Best m42 camera?

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Lucius

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What makes the perfect m42 SLR? There are quite a few variables, and different users will have different priorities: (1) size and weight, (2) shutter (cloth vs metal, max. and min. speed), (3) light metering and automation, (4) batteries (1.3 vs 1.5v.), (5) viewfinder (brightness, type of focussing screen), (6) general quality and reliability; perhaps a few others. I’ve only been into film photography for less than a year, so I’m presenting what I’ve discovered so far in order to find out what I’ve missed — please do share your thoughts. Perhaps this also might be useful to someone just starting out.

So, what are my priorities? First of all, I’m sticking to m42, at least for the time being. Second, I want a built-in light meter: I don’t trust myself to rely on the sunny 16 rule, and I find it too fiddly to use an external meter. Third, I want the auto-diaphragm function — except for preset lenses. Fourth, the camera must not be a brick — anything heavier than a Spotmatic must have something special to justify the weight. Fifth, reliability — but this is something I cannot say much about: my cameras mostly either work or don’t, and I usually can live with shutter speeds and the light meter being somewhat off (and I have yet to regret not replacing light seals); I don’t have enough statistics to give recommendations. In general, I want the camera to feel nice in hands and be easy to use.

For me, cameras fall into three main groups, requiring three different modes of shooting.

(1) The first (and most numerous) group is mechanical with stop-down metering. You need to press a lever to close the lens down and activate the meter; then you need to adjust shutter speed and lens aperture manually. This gives you the most control, but also takes the most effort. The clear bonus is that typically this kind of camera will accept almost any m42 lenses with auto-diaphragm.

The usual contenders in this group are pre-F Spotmatics and Fujicas ST701 and ST605. Spotmatics are overall great (and often come with nice genuine-leather ever-ready cases), but their stop-down levers are to my taste rather inferior to Fujicas’ stop-down buttons. Of the two Fujicas, ST605 has the brighter viewfinder with a split-prism focussing screen, but only has a top speed of 1/700 of a second. I might slightly prefer my ST701 over my SPII. Another contender in this category that could probably win is Bessaflex TM (which I don’t have) — but it’s far too expensive.

Early Chinons (CS, CX) and their numerous siblings and/or reincarnations under different brand names are often recommended; they are not bad, and in my limited experience their metal shutters are more reliable than cloth ones, but they are just far too heavy. There is, however, a late plastic model (Chinon CS-4) that is more compact and much lighter — it’d be good for travelling (I have one, but its top shutter speeds are broken).

I’ve read good things about Yashica TL Electro-X and Mamiya DTL, but both seem to be heavier than the Spotmatics — I’d like to try them out, but am not sure they have enough to justify the extra weight. Would appreciate any thoughts on these. I’m passing over Zenits (viewfinder too dim) and Prakticas (not solid enough).

A subgroup of their own is formed by Chinon CM-3 (more compact and lighter than the earlier models) and Cosina CSM (CSL, CSR). Unlike the typical stop-down SLR, they don’t have a separate lever but are stopped down by half-pressing the shutter release button, which is rather more convenient — I’m surprised there aren’t more cameras that do that (or are there?). I like the Chinon, and it could be my favourite in this category — but it has a ‘harsh’ film-advance lever and shutter-release button. The Cosina is tiny and light (and plastic), and with a nice viewfinder, but it has an electronically controlled shutter, which seems prone to breaking down.

(2) The second group are cameras with open-aperture metering: you can meter without stopping the lens down, but set speed and aperture manually. This makes the operation easier, but the downside is that open-aperture metering only works with modified m42 lenses, specific for each brand.

Again, the principal contenders are Spotmatic F and Fujica ST801 (and ST705). In fact, however, there is no competition (though ST801 is smaller, has a brighter viewfinder and a top speed of 1/2000 of a second), since the Spotmatic will only work properly with dedicated Takumars and the Fujicas with dedicated Fujinons (and both with Adaptalls with appropriate converters). Both S-M-C Takumars and EBC Fujinons are excellent lenses, so it is worth getting an SP-F and a ST801 to use with them. Both cameras can operate in stop-down mode with ‘generic’ m42 lenses. Does this mean that they supersede the simpler stop-down models? Not for me: the risk of forgetting to stop down a ‘generic’ lens is too high, I find a stop-down body a safer option.

