Ball or Three-way for MF

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 22, 2023

My Kessler Quick release allows me to move my Chamonix 4x5 forward and back to center the weight. I use a 3-1/2" two screw Arca type plate that allows the camera to slide to center it over the tripod. The two screws in the plate stops any camera slipping and turning. Kessler's QR is pricey but it holds solid.
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Another manufacturer had an ARCA type plate for my Mamiya RB67 that would have been great as it locks on and prevents cmaera from turning. Unfortunately, Kessler's QR doesn't match exactly so I had to use a standard Kessler short plate. THis is why I said that even though Arca described QR and plates should match, they often don't from one manufacturer to another.

GLS · Jul 22, 2023

I use a Wimberley P50 (a long, Arca style QR plate) on the bottom of my Linhof Technikardan S45. This allows a large leeway to reposition the attachment point to the ballhead, depending on rail extension required. As I said, I've had no issues with stabilty with this setup, even with a 450mm lens (granted, it's a lightweight Fujinon C, but the point stands).

Sirius Glass · Jul 22, 2023

250swb said:
A good quality heavy duty ball head is fine for the majority of medium format and including a typical 4x5 wooden field camera. The problem of weight isn't the weight itself but how far the centre of gravity is from the axis of the ball. So a Hasselblad is close to the axis of a ball head, so unless you are using massive lenses it imparts little leverage on the ball clamp (there is no delicate way to describe this). A large light camera such as a wooden 4x5 is also fine, the weight is still mostly around the base and near the axis. The problem comes with increasing the leverage on the ball and if you get a tall camera like an RB67, a heavier 8x10 field camera, or even a tall and heavy 6x6 such as a Mamiya C330 the higher centre of gravity overcomes the tension you can put on your ball clamp. Which is when you need a three way.

A well designed and well built ball head strong enough to do its job works well for some people. I agree with your observations, but I use the three way especially with the Hasselblad 500mm lens or the Tamron 150mm to 600mm lens both with or without their 2X extenders.

wiltw · Jul 22, 2023

250swb said:
A good quality heavy duty ball head is fine for the majority of medium format and including a typical 4x5 wooden field camera. The problem of weight isn't the weight itself but how far the centre of gravity is from the axis of the ball. So a Hasselblad is close to the axis of a ball head, so unless you are using massive lenses it imparts little leverage on the ball clamp (there is no delicate way to describe this). A large light camera such as a wooden 4x5 is also fine, the weight is still mostly around the base and near the axis. The problem comes with increasing the leverage on the ball and if you get a tall camera like an RB67, a heavier 8x10 field camera, or even a tall and heavy 6x6 such as a Mamiya C330 the higher centre of gravity overcomes the tension you can put on your ball clamp. Which is when you need a three way.

I agree with your post. During my working days, I would perch a 12lb Horseman monorail on a Bogen large ballhead, and used it atop a Bogen 3236 tripod, and found little issue with making adjustments of the monorail angle. I did like the idea of a geared head, but at the time they were far more expensive than I wanted to spend to fix what I felt was not a significant issue! Now used Manfrotto 410 heads are available at very modest prices, but in retirement I no longer shoot with my monorail which I used primarily for product photography.

I use an RRS ballhead for my Bronica ETRSi body atop my Gitzo tripod, along with an L-bracket to turn the format to Portrait orientation, and again have never felt like the multi-axis adjustment (unlike a 3-way adjustable head) was an issue at all, even if the 250mm FL lens was mounted along with a 2X teleconvertor (and the lens itself lacks a tripod mount, to better balance lens+body)

neilt3 · Jul 23, 2023

SodaAnt said:
I've never tried a geared 3-way head. Can the gearing be disengaged to make large movements, or do you have to crank the knobs to make any movements at all?

I gave several tripods and heads , ball heads , 3 way and gimbal's .
I'll take out with me whichever is most suitable for what gear I'm shooting with that day .
The Ball head ones tend to be used with 35mm cameras , but also lightweight TLRs such as the Yashica , Minolta and Rollei ones I have .
For heavier cameras I tend to use a 3 way head .
I've a regular, non geared head one I got years ago , and a Manfrotto 410 . I'll use this with my Bronica SQ-Ai and ETRSi's, Mamiya TLRs and 5x4 cameras .
Being able to just move one axis a fraction is a big bonus .
And yes , by turning the ring next to the adjusting knobs , it releases that axis for moving as much as you like in one go , then fine tuning if needed by the adjustment knob .
With non gear heads and ball heads I find fine adjustment a pain with a heavy camera set-up .
Smaller lighter cameras are fine .

I've not tried the old 10x8 tailboard camera on it yet .
I suspect I'll be mounting that directly on the tripod without a head , just the Manfrotto leveling device I have .

Sirius Glass · Jul 23, 2023

Ball heads have the advantage that with them one can easily correct an aiming error that does on coincide with one of the three axis provided by the three axis heads.

DREW WILEY · Jul 23, 2023

Just a slight twitch to one of the tripods legs will do that.

Sirius Glass · Jul 23, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
Just a slight twitch to one of the tripods legs will do that.

Sometimes, depending on exactly which correction is needed. Moving a tripod leg can be overkill when one is making a small off axis adjustment.

Pieter12 · Jul 23, 2023

A good ball head works well under most circumstances. Sometimes you need to wrestle with the head/camera combination if the camera and lens is unwieldy or heavy.

DREW WILEY · Jul 23, 2023

Just as long as one is comfortable with their own tools. I learned on my dad's old maple tripod and brass transit - the same one he used as a surveyor on the Grand Coulee Dam project and Columbia River locks. And those guys had to be way way more accurate in setup than we photographers, and had to do it legs only, and efficiently, despite the terrain. Nowadays they have self-leveling theodolites and precision lasers, but not back then.

