one out of the US and none were really "cheap" or cheaper then any of the currently available options (Jobo/MOD etc), which can be used straight out of the box.

4 sheets at 500ml does not seem like the most economical way to go as well.

 

[WetMogwai]

Are you sure you didn't fog the film some other way? Light leak in your camera?

While I've suspected my film holders of other problems because of some scratches on the back of several of my most recent sheets, there doesn't seem to be a light leak in my cameras or film holders. I've only seen the fogging on the side of the film that was the top in the tank when I developed in normal room light with the lid off so I could do rotation agitation. When I put the lid on and do inversion, keeping only subdued light when the lid is off, it works fine. The fogging looks similar to the fogging that I consistently got in the Yankee tank, just in a different place. It has to be the Paterson Super System 4 tank causing the problem. It looks like it just can't handle the brightness of the lights above the sink in my bathroom. I've considered using the kitchen sink, which is farther from bright lights, but since the Mod54 is better at handling inversions than I heard it was in previous models, I'm fine with keeping the lid on. I just wish it was easier to get on, so I might look for a System 4 tank.

 

[John Cee]

Are you sure you had the centre column of the Super System 4 tank in when you were using the MOD54, it does still need to be installed even with the MOD54, if so you either have a defective tank or have somehow misloaded it.

I am using the Paterson multi-reel 3 reel tank. I am not sure what the difference is between it and the System-4 tank, except that the multi-reel tank does not come with reels. The tanks look identical. Yes I am sure. After running the first batch through and having the film fogged I did a visual inspection and could see that the MOD54 is translucent and not opaque. If you test this you will see that the Paterson center support fits perfectly inside the MOD54 and that it actually sits in the tank better with the center support in place. Here is a link to the MOD54 website. Click on the video. This is exactly the setup I use and they specify using the "spindle". Watch the video and compare to what you are doing. Hope that helps. All the best! Dead Link Removed

 

[Regular Rod]

Where do you get the orbital?
Just did a quick search, and found only 1 on the auction site, in europe. Searching completed items brought up all but one out of the US and none were really "cheap" or cheaper then any of the currently available options (Jobo/MOD etc), which can be used straight out of the box.

4 sheets at 500ml does not seem like the most economical way to go as well.

I got mine from eBay. I simply saved a search for "Paterson Orbital" and when one came up bought it for about £140 (about $224). If you do want to use it for colour work then you simply go back to the 50ml and use the orbital base to agitate the films throughout the process. With normal (non-C41) B&W film the processor is used without the orbital base. It is used as a tray. It just happens to have a light baffled lid on it. 500ml makes a safety level to ensure the film is covered during stand and semi-stand development.

I noticed in your own store you are selling a second hand 20x24 drum on its own for $329 and your new 3006 drum is going for $499 plus shipping add in your foot pump at $65 and the Paterson Orbital is looking quite cost-effective and it is so much more versatile, especially when processing black and white.

RR

 

[pbromaghin]

Recent EBay completed listings for Uniroller agitators are generally $35-55. Others have commented sufficiently on tanks.

 

[CatLABS]

Actually if you look at the Jobo 2520 with 2509n reel, you can do up to 6 sheets at a time, with a time proven industry standard tool, which you can get used for under 140$ or new for 169$.
You can use the tank for inversion (though that is very un economical chemistry wise with 1250ml needed), or you can rotate it on any flat surface, with them minimum chemistry needed for 6 sheets being 270ml. That said, as you note, with BW you will need to calculate the correct min active material per sheet amount, which might be greater then 270ml.

I thought the minimum requirement for the orbital was 500ml, but 200ml is as good as any other solution.

Expert drums are more expensive, but for what they do - they are more then worth the extra cost.

I think the OP is looking for some readily available, and non expensive way to process 4X5 that will also yield proper results, (all options suggested in this thread are better then an FR tank, some more readily available then others), that said - the MOD54 and Jobo options have the most answers to the OP's initial questions.

 

[JohnRichard]

I'm glad every time I ask a question I learn so much more than "buy this product!"

You all are great. Keep going!

The Patterson Orbital is hard (for me ) to find, also no something I'm really looking for.
The "Jobo 2520 with 2509n reel" looks great!

Besides, if I was going to spend $3000, I'd just rather get the CPP3. It's basically the same type of system I used in high school.

Anyone know: FOTOIMPEX GmbH
They sell the jobo systems.

 

[pbromaghin]

Mr. CatLABS himself is a Jobo dealer.

 

[CatLABS]

CatLABS is the US distributor of Jobo analog products (www.jobo-usa.com)
We also sell Jobo gear directly (www.catlabs.info)

 

[Ed Bray]

I got mine from eBay. I simply saved a search for "Paterson Orbital" and when one came up bought it for about £140 (about $224). If you do want to use it for colour work then you simply go back to the 50ml and use the orbital base to agitate the films throughout the process. With normal (non-C41) B&W film the processor is used without the orbital base. It is used as a tray. It just happens to have a light baffled lid on it. 500ml makes a safety level to ensure the film is covered during stand and semi-stand development.

I noticed in your own store you are selling a second hand 20x24 drum on its own for $329 and your new 3006 drum is going for $499 plus shipping add in your foot pump at $65 and the Paterson Orbital is looking quite cost-effective and it is so much more versatile, especially when processing black and white.

RR

Wow, £140 for an orbital, I bought two (separately) for less than that together and then paid a further £35 for a motorised base (never actually used it).

If I am processing Semi-stand I use an Orbital without base in a 10" x 12" tray with a water bath which is sat upon a 11" x 14" dish warmer to keep the temperature constant over the long processing times that ensue. I have found that 400ml is more than sufficient to cover 4x 4x5 or 2x 5x7. To agitate I lift one end of the Orbital slightly to rock it in the water bath.

Apart from the Jobo Expert tanks, sheet films processed in the Orbital are as good as they get, no scratches, streaks or other blemishes.

 

[Regular Rod]

Wow, £140 for an orbital, I bought two (separately) for less than that together and then paid a further £35 for a motorised base (never actually used it).

If I am processing Semi-stand I use an Orbital without base in a 10" x 12" tray with a water bath which is sat upon a 11" x 14" dish warmer to keep the temperature constant over the long processing times that ensue. I have found that 400ml is more than sufficient to cover 4x 4x5 or 2x 5x7. To agitate I lift one end of the Orbital slightly to rock it in the water bath.

Apart from the Jobo Expert tanks, sheet films processed in the Orbital are as good as they get, no scratches, streaks or other blemishes.

Well done on the purchases! I suppose I was anxious to win the auction at the time because I had sheets waiting to be developed. My developer is so low cost, 500ml gives a nice safety margin for me. I wouldn't risk my films to any of the other methods now I have modified my Orbital. My agitation is a little bit like yours but I do it in groups of four left to right tilts and four back to front lifts. My motor base is like yours, unused...

RR

 

[Tom1956]

Tray man here.

 

[peter k.]

Fink-Roselieve cut-film-pack developing tanks, man here... ;-)

They are adjustable for 4x5 film on down to medium format.
It has a 'loading' sleeve, and at this time I have adjusted the film 'holders' to fit the 3.25 x 4.25 film I am using, and have to cut.

Life is good... been using them for years...

 

[StoneNYC]

Fink-Roselieve cut-film-pack developing tanks, man here... ;-)

They are adjustable for 4x5 film on down to medium format.
It has a 'loading' sleeve, and at this time I have adjusted the film 'holders' to fit the 3.25 x 4.25 film I am using, and have to cut.

Life is good... been using them for years...

You do realize that's not helpful to the OP since he wants something different from FR tanks right? Lol