Another camera with open-aperture metering is Olympus FTL, which came with a dedicated line of m42 Zuiko lenses. I’d love to have a working set, but both the camera and the lenses are rather rare and expensive.

Other companies too produced their versions of cameras with open-aperture metering (Mamiya DSX, Praktica VLC; am I missing anything out?), but they have the same shortcomings (and perhaps others).

(3) In the third group I put cameras with aperture-priority auto-exposure: you set aperture, the camera decides on shutter speed. Again, here we have Asahi and Fuji cameras: three (?) versions of Electro Spotmatic and Fujicas ST901 and AZ — which likewise only function properly with the same dedicated lenses. I got an AZ as a ‘lens cap’, and I’m debating whether an ES or an ST901 would really be worth it, given their limitations.

Here, again, Chinons are a class of their own: CE, CE-II and CE-3 Memotrons offer aperture-priority auto-exposure with any m42 lenses. They come close to being the ultimate m42 SLRs, but not quite. The CE-3 is about the weight of a Spotmatic, but has the same ‘tense’ (can’t think of a better word) operation as the CM-3 (and only a top speed of 1/1000 of a second). The earlier Memotrons are smoother and have a top speed of 1/2000 of a second (unsurpassed in an m42 body, as far as I’m aware), but are they heavy!

One last group I’ll briefly mention are non-m42 cameras that can take m42 lenses with adapters. K-mount bodies are often recommended, but as I pointed out at the beginning, I find auto-diaphragm too convenient a feature to trade it off by abandoning native m42 bodies. Apparently Mamiya Auto XTL and Fujica X series cameras can preserve the auto-diaphragm function with special adapters (any other models?), but they don’t seem to offer any serious advantages over native m42 bodies. As I also noted, there is an exception — preset lenses have no auto-diaphragm, so it seems like a good idea to use them on a small K-mount body in auto-exposure mode. The other day I got a Pentax ME Super, which is even smaller than Cosina CSM (the smallest m42 camera?), has auto-exposure and a top speed of 1/2000 of a second (haven’t tried it yet).

So, what’s my favourite m42 camera? I can’t decide: none is quite as perfect as to make all others redundant. If I want to shoot ‘generic’ m42 lenses in manual mode, I would reach for my SPII, ST701 or CM-3; I’d also like to have working copies of CSR and CS-4, which are smaller and lighter than the classic-era bodies, and I couldn’t resist a Bessaflex if I were offered one for a fraction of its current price. If I want to shoot in auto-exposure mode, I’d go for the CE-3 or, if top speed is of the essence, CE (or ME Super, with preset lenses). If I’m using S-M-C Takumars or EBC Fujinons, then the SP-F or ST801 are the go-to options; I’d also like to have a working FTL with a set of Zuiko lenses. There are of course other variables as well, for instance some of my cameras I know to have more accurate light meters — I would use these if shooting slides.

Does one actually need so many cameras? Well, no. A Spotmatic, an ST801, or a CE-3 in good working order would be enough for most uses. But it’s fun to try them out, and perhaps one day I’ll be able to slim down to just three or four bodies. In the meantime, I’d love to hear if you are aware of any interesting cameras I haven’t come across yet!
 

guangong

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You called it in your first line...a Spotmatic. Be aware that while all 42mm thread lenses can be fitted to camera, not all 42mm thread cameras have the same connection with camera for automatically stopping down the lens.
I once used Spotmatics, and just bought one for my grandson as a present. Also, excellent lenses that seem undervalued at present compared with some other camera brands. A Spotmatic is/was listed in classifieds for a good price.
 

markjwyatt

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My SLR kit is mainly M-42. My main cameras are Fujicas (ST 605N and ST 705w- preferred) and Prakticas (MTL5- mainly and LTL3). I have some Spotmatics and do like them, but for various reasons the Fujica 705w and the Praktica MTL5 are the best for me. The main reasons are that none of the Spotmatics I own have working meters, plus even if they did, they require Mercury batteries or Wein cells. The two Fujicas and the MTL5 use silver oxide batteries, which are available and last a long time. Also, I have an adapter for my DKL lenses, and it has interference in all but the Fujicas and Prakticas, plus it has relative apertures, so I need the built-in meters to work. I really have not used the adapter much because my Retina Reflex IV still works, but the adapter is my back-up.