I once had in my hands a sample of the same model laser used for aligning the new Panama Canal infrastructure. That was a class of laser unavailable to the public due to too intense a beam - capable of being transmitted one unit to another within a few mm of accuracy over 5 or 10 miles, and even corrected for curvature of the earth. Oh oh... I'll probably get censured for using a term deemed controversial to some 112 year old, who also happens to be one of the last three members of the Flat Earth Society still alive - outside of Kansas, that is. Can't mention "curvature" or any "global" this or that. And no, a ball head cannot imply the earth itself is spherical - please clarify that.

SodaAnt · Jul 24, 2023

General question: Any of you guys carry your camera around in the field with the camera attached to the tripod and the tripod slung over your shoulder? I cringe every time I see someone doing that. Looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 24, 2023

SodaAnt said:
General question: Any of you guys carry your camera around in the field with the camera attached to the tripod and the tripod slung over your shoulder? I cringe every time I see someone doing that. Looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Yes I do it. Just make sure everything's tight.

SodaAnt · Jul 24, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Yes I do it. Just make sure everything's tight.

I participated in a photo session at Point Lobos with an amateur group awhile back and one guy who had what looked like a brand new Hasselblad carried it like that. Something must not have been tight because the camera came loose and fell and hit a rock. The guy was devastated.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 24, 2023

SodaAnt said:
I participated in a photo session at Point Lobos with an amateur group awhile back and one guy who had what looked like a brand new Hasselblad carried it like that. Something must not have been tight because the camera came loose and fell and hit a rock. The guy was devastated.

Well, it's not brand new any longer.

SodaAnt · Jul 24, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Well, it's not brand new any longer.

Yeah. He can probably list it as "Mint+++" on eBay.

xkaes · Jul 24, 2023

SodaAnt said:
General question: Any of you guys carry your camera around in the field with the camera attached to the tripod and the tripod slung over your shoulder? I cringe every time I see someone doing that. Looks like an accident waiting to happen.

I do if I'm moving less than a football field.

DREW WILEY · Jul 24, 2023

At Pt Lobos, one does not even need a tripod attachment failure to get his gear ruined. Just a simple slip on the seaweed will do that. I sometimes carry lighter cameras rifle-style over the shoulder for short distances, but never over slippery footing.

Brett Weston ruined his early favorite lens during a Pt Lobos slip. The big wooden view camera itself survived, and I've seen it on display. I saw a friend dunk his entire expensive 6X6 SLR setup in a mountain stream due to carrying it rifle style, and a slip on a wet rock. And he was a highly experienced climber. You can practice at home if you wish, using banana peels and loose marbles on high gloss varnished stairways.

wiltw · Jul 24, 2023

xkaes said:
I do if I'm moving less than a football field.

I do it only if I am moving less than 50'...and even then I make sure I have a firm grasp on the camera strap in case the QR releases its grip!..and it HAS let loose of a camera!

juan · Jul 24, 2023

SodaAnt said:
I participated in a photo session at Point Lobos with an amateur group awhile back and one guy who had what looked like a brand new Hasselblad carried it like that. Something must not have been tight because the camera came loose and fell and hit a rock. The guy was devastated.

I've seen many cameras fall off of those Bogen/Manfrotto quick release heads. I think 3047 is the number. They seem to be fitted properly and tighten down, but something shifts and they loosen.

GregY · Jul 24, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Ball heads have the advantage that with them one can easily correct an aiming error that does on coincide with one of the three axis provided by the three axis heads.

Steve, it could also be said that the disadvantage of a ballhead is that they can change one of the correct axes while failing to correct the one that is out.

GLS · Jul 25, 2023

SodaAnt said:
General question: Any of you guys carry your camera around in the field with the camera attached to the tripod and the tripod slung over your shoulder? I cringe every time I see someone doing that. Looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Sometimes, yes, but only if I'm moving fairly short distances and the terrain is sound. With my Technikardan especially it can save a lot of time packing and unpacking. Just make sure everything is locked down properly.

Sirius Glass · Jul 25, 2023

GregY said:
Steve, it could also be said that the disadvantage of a ballhead is that they can change one of the correct axes while failing to correct the one that is out.

I agree and that is one of several reasons that I have the ball head is not the tripod head for me.

Pieter12 · Jul 25, 2023

One of the things I do is first roughly compose with the camera hand-held. Then judging the camera’s height and position, I can set up the tripod to the proper height. A ball head allows me to quickly get the intended angle. With the drag set right, there is no change to any of the settings upon locking the ball head.

Sirius Glass · Jul 25, 2023

Pieter12 said:
One of the things I do is first roughly compose with the camera hand-held. Then judging the camera’s height and position, I can set up the tripod to the proper height. A ball head allows me to quickly get the intended angle. With the drag set right, there is no change to any of the settings upon locking the ball head.

I like that approach.

wiltw · Jul 25, 2023

juan said:
I've seen many cameras fall off of those Bogen/Manfrotto quick release heads. I think 3047 is the number. They seem to be fitted properly and tighten down, but something shifts and they loosen.

I understand the issue with the Bogen/Manfrotto heads...unlike other QR systems that have to have the lever move a large amount before the QR plate is released at all from the locking mechanism (like the Linhof Profi), the Manfrotto QR systems released the plate even with a relatively small movement of the release lever. Not sure if that flaw unlimately was finally designed out on later Manfrotto QR systems (or if they simply added a safety lock for the lever arm)

Ball or Three-way for MF

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