Beginner Paper

[ivanlow]

Hi, I'll be starting to print on my own, was looking into Ilford paper, they are not really low budget paper. I'm not complaining, just don't want get expensive paper before I learn how to print. What will be a good paper to start for beginner like me? If there are other brands please let me know.


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[voort340]

Hi, I very much like Foma paper. It reasonably priced an really good.

 

[ivanlow]

Thank you voort340.


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[Roger Cole]

Freestyle's Arista brand is most likely re-branded Foma. 100 sheets of 8x10 is $65.43 at Freestyle, versus 100 sheets of Foma at B&H for $87.99, but B&H is offering free shipping so you have to take that into account.

 

[LarsAC]

I started with PE / RC paper in 5x7 which can be bought reasonably cheap from several brands. I actually used MCP by Adox.

Make sure you use fresh paper and suitable safelights.

Lars

 

[R.Gould]

I would start printing on RC paper, Kentmere, made by Harman, is a very good paper, and reasonably priced. Learn to print on RC then try FB paper, a lot of printers find RC to be very good indeed, personally I use both, for exhibition and sales I always print on FB paper, for everyday printing I use RC, in my case Kentmere VC Select

 

[David Allen]

It depends upon where you live.

For example, Foma paper in Berlin is considerably cheaper than Ilford and the FOMA Fomabrom Variant 111 that I use as my standard paper is excellent. Add this to the fact that, for a box of 50 sheets of 30 x 40cm, the Foma is half the price of ILFORD Multigrade FB Classic and you can use a top grade paper for learning.

I would personally suggest that learning on poor quality paper will hinder your learning (for example some cheap brands of multigrade RC paper made for students, etc do not give a full range of contrast grades). Use the best paper you can afford and follow best developing practice from day one:

• Always develop fibre-based paper for at least 3 minutes.
• Never 'pull' prints (this is taking them out of the developer before they are fully developed).
• Always use fresh chemicals.
• Test that your safelights are truly safe for the paper that you are using.
• Always dry your test prints (old microwave or hair drier will do the job quickly) before deciding on the correct exposure (this is because fibre-based prints always are darker when they are dry).
• Always assess your dried test prints with a light level that is similar to where you might display them (i.e most homes in Europe have low light levels due to the use of energy efficient bulbs, galleries with older lighting systems have yellower tungsten bulbs that are much brighter than illumination in the home and newly opened galleriies tend now to have very bright neutral LED spotlights).

Good luck with learning to print - it is a great experience and helps all areas of your photographic development.
Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

 

[pdeeh]

some cheap brands of multigrade RC paper made for students, etc do not give a full range of contrast grades).

Can I suggest you name them, and offer some evidence for your claim?

Otherwise it appears to be both unhelpful (as the OP won't know what to avoid), and no more than an unsubstantiated personal opinion (and there there are already far too many of those floating about)

 

[John51]

Rather than buy a box of 100 10x8, I'd suggest for starting off, getting 3 or 4 packs of 25 in small sizes in different makes and finishes.

Not the best way to get good quick but it will help to satisfy the 'what if?' thoughts that we can all have. Whatever you like the best can then be bought in larger sizes and quantity.

 

[NedL]

Ilford also sells boxes of 25 sheets with "10 extra sheets", which isn't a bad deal if you can find it. I've only seen them in 8x10 size.

The 250 sheet boxes of Adorama "house brand" are low cost per sheet.

 

[Roger Cole]

It depends upon where you live.

For example, Foma paper in Berlin is considerably cheaper than Ilford and the FOMA Fomabrom Variant 111 that I use as my standard paper is excellent. Add this to the fact that, for a box of 50 sheets of 30 x 40cm, the Foma is half the price of ILFORD Multigrade FB Classic and you can use a top grade paper for learning.

I would personally suggest that learning on poor quality paper will hinder your learning (for example some cheap brands of multigrade RC paper made for students, etc do not give a full range of contrast grades). Use the best paper you can afford and follow best developing practice from day one:
Good luck with learning to print - it is a great experience and helps all areas of your photographic development.
Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Can I suggest you name them, and offer some evidence for your claim?

Otherwise it appears to be both unhelpful (as the OP won't know what to avoid), and no more than an unsubstantiated personal opinion (and there there are already far too many of those floating about)

The other tips are fine, but WRT inexpensive papers I agree - I doubt very much that it's true, because house branded papers are just re-branded stuff made by the same few manufacturers and, even if it is true as far as not providing the same range of contrast, that's ok. You should rarely if ever need the softest or hardest grade the paper can produce anyway. If you do you are rescuing a poorly exposed or developed negative. Learn to expose and develop properly and consistently and you should rarely need to deviate more than a grade of contrast either way.

 

[David Allen]

Can I suggest you name them, and offer some evidence for your claim?