EDIT: I have to add, that I recently bought a Spotmatic form a fine gentleman on this board, and on that one the meter appears to be working. It is the best Spotmatic I have at this point in terms of condition, etc. Another thing to watch for on Spotmatics is shutter capping, usually at 1/1000th of a second.
 
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ic-racer

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I had a Fujica in the 1970s, it was a very nice camera. I use mostly Fuji optics on my large format cameras these days.
 

ags2mikon

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I use m-42 cameras and I find that the spotmatic is my favorite of the bunch. The Takumar lenses are a treat to use. But I use a hand held meter and have learned to be at peace with it. The metal shuttered ones come next because I like the 1/125 flash sync speed for those times I use flash. They will also substitute for a hammer if needed. The Mamiya / Sekor m-42 lenses are really good shooters. The Meyer m-42 glass is also fun to use and some like the 100mm 2.8 and the 50mm 1.8 are really nice. Honestly you could collect 4 bags of these things and not have any duplicates. But don't do that.
 

markjwyatt

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...

Does one actually need so many cameras? Well, no. A Spotmatic, an ST801, or a CE-3 in good working order would be enough for most uses. But it’s fun to try them out, and perhaps one day I’ll be able to slim down to just three or four bodies. In the meantime, I’d love to hear if you are aware of any interesting cameras I haven’t come across yet!

Given the age of these cameras, and the number of lenses (which could mean a big investment), it makes sense to have plenty of extra bodies, especially given how cheap they have been (until recently at least).
 

beemermark

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I've been on a M42 buying spree lately, mostly from this forum. Pentax Spotmatics various models, Chinon CS and a Chinon SLR (now there's an original name), Mamiya/Sekor 1000DTL, and a Fujica ST705w. The ST705 takes silver oxide batteries, has open aperture focusing, top speed of 1/1500, and is an all around solid camera. The Fujica would win hands down except only Fujinon lens work for open aperture focusing. Seems the lenses are relatively rare (compared to other M42 lenses) and expensive (again compared to other M42 lenses). Using other M42 lenses requires a manipulation to press the depth of field button and shutter/ meter release at the same time. The Mamiya has impressive specs, silver oxide batteries, open aperture focusing, average and spot meter, works with Pentax and other lenses but probably the biggest, heaviest camera of the bunch. Focusing screen is rather dark and the camera is overall clunky. But still a good performer. Of all of them I think I like the Chinons the best. The CS and SLR are the same camera as far I can tell. The DOF lever is a stroke of genius and much better than the Pentax models. Unfortunately like my Pentaxes the Chinon takes a mercury battery.
 

Dali

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Best M42 camera? I vote for the Praktica with metal shutter. I kept a Spotmatic for less than a year, the time to realize it had nothing outstanding.
 

GRHazelton

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I have a Praktica LTL with its f1.8 lens. This Praktica has the best implementation of stop-down metering I've ever seen. The shutter release is on the right front panel at a 45 degree angle, just above it is a spring loaded key to stop down the lens and engage the meter. So one presses the key toward the camera, takes the reading, and the shutter release is just below. No fumbling with a slide switch on the left side of the camera body. Quick and almost intuitive.

Granted the VF is not as bright as a Spotmatic, and its fit and finish is hardly comparable, but the LTL was far cheaper with its ugly ever ready case and a really good 50mm f1.8 focusing down to just over 1 foot. IIRC the Praktica kit cost about $110 in the very early '70s.

BTW the film loading is far better than the usual regimen of sticking the tongue into a slot, catching a perforation on a "tooth" and hoping for the best. See this: https://www.butkus.org/chinon/praktica/praktica_ltl/praktica_ltl.htm Despite some disagreement from other reviewers I found the LTL's loading quick, easy, and virtually fool proof, if one follows the directions.

