Beginner looking at simple large format cameras. (Box? Fixed lens?)

Donald Qualls · Oct 7, 2021

Bob S said:
Pinholes will develop over time, use, storage conditions, etc.. there is no “permanent” bellows.

While true, the issue with the Aletta was that the (nearly new) bellows was slightly translucent due to material choices. At the time I had it (around 2005) the Aletta was a fairly fresh design, and I knew the bellows had this problem when I got the camera. If I'd liked it, it wouldn't have been terribly difficult to make a replacement bellows (no taper, square section, big enough to get a hand into -- as easy as they get), and minimizing time with the dark slide out limited the fogging. But with poor lock down and no mechanism for fine focus, I could see the limitations after only a couple film sheets, so I traded it on to get the Graphic View.

With well made bellows (those with actual leather) good storage and very minimal maintenance can keep them light tight for more than a century. Seems good enough to just keep a (mental?) list of the ones that are of lesser quality, like Ansco 6x6 folders...

Dan Fromm · Oct 7, 2021

Donald, Pacemaker Graphics' bellows were made from a synthetic material. My oldest Pacemakers' bellows, made in the 1940s, are still good.

A while ago I made a bag bellows for a hybrid Cambo -- 2x3 front standard, 4x5 rear -- from wet suit material. The stuff appears to be opaque but isn't. With good dark slide discipline, as you suggested, not a problem.

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Help us help you… what is your budget? What LF accessories do you already have?

Both Graflex Graphics and Calumet/Cambo monorails can be found at decent price if one is diligent and patient shopper. Probably others, like a Toyo, also.

Thank you for your help. I currently have 4 standard 4x5 film holders. A pretty basic tripod that im using for lensless box pinhole cameras. A darkroom changing bag and the taco method for developing sheet film.
Im currently making cyanotype and van dyke contact prints.

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

jnantz said:
I hate to suggest this because I have never used one but some people love these things. ...
maybe you should look into a polaroid conversion kit ( they are not too expensive ) to convert a
polaroid 110/110b to a 4x5 to take modern film holders. it would cost less than a traditional 4x5 camera
it would be portable and easy to use ( from what I understand the range finders are a synch to focus ), and you
wouldn't have to deal with moth eaten bellows, parts for 100 year old cameras, screwy stuff that always goes wrong
you'd have a somewhat modern camera and a somewhat modern lens... that you can stick in your jacket pocket and take anywhere, instead of some big clunky camera to deal with.
WILLIAM LITTMAN and I wish I could remember the guy in OZ used to make these cameras and sell them for $$
now the conversion kits are on ebay for 100$ or so... big difference between spending 200clams or 100,000 for a LITTMANN Special!

I was gifted two polaroid land camera colorpack IIs, but I wasnt able to find anything about converting them.

removed account4 · Oct 7, 2021

Candlejack said:
I was gifted two polaroid land camera colorpack IIs, but I wasnt able to find anything about converting them.

some can be converted some can't
I think they are the 110 110b / pathfinder models that are converted, not sure but it might be something to look into
if you type polaroid conversion in ebooo you will see what I am talking about.

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

grat said:
Blocking Dan would be a mistake. As would taking his phrasing personally.

Stupid simple would be a WillTravel 4x5 (print it yourself, or check eBay). Alternatively might be the Chroma Snapshot.

The cheapest way into LF is still going to be a recent model crown graphic with a Graflok back (two chrome sliders). It's compact, rugged, reasonably easy to find parts, and if it's the pacemaker model, it has some movements-- but it's not fantastic for architectural.

Horseman, Toyo, Wista, Linhof-- they all made metal-body field cameras, and they go for varying prices depending on features, condition, etc.

I appreciate the advice, but too many people in my life have acted like that or talked like that. Its not taking it personal, Im just choosing not to interact with people of that.. caliber. If he is the source of ultimate knowledge then I can tell you, many more people will be turned off lol. Im looking at donating to this site.. and if thats what I have to look foward to.. ill keep my money . But everyone else has been very nice.

Ive seen the will travel pop up some. The thing is they seem to make it for a given lenses focal length. I dont have a lens yet, and from what i understand a given focal length for a lens might be a suggestion and not a given?

