Back to film. TMY and TX in XTOL. should I try HC-110

stefano giovannini · Oct 5, 2016

Thanks for all the responses.
I think I will try HC-110. less mess than mixing powders and shelf life are ++.
Does someone has good recommendations about 1+47 or 1+49 times? Covington I believe states 50% longer times than dilution B.

How long does the ready to use / diluted solution last? I was thinking it would be handy to fill a 1.5 liter bottle with solution ready to use, if it keeps something like a month.

Regarding contrast I am still figuring out my workflow / editing as I am new to digitization of BW negs.

When I lived in Europe in the 1990s the HC-110 concentrate seemed more viscous and would stick to the 50ml container I used to measure it with. had to rinse it 2 / 3 times. What I bought at BH seem more fluid.

Cost not an issue as with XTOL 1+1 it is about $0.30 per roll, HC110 may be 0.20 / 0.15 per roll, such low / irrilevant price difference. I just wish it was sold in 250 ml containers. I looked on ebay to see if anyone sold smaller quantities. from a large bottle.

Only issue, I find dil B times way too short especially if the temperature is 22 C and above.

Gerald C Koch · Oct 5, 2016

I use 1+49 because it simpler as my tanks hold 250 and 500 ml and easier with a metric graduated cylinder. You can use the times for the Kodak dilution 1+47. Good enough for government work.

MattKing · Oct 5, 2016

Even Kodak now recommends mixing up HC-110 as you go (while still including instructions for the alternative of making a stock solution).

If I didn't still have a supply of HC-110 replenisher, I would most likely be using either X-Tol or T-Max RS, because you can use them replenished. And if I did, I would get used to them, tweak my exposure and process, and end up with essentially the same results as I'm getting with HC-110.

In short - it isn't the developer, it is the person doing the development.

jimjm · Oct 5, 2016

stefano giovannini said:
Only issue, I find dil B times way too short especially if the temperature is 22 C and above.

That's why many folks use The "unofficial" Dilution H. Twice as dilute as B, just double the development time.

There's some useful info here http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 5, 2016

Tried TMY and TMX in HC-110 B 30 years ago and I had the problem of blocked highlights. Has anybody experienced the same?
HC-110 is my favorite developer with any non-designer grain BW film even though you can't shoot at box speeds.

markbarendt · Oct 5, 2016

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Tried TMY and TMX in HC-110 B 30 years ago and I had the problem of blocked highlights.

Did you try burning to print them?

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 5, 2016

markbarendt said:
Did you try burning to print them?

Yes. Some highlights were so blocked that burning in doesn't help. Some highlights were fine. But with TMX/TMY, I found that if I over developed slightly, the highlights can be bullet proof.

jvo · Oct 5, 2016

DREW WILEY said:
HC-110 keeps remarkably well in original concentrate. I'm one of those people who mixes it straight from concentrate into working solution. But this takes a bit of practice to do correctly. And it is a good match for TMax films, even though I switched long ago to PMK pyro for general use. I always
use developers one-shot, even fixer.

hc-110, one-shot from stock to working solution - a dream!

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 5, 2016

jvo said:
hc-110, one-shot from stock to working solution - a dream!

I use HC-110 replenished. I was lucky enough to find 6 bottles of replenisher on eBay. I prefer the look of replenished developers. XTOL looks great replenished too.

stefano giovannini · Oct 5, 2016

jimjm said:
That's why many folks use The "unofficial" Dilution H. Twice as dilute as B, just double the development time.

There's some useful info here http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

Thanks. I bought a 10ml syringe at the pharmacy. Covington states you need at least 6ml of HC-110 per roll. At dil H i am not sure I could put enough developer at that concentration in my Paterson 2 reels tank (300ml per film) Will try dil B and dil E depending on the temperature ( i get 22 C these days, that could make the dev time too short for my liking).

MattKing · Oct 5, 2016

Way simpler than a syringe.

