Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[Mackinaw]

True. All bets are off if it's not P30 that was used for Raging Bull as I understood AZD to have meant when he mentioned it

pentaxuser

Raging Bull was shot with several different Eastman B&W films: 5222-XX, 7222, Eastman Plus-X 80D/64T 5231/7231 Neg Films.

Jim B.

 

[cmacd123]

Raging Bull was shot with several different Eastman B&W films: 5222-XX, 7222, Eastman Plus-X 80D/64T 5231/7231 Neg Films..

the IMDB site generally does have an item for film stock used in a given movie. (not sure if you need a paid sub to use it)

 

[AZD]

Watching Raging Bull won't tell you much about P30 since it was shot on Kodak Double-X. You'll need to watch a Fellini film like La dolce Vita or 8½. I am not sure how you will know what objects are red in the film, unless perhaps you are familiar with Italian road signs from the early 1960s.

It's true, I mixed up the ridiculous ad copy between P30 and 5222/BWXX. Either way, does knowing it was 8-1/2 matter? Not saying it doesn't.1970s photojournalism makes me want to shoot Tri-X. Elvis made me want to shoot my television. Maybe an old movie I had never heard of would make me want to shoot more P30 if I saw it. Regardless, the point being that P30 relies heavily on an image of romance but often delivers real images that leave a lot of people wondering where the thrill has gone. Still, I hesitate to put them down unless I simply can't get anything useful out of their film. TBD.

 

[Agulliver]

You've never heard of 8 1/2 ???? Really???? Literally one of THE most famous films ever made?

Regarding comparing P30 and PanF...no I haven't directly compared the two in 120 because P30 is not available in 120 yet. I am predicting that P30 will open up new avenues in 120 when it does launch.

Nobody knows when it will be available in 8mm and 16mm but the intention is to eventually make it in multiple formats.

 

[pentaxuser]

Based on the official ORWO representative's very recent post, it would appear that it is serious about producing colour film. Its size and resources would seem to indicate that it may get there more quickly than Ferrania

pentaxuser

 

[faberryman]

Regarding comparing P30 and PanF...no I haven't directly compared the two in 120 because P30 is not available in 120 yet. I am predicting that P30 will open up new avenues in 120 when it does launch.

I know you haven't compared Pan F and P30 in 120 because P30 isn't available in 120. P30 in 120 is just a gleam in Ferrania's eye. That's why I asked if you had compared Pan F and P30 in 135 and extrapolated to 120. If you haven't compared Pan F And P30 in 135, you don't know which is the finer grain, and therefore don't know whether P30 is going to be finer grain than Pan F in 120, and therefore don't know whether P30 on 120 will be "a game changer" or "will open up new avenues". Maybe Pan F is finer grain than P30 and so has already changed the game and opened up the new avenues you are talking about, whatever they may be. And then there is Ilford Ortho Plus to consider.

 

[Film-Niko]

By the way, Ferrania insists P30 is an ISO 80 film:
"Shoot at 80 ISO. We firmly recommend shooting this film at the box speed of 80 ISO."

And that is the big problem, because it is not an ISO 80 film, not at all.
Both the former ASA and the current ISO norm are evaluating film speed by measuring shadow detail. In case of the ISO norm, a logD of 0.1 at Zone I is required.
And P30 cannot deliver that, not even close to it.
I have tested many rolls of P30, and developed them in different developers. And the real speed of this film (based accurately on shadow detail and ISO norm) is about two to three (!!) stops less than 80. Real speed is only in the ISO 10-20 range.
The other huge problem with this film: The extremely steep characteristic curve. It is impossibly to get a wide greyscale with good tonality. Because of the brutally steep curve (I have evaluated all my tested P30 - developer combinations with a calibrated densitometer) you can either have shadow detail - but then get blown out / too dense highlights.
Or when you adopt your exposure and development for the highlights with reasonable highlight detail, then you get empty shadows without details.
But a normal linear shaped characteristic curve with (very) good tonality from the shadows up to the highlights is not possible with this film.

When you are shooting this film at ISO 80, you are pushing it significantly, and sacrificing shadow detail. Period.
If I want such an very contrasty look I could do that with any other standard BW film just by pushing it, but at a much lower price (P30 is more expensive than its competitors).

Honestly, I was disappointed with this film, as it has no advantage compared to the established films. But many severe disadvantages.
I really hope Film Ferrania is going for better products with their future offerings, as I wish them well and hope they can stay in business for the long run (and finally making color film in the long run, but I think Inoviscoat/Filmotec under their ORWO brand name will be much faster in that regard, at least with movie film offerings).

