Best 9x12 folding plate camera to start

[Ian Grant]

I started a (there was a url link here which no longer exists). Someone mentions which ones fit a Voigtländer

Plate holders are adapted for film, they often come in sets of three and are listed on ebay regularly, but usually it's difficult to tell exactly what fit they are. The way they are made would allow for a small variation in glass plate thickness.

Ian

 

[Soeren]

Thanks Ian
Any good online recources on Platecameras?
Kind regards

 

[Ole]

Søren, I hope we will ba able to make one here. There's a lot of information on the web already, but much of it is scappered and hard to find.

Do a google search for "Tigin Cameras" - if it's still online, he's got one of the best lists. At least it's all in one place.

 

[Soeren]

Søren, I hope we will ba able to make one here. There's a lot of information on the web already, but much of it is scappered and hard to find.

Do a google search for "Tigin Cameras" - if it's still online, he's got one of the best lists. At least it's all in one place.

Ole, It seems he is not online any more, at least the page didn't work.
I found a page on woigtländer cameras. I'll post it later when I find it again.

Edit. Found it.
http://www.cinci.de/index.html

Kind regards

 

[Jerevan]

How about this one? http://www.ukcamera.com/classic_cameras/camindexe.html

 

[Ole]

Søren, http://www.ukcamera.com/classic_cameras/camindexe.html is a mirror of Tigin's old site.

 

[Ole]

Ah - Jerevan beat me to it.

 

[Jerevan]

Nah... your link is probably better, Ole.

 

[Ian Grant]

Søren, like Ole says info is very scattered, it's also fragmented by language. That's why it's so important to share our info here, but unless we get more people to share information we can't really progress.

Like you I found a few reference's to Tigin and some of his pages but not much of use. That included the link ole's just posted.

Ian

 

[Andreas]

A warning concerning plate holders: Never buy a Zeiss (or Ica) ideal without holders! I have one (a lovely 9x12 camera with interchangeable lenses). But it can only use the very special clip-on holders made for this camera and no others! It has taken me several years to collect the 10 usable holders I now have. People usually don't know what camera they fit, so you'll only get them when there's a photo thats clear enough to identify them. If you've got the holders, you'll never find a good camera at a reasonable price, so sell them to me!

 

[Ian Grant]

Could you photograph them and post the details on the 9x12 holder thread I started - its now sticky so at the top. (check if they are there already).

That's just the info we all need to collect. I discovered a thread about holders that fit KW Patent Etui's and by going to those pages found I have holders that fit, should add I'm in Turkey the holders are in the UK - and the camera's are being sent to the UK too.

It maybe we have to arrange holder swapping it's just like wife swapping only more invigo............. boring and normal.

Problem is Zeiss didn't use one standard. That's probably due to the way the Zeiss Ikon compay came together and amalgamated into one feuding whole.

Ian

 

[Andreas]

I'll try to post a photo, but am a little too busy right now. In the meantime, I can tell you that the Zeiss Ideal 9x12 holders have the number 726/7 stamped on their back. /7 is Zeiss's code for 9x12 size. they used /2 for 6,5x9 and /9 for 10x15. They used this system for the cameras too, with the exception that when it comes to cameras the 6,5x9 size is called /3. All this is taken from my reprint of the 1936 Zeiss Ikon catalogue (except that I own a Zeiss Ideal 250/7 9x12 with holders).
I also have som Ica holders that have the number 726/6 (also 9x12), so Ica obviously had another size-code system. The more common holders that fit Maximar and Trona (and the Miroflex SLR too) have the number 665/7 etc. Lastly, I can also mention that I have one nameless holder for the Ideal, obviously not original Zeiss since the construction is a bit different and unusual.

 

[Ian Grant]

Thanks, I've had some emails & PM's asking about Zeiss code numbers, so I gave a link tom some Zeiss catalogues.

Am I right in thinking that the Ideal takes different holders to the Maximar ? My guess is that the Ikon model range is derived from models from the companies who formed Zeiss Ikon, and the holder type differ for taht reason.

I may have some film holders to swap, I have a number that don't fit any of my 9x12 cameras,as well as a Rollex back. As far as I can see they fit Maximar's.

Ian

 

[Soeren]

I think I saw a post by Ole somewhere about the "plane of focus"? being different for Plates and sheetfilm in the adapted holders. Is this true?
Kind regards

 

[Ian Grant]

The plane of focus won't be any different because the plate or film emulsion rest against the same guides. The adaptor is there to ensure the film lies flat and is pressed against those guides.