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

Paul Howell said:
On the really cheap side are New View and Brand. These are sorta of interesting, not a monorail, not a true flat bed, made after WWII with aluminum frames made from recycled WWII airplanes that were melted down in the late 40s. I bought a Brand, found it at swap meet in 1986, paid like $50 for it with pretty good lens. It has good movements, my version is not set as a press Camera, not even sure how the rangefinder would work. It has pretty good movements, it is light, the handle makes it easy to carry it in the field. The image is not of my camera but a press version of the same camera.

aluminium

Gaw! If I could find something like that complete for sub $200 I would bite the bullet!

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

I just got a subscription btw. Since yall are so helpful !

Paul Howell · Oct 7, 2021

Candlejack said:
Gaw! If I could find something like that complete for sub $200 I would bite the bullet!

They do show up on ebay from time to time, need to dig to find them, often not listed under brand or new view.

BrianShaw · Oct 7, 2021

Candlejack said:
Gaw! If I could find something like that complete for sub $200 I would bite the bullet!

Okay, so that’s your budget? Gonna be tough but not impossible. A bigger budget would be more realistic for gear that’s actually going to work for you.

Donald Qualls · Oct 7, 2021

You can probably get a Crown or Busch Pressman for that under-$200 figure.

removed account4 · Oct 7, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Okay, so that’s your budget? Gonna be tough but not impossible. A bigger budget would be more realistic for gear that’s actually going to work for you.

+1

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Okay, so that’s your budget? Gonna be tough but not impossible. A bigger budget would be more realistic for gear that’s actually going to work for you.

Yea, I think my budget is based on forum posts from a few years ago. It seems as those prices are skyrocketing or people think they have gold? Or it is going for the price of gold because it is gold .

Im more in line with a go out have fun and play more on the alt print side of things.

I didnt go printer route for alt processes as I didnt like the boxy pixelated grain that was taking place.

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

jnantz said:
+1

With the budget.. thats why i was looking at the old box/plate cameras lmao.

If my budget is unreasonable. Yall let me know, I can sit back for a while think on it and save up.

BrianShaw · Oct 7, 2021

Photography, especially LF, has never been inexpensive. Even a decade ago I would have suggested that 200$ is pretty skimpy. But who knows….

About a decade ago I found a poorly advertised Speed Graphic on eBay for $25+25 shipping. Looked okay but a total risk. It arrive quite usable. After 5 years the shutter needed service… 100$. No big deal, considering.

But that’s what to expect from the bargain-basement… a high probability that additional service will be needed for a functional camera… so if funds are extremely limited this approach could be self-limiting.

There are a couple of Toyo on ebay that you can get within that budget, but no lens. More $$ to get workable rig. I didn’t look at what’s there fir Cambo/Calumet but in past have seen some bargains.

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Photography, especially LF, has never been inexpensive. Even a decade ago I would have suggested that 200$ is pretty skimpy. But who knows….

About a decade ago I found a poorly advertised Speed Graphic on eBay for $25+25 shipping. Looked okay but a total risk. It arrive quite usable. After 5 years the shutter needed service… 100$. No big deal, considering.

But that’s what to expect from the bargain-basement… a high probability that additional service will be needed for a functional camera… so if funds are extremely limited this approach could be self-limiting.

There are a couple of Toyo on ebay that you can get within that budget, but no lens. More $$ to get workable rig. I didn’t look at what’s there fir Cambo/Calumet but in past have seen some bargains.

I have been seeing $100 to $150 cambo /calumet sans lens and lensboard.. but then im at a loss for what lenses to look for

BrianShaw · Oct 7, 2021

Candlejack said:
I have been seeing $100 to $150 cambo /calumet sans lens and lensboard.. but then im at a loss for what lenses to look for

I have no idea what the “tongue stuck out” means other than you haven’t done that homework yet. A 150 plasmat (Schneider, Fuji, Rodenstock, etc) would be a great start. There are other “more affordable” options like Graflex Optar 135. That limits the opportunity for movements but with your interest in straight photography it might be quite usable.

removed account4 · Oct 7, 2021

ilex wollensak optar kodak. look for something old like from the 40s-50s
but be warned no matter what lens you buy its going to be need to be sent out
for a Clean Lube Adjust ( CLA ) so add that into your budget.. ( anywhere between 75 and 150$ )
or since you are going for long X-ray or lith film exposures maybe look for enlarger lenses//
or make your own using the front lens from a junk folder or box camera, binoculars, magnifying glass
anything you might see lying around some of the junk lenses throw a large enough image circle that it works head on without movements...
you can also get Plano convex lenses for cheep at anchor optical or Edmond scientific of specific focal length and make your own lens, super easy super cheep

Donald Qualls · Oct 7, 2021

BrianShaw said:
There are other “more affordable” options like Graflex Optar 135.

