"Best" 150mm for 4x5, any suggestions?

[carsten]

Dear Apuggers,

I shot mainly still life using mostly 1 sec. on tripod with a Schneider Xenar 5.6/150 signed Linhof, Copal 0.
I shot 4x5 negatives (160 portra VC) then I print huge enlargements (180cm x 270cm) in color; very few b/w.
I need a very very good 150mm lens.
Any suggestions?

Thank you and Happy New Year!

Carlo

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The Apo-Sironar S is considered by many to be the state of the art, but you could hardly go wrong with the comparable Apo-Symmar.

 

[Peter Schrager]

Ektar 152mm

You couldn't go wrong with an older Ektar 152mm. I love mine and it's taken many a great photograph for over 20 years now...also agree with David about the Apo-Sironar even though I don't own one.
Best, Peter

 

[Tom Stanworth]

If you are doing table top work, something designed for up close would make sense. 150 G claron would be small and cheap. A sironar S is also very good up close supposedly and would likely have a touch more contrast but me bigger and 2-3 times the price. A schneider 120 or 150 HM would also make sense but expensive.

 

[Frank Petronio]

Most 4x5 still life shooters tend to use longer lenses, and the Xenar you have been using would have softer edges than the current Rodenstock Sironar N or S or Schneider Symmar APO or Nikkor W large format lenses. Most commercial shooters were using 210-240-300mm versions with 4x5 prior to going digital and selling everything cheap on eBay ;-)

You might also consider other factors that describe lens quality, such as the look of the out of focus areas (bokeh) and contrast. Look at Jim Galli's recent 4x5 still lifes with a short old brass lens for instance...

 

[Davec101]

Hi Carlo

I have shot all my still life images with the Schneider Symmar 150mm APO on my 4x5 and thats it (see gallery). I have been happy with the quality of the lens. I am sure there are better versions of this type of lens, but i found it to be reasonably priced on the second hand market.

 

[photobackpacker]

I researched this topic a number of years ago. I found that the Rodenstock APO-Sironar-S was reputed to be one of the sharpest 150s out there. I finally managed to get one off of ebay and I have been very pleased with it. It has lived up to its reputation.

As a side benefit - it is extremely light weight and compact.

 

[Danpv]

I also like the Rodenstock 150 APO Sironar S.

You might be interested in what Kerry Thalmann wrote:

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/mid-rang.htm

 

[roteague]

Best is a relative term. IMO, the best 150mm 4x5 lens would be the Schneider Super Symmar XL 150mm F5.6, with a Copal 1. Price is around $2,139, and you need the Schnieder 4b Center Filter.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/phot...uper-symmar_xl/pdf/super-symmar_xl_56_150.pdf

http://www.schneideroptics.com/photography/large_format_lenses/super-symmar_xl/pdf/brochure.pdf

 

[lee]

I am using a 150mm G-Claron lens that I am happy with


lee\c

 

[Early Riser]

Dear Apuggers,

I shot mainly still life using mostly 1 sec. on tripod with a Schneider Xenar 5.6/150 signed Linhof, Copal 0.
I shot 4x5 negatives (160 portra VC) then I print huge enlargements (180cm x 270cm) in color; very few b/w.
I need a very very good 150mm lens.
Any suggestions?

Thank you and Happy New Year!

Carlo

Carlo, I shot advertising still life for many years and I tended to use these lenses for most of my 4x5 work, 180mm macro sironar (sinar version- if I wanted to add a little more dimension to the perspective) 210mm Sironar-S (sinar version, for bigger sized still life subjects), 240mm and 300mm APO Ronar (Sinar version and better suited for closer work than the 210mm) and the 300mm Macro Sironar (the lens with the reversable front and back elements which I used when I really wanted some distance between camera and subject and needed zero distortion or much greater lens movements than the Ronars would permit me).

