Beginner looking at simple large format cameras. (Box? Fixed lens?)

[Donald Qualls]

Large Format forum has specification charts for lenses. It has the image circle for each lens as well for comparison. That might help you.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/

I didn't find an Angulon of any focal length shorter than 120 mm on that chart, nor on the linked one for "older lenses" -- but every other reference I've seen makes it appear the 90 mm f/6.8 Angulon covers 4x5 with no margin, but must be stopped down well to compensate for field curvature.

 

[Candlejack]

Are there ways to used certain cameras on a 4x5 to get vignetting and ye ol timey effects? Im guessing those would be ones without complete coverage.

Do the old brass latern lens fits the lens boards on graflex?

 

[BrianShaw]

I didn't find an Angulon of any focal length shorter than 120 mm on that chart, nor on the linked one for "older lenses" -- but every other reference I've seen makes it appear the 90 mm f/6.8 Angulon covers 4x5 with no margin, but must be stopped down well to compensate for field curvature.

This is clipped from a 1937 Schneider brochure for their Angulon lens:

 

[grat]

According to the Schneider wayback, the f/6.8 90mm angulon covers 154mm @ f/16.

So just a hair short of the 162mm required for 4x5.

 

[grat]

Are there ways to used certain cameras on a 4x5 to get vignetting and ye ol timey effects? Im guessing those would be ones without complete coverage.

Do the old brass latern lens fits the lens boards on graflex?

Sort of-- which is to say, they can be mounted on a board that will fit on a graflex (usually). The problem is the shutter-- or the lack of one.

Speed Graphics have a focal plane shutter that makes older barrel lenses easier to use.

 

[Donald Qualls]

@BrianShaw Okay, so 7 1/6 inch is about 179.4 mm -- which is almost half an inch bigger than the 4x5 diagonal.

 

[Donald Qualls]

According to the Schneider wayback, the f/6.8 90mm angulon covers 154mm @ f/16.

Typical -- even Schneider can't decide what the coverage is.

 

[BrianShaw]

I expect that you've seen these, but in case you haven't:

https://web.hevanet.com/cperez/test/AngSSXL.html

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/wide.htm

 

[Dan Fromm]

Are there ways to used certain cameras on a 4x5 to get vignetting and ye ol timey effects? Im guessing those would be ones without complete coverage.

Do the old brass latern lens fits the lens boards on graflex?

Vignetting? Practice lens abuse, use a lens that won't cover the format.

"ye ol timey effects?" Futz around with film and processing, try aging b/w prints artificially. Old lenses won't do.

"graflex?" Graflex Inc.'s, also predecessors' and successors', nomenclature confuses everyone. To avoid passing the confusion on, please say "Graphic" when you mean a press camera made by Graflex and say "Graflex" when you mean a SLR mabe by Graflex.

With enough money and effort, nearly any plausible lens can be mounted on a Graphic lens board. Putting any old lens on a Graflex isn't always possible. Too short a focal length and the lens won't clear the mirror, too long a focal length can't be focused to infinity.

 

[BrianShaw]

Vignetting? Practice lens abuse, use a lens that won't cover the format.

"ye ol timey effects?" Futz around with film and processing, try aging b/w prints artificially. Old lenses won't do.

"graflex?" Graflex Inc.'s, also predecessors' and successors', nomenclature confuses everyone. To avoid passing the confusion on, please say "Graphic" when you mean a press camera made by Graflex and say "Graflex" when you mean a SLR mabe by Graflex.

With enough money and effort, nearly any plausible lens can be mounted on a Graphic lens board. Putting any old lens on a Graflex isn't always possible. Too short a focal length and the lens won't clear the mirror, too long a focal length can't be focused to infinity.

Since you've been blocked (ignored, I suppose he/she meant) by the OP, Dan, I'll quote you since this is all great advise that really needs to be readed and heeded!

 

[Donald Qualls]

I think I see what's happening -- there are significant differences in the coverage, build quality, and image quality of the 90/6.8 Angulon over its production run of 35+ years, from pre-War to the 1970s.

 

[BrianShaw]

I think I see what's happening -- there are significant differences in the coverage, build quality, and image quality of the 90/6.8 Angulon over its production run of 35+ years, from pre-War to the 1970s.

… and quite varied expectations of performance over the years, many associated with usage context changes.

 

[GKC]

The GRAPHICS are utilitarian professional cameras that offer all of the functionality required for basic LF photography.

Other cameras offer different, or additional, functionality that serve other LF needs.

A decent Crown Graphic would be like shooting a Leica compared to a box camera and can certainly handle most of the jobs your asking of it..
Prices still aren't too bad f you shop around
Time to get off the porch and run with the big dogs!

 

[MattKing]

Time to get off the porch and run with the big dogs!

You will, of course, need an appropriate hat!

 

[Pioneer]

I have been using a Schneider Angulon 90/6.8 for several years on 4x5. It will be shocked to learn it can't cover the format.

 

[Candlejack]

A decent Crown Graphic would be like shooting a Leica compared to a box camera and can certainly handle most of the jobs your asking of it..
Prices still aren't too bad f you shop around
Time to get off the porch and run with the big dogs!

Someone on here offered me a crown to buy. It should be here thursday!!

Now to find a hat!

 

[Mick Fagan]

I have been using a Schneider Angulon 90/6.8 for several years on 4x5. It will be shocked to learn it can't cover the format.
View attachment 288041

I'm complete agreement with Dan on this.

I have a roughly 1952 build Angulon f/6.8/90 Linhof version in a Synchro-Compur shutter mounted onto a Linhof Technika recessed board.

As Bob S has mentioned earlier on in this thread, it is designed for the 9x12cm format, but it does manage to cover the 4x5" format.

I've used this 90mm lens for my 4x5" photography for around 14 years, apart from having little to no room for movements, it has always performed very well. I have since replaced it, but it is kept for the times when I need an absolute light weight kit for my ever decreasing backpacking trips.

For a box camera construction with no movement, this lens would certainly work and from my experience, work very well. They are certainly affordable, especially in the USA.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Now to find a hat!

BTW, it doesn't have to be a Weegee style fedora -- a Walter White pattern porkpie will work, too. I'd tend to avoid the ten gallon Stetsons, however -- they might get in frame with a 90mm on 4x5...

 

[removed account4]

BTW, it doesn't have to be a Weegee style fedora -- a Walter White pattern porkpie will work, too. I'd tend to avoid the ten gallon Stetsons, however -- they might get in frame with a 90mm on 4x5...

yea. but you wouldn't need a dark cloth if you were wearing a 10 gallon!

 

[Donald Qualls]

yea. but you wouldn't need a dark cloth if you were wearing a 10 gallon!

With a 90mm on a Speed, you'd just calibrate the RF and not even need the ground glass.

 

[grat]

My statement of 162mm is based on the actual size of the film being 4x5" (or ~ 102mm x 127mm). But that ignores the frame of the film holder.

Since a typical 4x5 holder has a "window" of 96.8mm x 120.4mm (at least mine does), the actual diagonal if you want to be really picky is:

(96.82 + 120.42)1/2 = ~ 154.5mm

Given that it's a 1.25 aspect ratio, that means that yes, the 154mm image circle will cover the entire exposed area of a 4x5 sheet of film. Give or take a few photons.

... interestingly, the Grafmatic loses 1mm compared to a Fidelity on the short axis, but is several mm longer on the long axis-- meaning it's diagonal is slightly larger. It also means that you don't really lose any space to the number wheel.