My LTL, despite having been idle for many years, side-tracked by my move to K mount cameras, seems ready to go with an fresh 1.5 cell. The metal shutter sounds good at low speeds, sync at 1/125. This despite several years of heavy usage and having been bounced on a sidewalk more than once. Don't ask.... The 50mm needs a CLA; the diaphragm is sluggish. I also have a Tamron 200mm f3.5 in M42, an excellent lens, and a Accura 35mm, nothing to write home about. The LTL would make a good backup for my Spotmatic F, unless the F's lenses would present a problem with the LTL's lens mount. Any thoughts on that?
 

markjwyatt

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,..The LTL would make a good backup for my Spotmatic F, unless the F's lenses would present a problem with the LTL's lens mount. Any thoughts on that?

You might lose some functionality with open metering, but that has never stopped me. My M-42 lenses are from a variety sources and time periods, and that is the fun of M-42. I have German lenses from the 50s-70s, Takumars, Fujinon, 3rd party (Vivitar, etc.). Mix and match. Sometimes I have to use full stop down metering. That is ok. The MTL5 and the Fujicas work fine with a lot of different lenses.
 

GRHazelton

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You might lose some functionality with open metering, but that has never stopped me. My M-42 lenses are from a variety sources and time periods, and that is the fun of M-42. I have German lenses from the 50s-70s, Takumars, Fujinon, 3rd party (Vivitar, etc.). Mix and match. Sometimes I have to use full stop down metering. That is ok. The MTL5 and the Fujicas work fine with a lot of different lenses.

Many thanks! That was what I'd felt, but it's good to have other thoughts.
George
 
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Lucius

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My SLR kit is mainly M-42. My main cameras are Fujicas (ST 605N and ST 705w- preferred) and Prakticas (MTL5- mainly and LTL3). I have some Spotmatics and do like them, but for various reasons the Fujica 705w and the Praktica MTL5 are the best for me. The main reasons are that none of the Spotmatics I own have working meters, plus even if they did, they require Mercury batteries or Wein cells. The two Fujicas and the MTL5 use silver oxide batteries, which are available and last a long time. Also, I have an adapter for my DKL lenses, and it has interference in all but the Fujicas and Prakticas, plus it has relative apertures, so I need the built-in meters to work. I really have not used the adapter much because my Retina Reflex IV still works, but the adapter is my back-up.

With my Spotmatics, I've used zinc-air (hearing-aid) batteries so far - they work fine but don't last long (about 6 months, even with little use), so I'll probably be switching over to silver-oxide (how much actually will they offset the meter?). On your Spotmatics, are the meters inaccurate, or simply don't switch on at all? I had a few different bodies with a dead meter, and then I read someone saying that the usual cause is bad contacts in the battery compartment, which can easily be cleaned with vinegar - I did that, and most of them came back to life, so might be worth trying.

Never heard about the DKL system!
 
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Lucius

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I use m-42 cameras and I find that the spotmatic is my favorite of the bunch. The Takumar lenses are a treat to use. But I use a hand held meter and have learned to be at peace with it. The metal shuttered ones come next because I like the 1/125 flash sync speed for those times I use flash. They will also substitute for a hammer if needed. The Mamiya / Sekor m-42 lenses are really good shooters. The Meyer m-42 glass is also fun to use and some like the 100mm 2.8 and the 50mm 1.8 are really nice. Honestly you could collect 4 bags of these things and not have any duplicates. But don't do that.

I do like Spotmatics a lot, not least because of the Takumars - it's always nice to use lenses with a native body. But their viewfinders aren't the very best, and their stop-down system is a bit fiddly (which of course isn't an issue if you use a hand-held meter). You might like Chinon CM-3 or CE-3 - they also have metal shutters, are quite solid, but about the same size and weight as a Spotmatic (perhaps even a touch smaller). I'm tempted by Mamiya lenses, but one has to draw a line somewhere... And the 100mm Meyer lens is high on my wish-list, but it seems scarce and on the expensive side (well, for a vintage m42 lens).
 
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Lucius

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Given the age of these cameras, and the number of lenses (which could mean a big investment), it makes sense to have plenty of extra bodies, especially given how cheap they have been (until recently at least).

That's a good point, and I'm not too penitent about having more than I absolutely need. But the downside of switching between several bodies is that I don't familiarise close enough with any one of them and need to keep focussed all the time on how each operates.
 