Get a Paterson 45ml measuring graduate (or something similar). Put in something like 30ml of water. Slowly add 6ml of the syrup, until the volume reaches 36ml. Careful observation of the meniscus of the liquid in relation to the markings on the graduate will yield sufficient accuracy.

Dump the result into a larger graduate. Rinse the 45ml graduate into the larger graduate a couple of times, until you are sure that you have rinsed out all the syrup. Then add enough water to bring the total volume to 300 ml. You will then have 300ml of 1+49 dilution HC-110.

If you use the same small graduate and technique each time, you will get consistent results.

RattyMouse · Oct 6, 2016

MattKing said:
Way simpler than a syringe.

How is using a syringe not simple? My 6 year old can do it once instructed!

MattKing · Oct 6, 2016

A syringe is certainly less simple than pouring the syrup directly.

The HC-110 syrup is quite viscous, so you need a syringe designed for viscous liquids (like cough syrup?). Compared to the Paterson graduate, ensuring that all of the syrup is out of the syringe and into the working solution is more of a nuisance - multiple slower and smaller fills with diluting water - and it is easier to ensure complete cleaning of the graduate than the syringe.

In addition, as the volume of HC-110 goes down in the original bottle, in order to reach down into the syrup you need to either have a long syringe, or an attached tube (which skews the volume calculation) or you need to tip the bottle to bring the solution up closer to the neck. In my case, the last alternative isn't an easy option, because I'm essentially working with one hand.

The upside of HC-110's viscosity is that it is easy to pour small amounts slowly and in a thin stream. So that is what I do.

You do have to be careful to pour directly into the diluting water, rather than down the sides of the graduate, but that is quite easy to do.

I've tried both, and the small graduate works better for me.

bvy · Oct 6, 2016

I might have to try that, Matt. I've been pouring the syrup into the cap and sucking it up with the syringe. The other problem with the syringe (my syringe) is that the solution bubbles up as it's taken in, making it hard to measure.

RattyMouse · Oct 6, 2016

MattKing said:
A syringe is certainly less simple than pouring the syrup directly.

The HC-110 syrup is quite viscous, so you need a syringe designed for viscous liquids (like cough syrup?). Compared to the Paterson graduate, ensuring that all of the syrup is out of the syringe and into the working solution is more of a nuisance - multiple slower and smaller fills with diluting water - and it is easier to ensure complete cleaning of the graduate than the syringe.

No you dont. Once the syringe's plunger is full depressed, all the measured volume has been delivered. You do NOT have to make any extra effort to get more fluid out of the syringe. The "leftover" has been taken into account with the calibration markings. Cleaning a syringe is trivial. HC-110 is fully water soluble and using just hot water, a few flushes gets it all out.

MattKing said:
In addition, as the volume of HC-110 goes down in the original bottle, in order to reach down into the syrup you need to either have a long syringe, or an attached tube (which skews the volume calculation) or you need to tip the bottle to bring the solution up closer to the neck. In my case, the last alternative isn't an easy option, because I'm essentially working with one hand.

I have a tiny 50 ml beaker that I pour the HC-110 into and draw from that. Problem solved.

MattKing said:
The upside of HC-110's viscosity is that it is easy to pour small amounts slowly and in a thin stream. So that is what I do.

You do have to be careful to pour directly into the diluting water, rather than down the sides of the graduate, but that is quite easy to do.

I've tried both, and the small graduate works better for me.

RattyMouse · Oct 6, 2016

bvy said:
I might have to try that, Matt. I've been pouring the syrup into the cap and sucking it up with the syringe. The other problem with the syringe (my syringe) is that the solution bubbles up as it's taken in, making it hard to measure.

A few taps on an up righted syringe gets out the bubbles. Push them out with the plunger and you are good to go. I'd use a small beaker to draw the syrup in rather than the cap.

markbarendt · Oct 6, 2016

Ratty I use and like syringes for some things like the A&B Rollo Pyro components because they don't get mixed until the last second. The syringes allow a good way to hold the parts ready to go.