I agree with another poster who said that 150mm was a little short for doing 4x5 still life, it's better suited to shooting larger objects like office equipment not table top because you'll get more distortion of the subject with the camera being close. I would use my 150mm or 180mm sironar-S lenses if the subject was larger, and for that usage either are excellent.

The Sironar-S lenses have been better optimized for close work that the Sironar-N lenses. If you can only use one lens I would recommend something in at least the 210mm range. The 210mm Sironar-S is a great all around lens, it is not a true macro but it 's so good for most macro work.

 

[roteague]

What do you think about the Schneider APO-Symmar 210mm F5.6 as a lens for doing still life work?

 

[carsten]

Thank you everybody!
I am not an advertising photographer, I think your answers worth more words by my side:
when I wrote I shot still life I meant I hardly take pictures of people.
The greatest part of my work is done in my room, sometimes the table top, sometimes the whole table, sometimes the whole room. But my pictures are quite simple and clean, no objects or shadows in the background, no out of focus effects, everything is quiet.
I like my Xenar, but since I am not really experienced with other lenses, I mean I am a "self made photographer", so I really do not know much about optics. I don't know what are the limits of my Xenar lens and I don't know if am right to use it for such huge color prints.


I have also a vintage 150 Zeiss on my Technika but I used it very little.

Thank you again
Carlo

 

[Ole]

In that case, an old Symmar 150mm f:5.6 might be a possibility - or the 240mm. They are close enough to being symmetrical to have good correction all through the range, and the elements can be swapped around for greater than 1:1. Anything in a shutter other than #1 can do this...

The coverage is better than a Xenar or other Tessar type, and the price is nice too

 

[Early Riser]

What do you think about the Schneider APO-Symmar 210mm F5.6 as a lens for doing still life work?

Roteague, I'm not sure if you were addressing me but I'll reply. The APO-Symmar, like the Rodenstock Sironar series, is a general purpose lens. That is it should work well in a wide range of reproduction ratios, most usually 1:10 to infinity is optimum. In some cases like the Sironar-S the performance at 1:5 or even 1:3 could be quite good. If you plan on shooting things nearly life size, that is around 1:1 ( the range being 1:3 to 3:1) you really need to use a Macro although process type lenses, like APO Ronars and G Clarons work well.

Personally I have not used the LF Schneiders, I do own several Schneiders for my Rolleiflexes and they are truly outstanding. The reputation that Schneider lenses have are exceptional. I have also heard that the 210 APO Symmar specifically is a great lens. There are little if any differences between Schneiders and Rodenstocks , except that maybe each company may have a certain lens or lenses that are outstanding.

For critical color product photography, that is where a client needs their PMS colored product exactly matched, I do suggest staying in the same family of lenses, and ones using the same type of coatings . i have found that you are pretty safe staying all German ( Schneider, Rodenstock, zeiss) or all Japanese lenses ( Nikon, Fuji) for critical color work. However if you have tested your color with a German lens, and then shoot it with a Japanese lens, there will be a subtle color change. My experience has been, and this goes back about a decade so things might have changed, that Japanese lenses tended towards cyan slightly and German lenses were more neutral.

 

[Early Riser]

Thank you everybody!
I am not an advertising photographer, I think your answers worth more words by my side:
when I wrote I shot still life I meant I hardly take pictures of people.
The greatest part of my work is done in my room, sometimes the table top, sometimes the whole table, sometimes the whole room. But my pictures are quite simple and clean, no objects or shadows in the background, no out of focus effects, everything is quiet.
I like my Xenar, but since I am not really experienced with other lenses, I mean I am a "self made photographer", so I really do not know much about optics. I don't know what are the limits of my Xenar lens and I don't know if am right to use it for such huge color prints.


I have also a vintage 150 Zeiss on my Technika but I used it very little.

Thank you again
Carlo

Carlo, if you are shooting large table top I'd still suggest a focal length of about 180mm to 210mm. For room size sets, a 150mm or a 135mm should work well. I own the 150mm Sironar-S and it is an exceptional lens, it also has a lot of coverage so if you need to do a lot of perspective or focus movements it will be very well suited. The xenar will not have nearly as much lens coverage.