Rick A

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What I owned, bought a full kit when it was first introduced, and stayed brand loyal through the mid Y2k's.
 
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Lucius

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I've been on a M42 buying spree lately, mostly from this forum. Pentax Spotmatics various models, Chinon CS and a Chinon SLR (now there's an original name), Mamiya/Sekor 1000DTL, and a Fujica ST705w. The ST705 takes silver oxide batteries, has open aperture focusing, top speed of 1/1500, and is an all around solid camera. The Fujica would win hands down except only Fujinon lens work for open aperture focusing. Seems the lenses are relatively rare (compared to other M42 lenses) and expensive (again compared to other M42 lenses). Using other M42 lenses requires a manipulation to press the depth of field button and shutter/ meter release at the same time. The Mamiya has impressive specs, silver oxide batteries, open aperture focusing, average and spot meter, works with Pentax and other lenses but probably the biggest, heaviest camera of the bunch. Focusing screen is rather dark and the camera is overall clunky. But still a good performer. Of all of them I think I like the Chinons the best. The CS and SLR are the same camera as far I can tell. The DOF lever is a stroke of genius and much better than the Pentax models. Unfortunately like my Pentaxes the Chinon takes a mercury battery.

I've read good things about ST705(w) - it seems very much the ST801 that I have and like. Is the Mamiya even bigger than Chinon CS? If so, it's definitely not for me... I agree about the Chinon's stop-down lever - it's way more ergonomic than the Spotmatic's. I've remembered though that I also have a Chinon CX-II (it's the same body as CS) as a spare, and it stops down the same way as CM-3 - with the shutter-release button half-pressed, which is even better.
 
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Lucius

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I have a Praktica LTL with its f1.8 lens. This Praktica has the best implementation of stop-down metering I've ever seen. The shutter release is on the right front panel at a 45 degree angle, just above it is a spring loaded key to stop down the lens and engage the meter. So one presses the key toward the camera, takes the reading, and the shutter release is just below. No fumbling with a slide switch on the left side of the camera body. Quick and almost intuitive.

Granted the VF is not as bright as a Spotmatic, and its fit and finish is hardly comparable, but the LTL was far cheaper with its ugly ever ready case and a really good 50mm f1.8 focusing down to just over 1 foot. IIRC the Praktica kit cost about $110 in the very early '70s.

BTW the film loading is far better than the usual regimen of sticking the tongue into a slot, catching a perforation on a "tooth" and hoping for the best. See this: https://www.butkus.org/chinon/praktica/praktica_ltl/praktica_ltl.htm Despite some disagreement from other reviewers I found the LTL's loading quick, easy, and virtually fool proof, if one follows the directions.

My LTL, despite having been idle for many years, side-tracked by my move to K mount cameras, seems ready to go with an fresh 1.5 cell. The metal shutter sounds good at low speeds, sync at 1/125. This despite several years of heavy usage and having been bounced on a sidewalk more than once. Don't ask.... The 50mm needs a CLA; the diaphragm is sluggish. I also have a Tamron 200mm f3.5 in M42, an excellent lens, and a Accura 35mm, nothing to write home about. The LTL would make a good backup for my Spotmatic F, unless the F's lenses would present a problem with the LTL's lens mount. Any thoughts on that?

I have an MTL3 and an MTL5, which I bought together with (and because of) the lenses they had on (a Flektogon and a Pancolar). I agree about the shutter and stop-down lever location, but the latter just feels too flimsy! And I can't stand the sound of their film-advance levers - they sound as if something inside is broken (or about to be broken), which makes me anxious and distracts from photography (this is also one of the reasons I don't find Chinon CM-3 and CE-3 quite spectacular, though in the case of Prakticas the feeling is aggravated by their suboptimal build-quality).

I think Takumars that allow open-aperture-metering should work just fine on most other m42 bodies (unlike e.g. Mamiya CX lenses).
 
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Lucius

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What I owned, bought a full kit when it was first introduced, and stayed brand loyal through the mid Y2k's.

This is something to be envious about! I recently got lucky and bought an FTL with a 50mm 1.8 lens rather cheaply, but the camera's shutter is messed up, and it looks like there aren't that many repairmen around that would work on one...
 