Otherwise it appears to be both unhelpful (as the OP won't know what to avoid), and no more than an unsubstantiated personal opinion (and there there are already far too many of those floating about)

I would have thought that my limited contributions to this site have demonstrated that, when I offer an opinion, it is based on personal experience. Also, I stated that the OP should use the very best materials that he/she can afford - thereby implying one should avoid cheaper materials.

At your request I would give as an example, ADOX Easy Print RC 311 as this does not (having tried it with students who bring it along because it is cheap) deliver the full range of grades as claimed. Furthermore, it has a tendency to move very quickly towards an overall grey appearance (fine if that suits your personal requirements) and develops so fast as to encourage pulling the prints.

Far more helpful, I would suggest, were my comments about using good materials from the beginning and a few tips about best practice in terms of developing prints.

Too many people suggest (and as was implied by the OPs original post) that by using cheap paper one can progress at less cost. This is, in my 40 years of teaching photography, a total fallacy. By using the best materials you can afford, you can move swiftly towards finding your own style of printing with the materials that best support you in your journey.

You will also note that I started my post with a question about where the OP lived. Why? - well in Berlin you can buy the excellent FOMA Fomabrom Variant 111 for half the price of Ilford's equivalent. In the UK the difference is a mere £9 - £13.

Bests and looking forward to your own tips to help the OP move forward,

David.
www.dsallen.de

 

[Bob Carnie]

I agree with David

Use the best paper available and learn on it.

Bob

 

[cliveh]

I would also agree with David about this.

 

[removed account4]

you might look into photo warehouse / ultra fine
they are an apug sponsor as well
and they sell good papers ( and film! ) at
very affordable prices.
i bought paper from them, the last i bought it,
to print a large portfolio ... and do do a printing-gig
500sheet box of rc paper cost a fraction of what it cost elsewhere
and i got 50sheet boxes of 11x14 FB the same, very affordable ...
and they had a flat rate, no matter how much it weighed 2 lbs or 50lbs it was something
like 10$ to ship .. again, not sure if the prices are the same as when i bought from them last
but they were a good deal for the beginner or experienced photographer !

 

[AgX]

John, the OP is situated in Singapore.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Guys, I know you wouldn't touch RC paper with a barge pole, but let's get realistic. IMHO, someone who is just starting out wet printing should better use RC paper. It is much easier to properly process and wash an RC print and it always lays flat. It is also a lot cheaper and whoever wants to learn, will only learn through mistakes. These mistakes can be expensive (FB), or not (RC). And no, a badly washed FB print isn't more archival than an RC print. I also agree with Roger Cole with regards to contrast grades. The extremes of contrast grades are normally only used when you want to rescue a ruined negative.

Rather than buy a box of 100 10x8, I'd suggest for starting off, getting 3 or 4 packs of 25 in small sizes in different makes and finishes.

Not the best way to get good quick but it will help to satisfy the 'what if?' thoughts that we can all have. Whatever you like the best can then be bought in larger sizes and quantity.

I'd say get a pack of 25 8x10 for contact prints and some packs of 100 5x7. Yes, different finishes would be a good idea. Contact prints are a valuable tool, but don't try to make them look good. I use a grade 2 filter and expose for the minimum time for maximum black through the clear base between frames. This way you can determine if you under-overexpose, if your develop your film too flat - hard etc.

If you find that the cheapest paper is Fomaspeed Variant, then use it. It's nice.

 

[cliveh]

Guys, I know you wouldn't touch RC paper with a barge pole, but let's get realistic. IMHO, someone who is just starting out wet printing should better use RC paper. It is much easier to properly process and wash an RC print and it always lays flat. It is also a lot cheaper and whoever wants to learn, will only learn through mistakes. These mistakes can be expensive (FB), or not (RC). And no, a badly washed FB print isn't more archival than an RC print. I also agree with Roger Cole with regards to contrast grades. The extremes of contrast grades are normally only used when you want to rescue a ruined negative.



I'd say get a pack of 25 8x10 for contact prints and some packs of 100 5x7. Yes, different finishes would be a good idea. Contact prints are a valuable tool, but don't try to make them look good. I use a grade 2 filter and expose for the minimum time for maximum black through the clear base between frames. This way you can determine if you under-overexpose, if your develop your film too flat - hard etc.

If you find that the cheapest paper is Fomaspeed Variant, then use it. It's nice.

I think RC paper is great, but the point is don't use the cheap versions.

 

[removed account4]

John, the OP is situated in Singapore.

ohwell

nevermind then

 

[pdeeh]

I would have thought that my limited contributions to this site have demonstrated that, when I offer an opinion, it is based on personal experience. Also, I stated that the OP should use the very best materials that he/she can afford - thereby implying one should avoid cheaper materials.