I do find that syringes are more of a hassle than using a small graduate for most chemicals though. The biggest issue is simply getting the chemical out of the original container. If we could do it like a doctor does with a vial of injectable drug a syringe would be my fave.

DREW WILEY · Oct 6, 2016

My method is analogous to Matt's. A bit of water in the bottom of the graduate first, to prevent the syrup from sticking to the bottom. Then the syrup, then more water. Cap the top tightly, even if it's just with a gloved finger, then invert the graduate back and forth a few times until it's all consistent, but not agitated enough to create bubbles. Then pour before it settles again. I sometimes use HC-110 at extreme dilutions requiring considerable accuracy, yet still get away with measuring direct concentrate.

RattyMouse · Oct 8, 2016

markbarendt said:
Ratty I use and like syringes for some things like the A&B Rollo Pyro components because they don't get mixed until the last second. The syringes allow a good way to hold the parts ready to go.

I do find that syringes are more of a hassle than using a small graduate for most chemicals though. The biggest issue is simply getting the chemical out of the original container. If we could do it like a doctor does with a vial of injectable drug a syringe would be my fave.

How hard is it to get a 50 ml beaker? I have one and pour an approximate amount of HC-110 into that. Using a syringe in that way is trivial.

stefano giovannini · Oct 8, 2016

I bought a 10ml syringe for less than $2. It come with a universal bottle cap contraption with a hole for the syringe that you insert in the bottle. you can incline the bottle without spilling the fluid out. Seems to me more accurate than the graduate method. You can leave the alternate bottle cap on the bottle as the hole can be covered with a flap. But not sure if it is really airtight.

anthonylg · Oct 8, 2016

I love TX in Xtol, it's a bit grainy of course but its texture is just gorgeous.

Have you ever tried Perceptol? I really like TX in it, but it is a particular developer. You will get a bit less contrasts, with milky whites and less details in the blacks. I like the way it keeps details in the highlights and you can always crush the blacks in post.
It is a very fine grain developer but you have a lost of the film speed. Some say one stop but rated at 250 it would look great.

MattKing · Oct 8, 2016

stefano giovannini said:
I bought a 10ml syringe for less than $2. It come with a universal bottle cap contraption with a hole for the syringe that you insert in the bottle. you can incline the bottle without spilling the fluid out. Seems to me more accurate than the graduate method. You can leave the alternate bottle cap on the bottle as the hole can be covered with a flap. But not sure if it is really airtight.

For HC-110, it is most important that the seal is moisture proof, because it is water that causes HC-110 to deteriorate.

markbarendt · Oct 8, 2016

RattyMouse said:
How hard is it to get a 50 ml beaker? I have one and pour an approximate amount of HC-110 into that. Using a syringe in that way is trivial.

Ratty, I agree that a syringe isn't very hard to use but I do find it easier to pour directly into something like this directly from the bottle.

Rather than something like this plus a syringe.

John Bragg · Oct 8, 2016

I use a 10ml syringe with a length of hard plastic tube attached by means of a short length of silicone tubing. Ignore the head of air when you draw up the syrup as this is just the volume of air in the extension tube and can be discounted. Wash out with mixing water and all is good.

RattyMouse · Oct 9, 2016

MattKing said:
For HC-110, it is most important that the seal is moisture proof, because it is water that causes HC-110 to deteriorate.

HC-110 hardly deteriorates. I have used syrup that is bright red, with solid chunks in it and nearly double the viscosity of fresh stuff with perfect results. As far as chemicals go, HC-110 is industructable.

Back to film. TMY and TX in XTOL. should I try HC-110

XTOL or HC-110 for my photography (with TMY-2)

XTOL 1:1

HC-110 dil B 1+31

HC-110 dil E 1+47

HC-110 1+49

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Back to film. TMY and TX in XTOL. should I try HC-110

XTOL or HC-110 for my photography (with TMY-2)

XTOL 1:1

HC-110 dil B 1+31

HC-110 dil E 1+47

HC-110 1+49

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