Ian.

 

[Soeren]

Thanks Ian.
I was getting a bit woried

 

[Ole]

The plane of focus won't be any different because the plate or film emulsion rest against the same guides. The adaptor is there to ensure the film lies flat and is pressed against those guides.

Ian.

No Ian, the film emulsion will be 0.3mm farther back than the plate emulsion when using film sheath inserts.

The adapter is there to hold the film flat and in place, but the folded-over edges mean that the emulsion is offset by 0.3mm.

 

[Soeren]

So will I have to recalibrate the ground glass for what Ill be using in the camera?
Kind regards

 

[Mark Layne]

Thanks, I've had some emails & PM's asking about Zeiss code numbers, so I gave a link tom some Zeiss catalogues.

Am I right in thinking that the Ideal takes different holders to the Maximar ? My guess is that the Ikon model range is derived from models from the companies who formed Zeiss Ikon, and the holder type differ for taht reason.

I may have some film holders to swap, I have a number that don't fit any of my 9x12 cameras,as well as a Rollex back. As far as I can see they fit Maximar's.

Ian

Ian
The Ideal takes special clip on holders, the Maximar takes the common slide in holder that also fits Bergheils etc.
The Juwels, Favorites, Tropicas take special double sided clip on holders.
My 9x12 Juwel came with a Zeiss made adapter to take the common slide in holders.
There is also the American made Mica slide in back which takes standard 3.25x4.25 double sided American holders

Mark

 

[Mark Layne]

No Ian, the film emulsion will be 0.3mm farther back than the plate emulsion when using film sheath inserts.

The adapter is there to hold the film flat and in place, but the folded-over edges mean that the emulsion is offset by 0.3mm.

Most of the adapters I have are designed to let the film pop forward to the correct plane when the dark slide is removed, but I wouldn't recommend using any of these things without focusing.

If anyone knows of a 10x15 Favorit for sale please let me know. I have the folders and the film but not the camera to use it
Mark

 

[Ian Grant]

Not really necessary because at f4.5 a 135mm lens has a DOF of 0.9 metres focussed at 5 metres, and the 0.3 shift equates to 6 centimetres at 5 metres, so it's not particularly significant. (I used DOF calculations for 6x9 film). Once you stop down to f5.6 or f8 it's totally irrelevant.

If you were doing extreme close up's then the shift would be relevant.

Ian

 

[gandolfi]

just saw this thread..

Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!

as the image show, it came with the Heliar 13.5cm - 6 plateholders and 6 different filters/push on lenses. (yellow - green/yellow - orange, and a wide angle push on lens and a tele push on lens + a little diffusion disk...)

and all in the original, very well kept leather box.

fantastic condition for the price (all in all ca 200€ or 300$)

when looking at the cassettes, I noticed that 4 of then is with the 6x9 inlay - not 9x12.., but Stine has an ols Linhof technicaIII, and the old cassettes (inlays) fit perfectly in the Bergheil cassettes! Problem solved!

the camera is with interchangeble lenses, so I can't wait to try this out.
Of course with the Heliar, but also with my new Dynar and other small lenses..

I am a happy man today - and so are Stine (not a man though..) as the lens can be directly fitted on her Linhof

 

[JPD]

Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!

Nice Bergheil. I bought one last month, also in excellent condition.

 

[Soeren]

just saw this thread..

Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!

as the image show, it came with the Heliar 13.5cm - 6 plateholders and 6 different filters/push on lenses. (yellow - green/yellow - orange, and a wide angle push on lens and a tele push on lens + a little diffusion disk...)

and all in the original, very well kept leather box.

fantastic condition for the price (all in all ca 200€ or 300$)

when looking at the cassettes, I noticed that 4 of then is with the 6x9 inlay - not 9x12.., but Stine has an ols Linhof technicaIII, and the old cassettes (inlays) fit perfectly in the Bergheil cassettes! Problem solved!

the camera is with interchangeble lenses, so I can't wait to try this out.
Of course with the Heliar, but also with my new Dynar and other small lenses..

I am a happy man today - and so are Stine (not a man though..) as the lens can be directly fitted on her Linhof

Con gratulations Emil. So it was you who bought that one I envy you.
I should learn to keep my mouth shut Sorry for infecting you with that bug at the APUG meeting in Vrå. Thanks for a nice weekend BTW. Have you tried it out yet?
Kind regards

 

[P C Headland]

just saw this thread..

Today I just got a Bergheil 9x12 in a beautiful condition!!
.....

Nice looking camera! Can't wait to see some pictures from it.