At your request I would give as an example, ADOX Easy Print RC 311 as this does not (having tried it with students who bring it along because it is cheap) deliver the full range of grades as claimed. Furthermore, it has a tendency to move very quickly towards an overall grey appearance (fine if that suits your personal requirements) and develops so fast as to encourage pulling the prints.

Far more helpful, I would suggest, were my comments about using good materials from the beginning and a few tips about best practice in terms of developing prints.

Too many people suggest (and as was implied by the OPs original post) that by using cheap paper one can progress at less cost. This is, in my 40 years of teaching photography, a total fallacy. By using the best materials you can afford, you can move swiftly towards finding your own style of printing with the materials that best support you in your journey.

You will also note that I started my post with a question about where the OP lived. Why? - well in Berlin you can buy the excellent FOMA Fomabrom Variant 111 for half the price of Ilford's equivalent. In the UK the difference is a mere £9 - £13.

Bests and looking forward to your own tips to help the OP move forward,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Oh good lord David don't be so pompous.

Your personal experience and opinion are worth as much as anyone else's, and for all anyone knows you might have been teaching crap for 40 years.

I have absolutely no doubt that someone else (perhaps with 40 years of experience teaching photography) could come along and tell us what a marvellous paper Adox 311 is and produce shots to prove it.

I haven't a single bit of advice to offer about paper. I'm a worse than mediocre printer with very little experience and my advice would be worth shit to the OP.

However I would suggest to the OP that he might be well advised to note the extreme variety of suggestions on offer, and take them all with a grain of salt until he has built sufficient personal experience of darkroom work to pick the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Roger Cole]

The cheapest paper I have used is the Arista that I think is Foma. It's not bad though I like Ilford better. I agree about RC. If there are issues other than limited contrast range with some cheap papers then that's a different matter.


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[mooseontheloose]

Hi, I'll be starting to print on my own, was looking into Ilford paper, they are not really low budget paper. I'm not complaining, just don't want get expensive paper before I learn how to print. What will be a good paper to start for beginner like me? If there are other brands please let me know.


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What papers are available to you locally? Do you need to order online?

I love Ilford and Foma papers but they are extremely expensive here in Japan, whereas the Fuji papers are quite cheap (no surprise there). I mostly use the Fujibro papers (all RC) for contact prints, work prints, and the postcard exchange. They dry extremely flat and have a good range of tones.

As others have said, it might be worth buying a few smaller packs of 25 sheets of different brands and finishes to see what you like, before committing to one brand and learning on that.

When I was learning to print I used a variety of different papers (mostly Adox and Ilford I think - Kodak had just killed their papers) and it certainly didn't hurt the learning process. It also allowed me to figure out what was important to me as a photographer, and what images were worth fighting for the darkroom - important when I made the move to printing on fibre papers. Anyway...just my two cents.

 

[ic-racer]

1) Don't waste your time on expired paper; all your pictures will look like crap, even when you get things correct.
2) Contrast control is just as important as exposure. You won't get good results without some means of controlling printing contrast. I'd recommend the Ilford filters and matching paper.

 

[ivanlow]

Hi Mooseontheloose,

At Singapore I only saw Ilford. Film photography is not very popular here.
Online I cannot find Fujibro, is there a website I can check it out that ship to Singapore?

What papers are available to you locally? Do you need to order online?

I love Ilford and Foma papers but they are extremely expensive here in Japan, whereas the Fuji papers are quite cheap (no surprise there). I mostly use the Fujibro papers (all RC) for contact prints, work prints, and the postcard exchange. They dry extremely flat and have a good range of tones.

As others have said, it might be worth buying a few smaller packs of 25 sheets of different brands and finishes to see what you like, before committing to one brand and learning on that.

When I was learning to print I used a variety of different papers (mostly Adox and Ilford I think - Kodak had just killed their papers) and it certainly didn't hurt the learning process. It also allowed me to figure out what was important to me as a photographer, and what images were worth fighting for the darkroom - important when I made the move to printing on fibre papers. Anyway...just my two cents.

 

[ivanlow]

Hi Jnanian,

You mention of Photo Warehouse / Ultra Fine, is there a link I can go check it out?

you might look into photo warehouse / ultra fine
they are an apug sponsor as well
and they sell good papers ( and film! ) at
very affordable prices.
i bought paper from them, the last i bought it,
to print a large portfolio ... and do do a printing-gig
500sheet box of rc paper cost a fraction of what it cost elsewhere
and i got 50sheet boxes of 11x14 FB the same, very affordable ...
and they had a flat rate, no matter how much it weighed 2 lbs or 50lbs it was something
like 10$ to ship .. again, not sure if the prices are the same as when i bought from them last
but they were a good deal for the beginner or experienced photographer !