Paul Howell

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My first 35mm SLR was a Spotmatic, bought it used in 1966, still have it and use it once a year, the meter is a bit off. Easy to use, no frills. I also have a Chinon CM3 and CE3, newer take standard battery, the CM3 takes a bit to get use having the diodes in the eyecup rather than in finder. The CE3 is open aperture metering with single pin lens, auto exposure is cleaver, as OP noted when the shutter is pressed the meter selects the the shutter speed as the lens is stopped down. There is also a very slow motor winder. There are a lot of Spotmatics on the market, folks who still service then, Chinon, Cosnia, Yashica are not as serviceable. I would get a standard Spot, the F is nice but limited to 2 pin lens. Other option is an early K mount with M42 adaptor. I have full range of Pentax M42 glass from 24 to 300, missing the 120 F4. Over the years I have or had a number of 3rd party lens, Fuji is as good as it get, Cosina and Rioch, and Chinon lens are really good as well.
 

gone

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I once owned a Zenit 12, which weighed around 640 grams. You can find cameras heavier and lighter. There are different models, I believe the 12XP was the latest and had LED viewfinder lights vs the earlier match needle. All are TTL metering.

Viewfinder coverage is small, maybe around 60%, but it's a such a nice camera in your hands. Get one w/ a Helois 44 lens and you will have image quality as good or better than almost anything made at the time, or since. I never had any pics that were bad due to the small viewfinder coverage because nearly always my subject is right in the center of the photo. Anything unwanted can be easily cropped, but that never came up. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

The best bet is to buy one and send it out for a CLA, or buy one that has been serviced. Mine made killer photos, that Helios lens is amazing. It has just the right amount of softness wide open for portraits, and 3D sharpness when stopped down a little.

RlRGlEQ.jpg

R3nLZJo.jpg
 
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Lucius

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My first 35mm SLR was a Spotmatic, bought it used in 1966, still have it and use it once a year, the meter is a bit off. Easy to use, no frills. I also have a Chinon CM3 and CE3, newer take standard battery, the CM3 takes a bit to get use having the diodes in the eyecup rather than in finder. The CE3 is open aperture metering with single pin lens, auto exposure is cleaver, as OP noted when the shutter is pressed the meter selects the the shutter speed as the lens is stopped down. There is also a very slow motor winder. There are a lot of Spotmatics on the market, folks who still service then, Chinon, Cosnia, Yashica are not as serviceable. I would get a standard Spot, the F is nice but limited to 2 pin lens. Other option is an early K mount with M42 adaptor. I have full range of Pentax M42 glass from 24 to 300, missing the 120 F4. Over the years I have or had a number of 3rd party lens, Fuji is as good as it get, Cosina and Rioch, and Chinon lens are really good as well.

Completely agree about Spot F: it's excellent for dedicated Takumars, but with 'generic' m42 lenses earlier models are more straightforward.
 

markjwyatt

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With my Spotmatics, I've used zinc-air (hearing-aid) batteries so far - they work fine but don't last long (about 6 months, even with little use), so I'll probably be switching over to silver-oxide (how much actually will they offset the meter?). On your Spotmatics, are the meters inaccurate, or simply don't switch on at all? I had a few different bodies with a dead meter, and then I read someone saying that the usual cause is bad contacts in the battery compartment, which can easily be cleaned with vinegar - I did that, and most of them came back to life, so might be worth trying.

Never heard about the DKL system!

I have heard the Spotmatics don't depend on voltage because of the type of bridge they use, so you may be fine. I will have to try some vinegar. Some of my Spotmatics respond, but got the wrong direction, some just don't respond. I am fine with hand held meters also.
 

markjwyatt

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I have an MTL3 and an MTL5, ...I can't stand the sound of their film-advance levers - they sound as if something inside is broken (or about to be broken), which makes me anxious and distracts from photography (this is also one of the reasons I don't find Chinon CM-3 and CE-3 quite spectacular, though in the case of Prakticas the feeling is aggravated by their suboptimal build-quality).

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My MTL5 is rougher winding than the LTL3. The LTL3 is actually really smooth. I suspect it could be just the specific examples, or it may be due to small design changes over the years. I kind of like the cammed winding of the Prakticas (as well as the idea of the vertical travellling metal shutter).
 
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