 

[photobum]

Carsten, I use a Schneider Xenar 150 f/6.1 model quite often. It is light and very sharp for the landscapes that I use it for. They have very little movement and go soft at the edges fast. I only need a touch of tilt with these subjects. For what you shoot you might be better served with a lens that has more coverage. How much do you use tilts, shifts and swings. Keeping a whole room in focus I would think you would need the added coverage of a plasmat lens. When you can, a 210 would be nice for the still lifes.

In any case it's good not to fall into the trap of lens envy. A lot of the great photographs have been taken with lesser lenses. Shooting Air Force test targets have nothing to do with the real world. If the lens your using is giving the results you need, why fix it?

 

[John Simmons]

The APO Sironar S is the best IMO.

 

[eumenius]

I'm personally very pleased with my small old Fujinon 150/6.3 - excellent results in both colour and BW, very good colour, sharpness and contrast, plus all the movements I need. But of course the newer lenses can outperform it, maybe. Or maybe not

 

[df cardwell]

Hi Carlo

I think there are two issues which will determine your lens choice that haven't been touched upon.

First, you are making huge prints. How ? And what is the subject ?

Secondly, what is the viewing distance ? What do you want to see ?

It is probable that you are exceeding the performance of your 4x5 system, depending on the viewing distance and amount of detail you require the viewer to discern.

Film flatness in the holders, and the precision of the ground glass placement are as critical as the lens choice.

Most importantly, are you content with the results from your Xenar ? If so, go forward and don't worry. If not, you will have to be sure any loss of detail is not caused by the film holders, printmaking process, or focus accuracy before you can expect different lens to make a better print.


.

 

[removed account4]

hi carlo

i don't really have the best of anything
i have a 150 computar symmetrigon and i really can't complain.

good luck with your quest!

-john

 

[carsten]

Hi Carlo

I think there are two issues which will determine your lens choice that haven't been touched upon.

First, you are making huge prints. How ? And what is the subject ?

Secondly, what is the viewing distance ? What do you want to see ?

It is probable that you are exceeding the performance of your 4x5 system, depending on the viewing distance and amount of detail you require the viewer to discern.

Film flatness in the holders, and the precision of the ground glass placement are as critical as the lens choice.

Most importantly, are you content with the results from your Xenar ? If so, go forward and don't worry. If not, you will have to be sure any loss of detail is not caused by the film holders, printmaking process, or focus accuracy before you can expect different lens to make a better print.


.

Well, I print my photos with the help of a professional lab.
They are too big for my devices, I print using Kodak Professional paper, color and matt, the only that is imported here in Europe. The rolls are 182 cm high.
The distance between me and the subject is about from 3,5 inches to 20 inches. I do not need big amount of details on the background, because, in general my background is just a white wall. I need a perfect sharpness of the subject because of the big enlargements.

 

[df cardwell]

The distance between me and the subject is about from 3,5 inches to 20 inches. I do not need big amount of details on the background, because, in general my background is just a white wall. I need a perfect sharpness of the subject because of the big enlargements.

I meant to ask, how close does the Viewer stand from the picture when they are exhibited ?

 

[carsten]

I meant to ask, how close does the Viewer stand from the picture when they are exhibited ?

Uh, I apologize for my bad english...
The viewer has his nose stuck to my print.

 

[df cardwell]

Uh, I apologize for my bad english...
The viewer has his nose stuck to my print.

Your english is excellent !

If detail is important, and your viewers are CLOSE,
you will see the difference if you use the newest lens from Schneider or Rodenstock. It is time to visit your dealer. You should be able to borrow or rent a lens to see if it makes a difference.

You are working far beyond the design of the 'system',
and you will need to examine every component.

It sounds exciting. Let us know how it works !

.