 

[Film-Niko]

On the contrary....when I use P30 it is because it is virtually grain free even in 135.

It is indeed extremely fine grained. But that is not a unique feature in the film market, lots of established films offer it:
- Adox CMS 20 II is even much finer grained, and also has much much better sharpness and resolution
- Adox HR 50 is also surpassing P30 in that regard
- and then we have PanF+, Delta 100, Acros II and T-Max 100 which are also all extremely fine grained (already in 135), and with excellent sharpness and resolution.

And all these films offer a much better characteristic curve and better tonality. And outstanding detail rendition. And (with the exception of CMS 20 II) also significantly higher speed.
And most of them are cheaper, too.

 

[laingsoft]

Based on the official ORWO representative's very recent post, it would appear that it is serious about producing colour film. Its size and resources would seem to indicate that it may get there more quickly than Ferrania

pentaxuser

Who wants to bet that Ferrania's color film will be ready at exactly the same time as Orwo's is available?

 

[foc]

Who wants to bet that Ferrania's color film will be ready at exactly the same time as Orwo's is available?

 

[Ernst-Jan]

Who wants to bet that Ferrania's color film will be ready at exactly the same time as Orwo's is available?

Nah, I will bet that Ferrania will never ever come with any colour film....

 

[brbo]

Who wants to bet that Ferrania's color film will be ready at exactly the same time as Orwo's is available?

ORWO announced E-6 film?
Ferrania announced C-41 film?

 

[laingsoft]

ORWO announced E-6 film?
Ferrania announced C-41 film?

Ecn2 cinema film.

 

[brbo]

Are you saying Ferrania will package Orwo's ECN-2 film hoping we won't notice it's not E-6?

 

[laingsoft]

No, not necessarily. I could 100% see them offering orwo's ECN2 film with their branding, like they did with their Alpha films.

 

[faberryman]

No, not necessarily. I could 100% see them offering orwo's ECN2 film with their branding, like they did with their Alpha films.

Are you suggesting P30 is someone else's film? Because, if so, you are going to burst more than a few bubbles around here.

 

[laingsoft]

Are you suggesting P30 is someone else's film? Because, if so, you are going to burst more than a few bubbles around here.

Ferrania themselves said they worked with a partner to produce P30a/P30. In my podcast I spoke with the US rep for orwo and he confirmed that the Ferrania folks got help from orwo in delivering their B&W film. I don't know the details but the subtext was that p30a was UN54

 

[faberryman]

Ferrania themselves said they worked with a partner to produce P30a/P30. In my podcast I spoke with the US rep for orwo and he confirmed that the Ferrania folks got help from orwo in delivering their B&W film. I don't know the details but the subtext was that p30a was n74+

As I remember, Ferrania coated the film and then had a third party put it in spools because they had yet to fix their spooling machine.

 

[miha]

No, not necessarily. I could 100% see them offering orwo's ECN2 film with their branding, like they did with their Alpha films.

That won't work for type 135. No place to get it developed.

 

[miha]

Ferrania themselves said they worked with a partner to produce P30a/P30. In my podcast I spoke with the US rep for orwo and he confirmed that the Ferrania folks got help from orwo in delivering their B&W film. I don't know the details but the subtext was that p30a was UN54

You realize UN54 is a solid ISO 100 emulsion, P30 on the other hand can't even reach 80?

 

[faberryman]

You realize UN54 is a solid ISO 100 emulsion, P30 on the other hand can't even reach 80?

This is why you don't want to listen to podcasts of random guys on the internet.

 

[laingsoft]

As I remember, Ferrania coated the film and then had a third party put it in spools because they had yet to fix their spooling machine.

Yeah maybe

This is why you don't want to listen to podcasts of random guys on the internet.

You don't have to listen to me. You can listen to the orwo rep I was talking to and make your own conclusions.

 

[faberryman]

I don't know the details but the subtext was that p30a was n74+

Yeah maybe

Seems a lot more plausible than your suspicion that P30, which as noted struggles to reach ISO 80, is actually N74+, an ISO 400 film.

And don't think nobody noticed that after miha's post, you went back and changed your reference from n74+ to the slightly less dumb UN54.

 

[laingsoft]

Yeah I got the two mixed up. I edited it after I posted it, but this is a fast thread lol

 

[Nzoomed]

Based on the official ORWO representative's very recent post, it would appear that it is serious about producing colour film. Its size and resources would seem to indicate that it may get there more quickly than Ferrania

pentaxuser

Sounds exciting, especially if its an E6 film!