I have a 135 mm f/4.5 Tessar on my Speed Graphic -- as noted, not much room for movements (virtually none), but it works fine for press camera use. And those can sometimes be "nicked" off an otherwise dead 9x12 plate camera that sells for junk price.

BrianShaw · Oct 7, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I have a 135 mm f/4.5 Tessar on my Speed Graphic -- as noted, not much room for movements (virtually none), but it works fine for press camera use. And those can sometimes be "nicked" off an otherwise dead 9x12 plate camera that sells for junk price.

… or one nicked off of one of these. The B&L RapidRectilinear works great even with color film.

https://camerapedia.fandom.com/wiki/No._3A_Folding_Pocket_Kodak

There are many options if one is truly interested in learning, both, the options and the associated risks/opportunities of each.

It seems futile to repeat this but… a reading of Adams’ “The Camera”…

Candlejack · Oct 7, 2021

BrianShaw said:
I have no idea what the “tongue stuck out” means other than you haven’t done that homework yet. A 150 plasmat (Schneider, Fuji, Rodenstock, etc) would be a great start. There are other “more affordable” options like Graflex Optar 135. That limits the opportunity for movements but with your interest in straight photography it might be quite usable.

Yup, ive been talking to people, trying to figure out brand names, and also learning you can pull them off super old cameras. Still asking and looking into it.

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 7, 2021

After shooting medium format and 35 mm for over 30 years, I had the urge to buy 4x 5 because I was bored at the beginning of covid. After spending thousands, I'm wondering why I did it. Why do you want to use 4x5?

Jim Jones · Oct 7, 2021

Candlejack said:
I have been seeing $100 to $150 cambo /calumet sans lens and lensboard.. but then im at a loss for what lenses to look for

One of the many advantages of most LF cameras is the search for camera body and lenses can be two separate searches. Sometimes one can find both together. Any specific lens or camera should be well researched before buying to avoid disappointment. Sellers may assume the buyer is experienced or at least well informed. Other sellers are themselves clueless. A few deliberately overlook shortcomings in their offering. However, most of my online photographic purchases have been satisfactory.

BradS · Oct 7, 2021

Candlejack said:
I have been seeing $100 to $150 cambo /calumet sans lens and lensboard.. but then im at a loss for what lenses to look for

BrianShaw said:
I have no idea what the “tongue stuck out” means other than you haven’t done that homework yet. A 150 plasmat (Schneider, Fuji, Rodenstock, etc) would be a great start. There are other “more affordable” options like Graflex Optar 135. That limits the opportunity for movements but with your interest in straight photography it might be quite usable.

just to expand a little bit on what Brian says.
150mm f/5.6 Schneider Symmar-S
150mm f/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar-N
150mm f/5.6 Nikon Nikkor-W
150mm f/5.6 Fuji Fujinon-W (or CM/W)
any of the above in the 135mm focal length would also be good.
Be sure to get a good working shuttter too. All of the above come in the newer Copal #0

Less expensive but also a little less capable...
135mm Graflex Optar (aka Wollensak Raptar)
150mm Schneider Xenar
150mm Rodenstock Geronar (the 210mm Geronar is a fantastic lens too!)

Donald Qualls · Oct 7, 2021

BrianShaw said:
The B&L RapidRectilinear works great even with color film.

Even the simpler Periskop (matched pair of simple meniscus, concave toward each other, aperture between) can -- or at least the one on a Speedex Jr. does. All the geometric aberrations cancel in these symmetric designs, and if the focal length isn't too short, chromatic aberration is barely noticeable.

Beginner looking at simple large format cameras. (Box? Fixed lens?)

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