B&W Paper Printing for a Beginner

[clothesontheline]

... LED's might be fine, although they might fog your image (make it have a gray tone overall)... i think for this purpose the LED's might be fine, try to look one in the correct spectrum if not,you'll probably be fine.

What do you mean by correct spectrum?

even in .0xx mm makes a difference, although a general exposure of 10-30 seconds is fine, testing each one before hand would be best, but time consuming. you can have the kids test one, but it might take to long, although a quick development will be fine.

Do I just cut back on all the times except for the developer?

 

[clothesontheline]

Get larger trays so you can develop several images at a time. Garden seed trays may be a good alternative.

Do you have experience using this type of tray? I'm considering purchasing 3-4 of these http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/13293/flats-trays-inserts because they are cheap compared to other "developing trays" because of the size; I can get 3 for $12 or 4 for $13.50.. or maybe http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/362618-REG/Yankee_YAC1114_Plastic_Ribbed_Developing_Tray.html

 

[MattKing]

What do you mean by correct spectrum?



Do I just cut back on all the times except for the developer?

As for spectrum, almost all light sources emit light over a range of frequencies (aka a spectrum). We perceive those different frequencies as different colours.

The materials we use in a standard darkroom are quite sensitive to some colours of light, and not very sensitive to other colours of light. A safelight is a light that emits a colour of light which most papers in the darkroom are not very sensitive to.

So when you look at the specifications of a light-source you hope to use as a safelight, you check what the central frequency is of the light emitted by that light-source and, if you can, how sharp the cut-off is of that source. Then you compare that information with the specifications for the photographic paper you are using.

Most papers here in North America are designed for use with a light filtered by something like a Kodak OC filter. That has a peak transmission for light at about 580-590 nm.

 

[mesantacruz]

Yes.. i should be mores specific... when exposing you picture... (you might want to test the times... a general exposure would be 10-30 seconds. When you develop the paper, those times will not change. if you get a very white negative, you might wan to try a longer exposure... so say you did 10 seconds, try 30... or vice versa.


as for an led... as has been mentioned almost any red led will probably do.. but if you have the chance to read specifications... i believe that anything around 660nm frequency would be considered safe, so if you have the opportunity to red the specifications, and have a choice, such an led, would be the best.

 

[clothesontheline]

as for an led... as has been mentioned almost any red led will probably do.. but if you have the chance to read specifications... i believe that anything around 660nm frequency would be considered safe, so if you have the opportunity to red the specifications, and have a choice, such an led, would be the best.

I quoted mesantacruz, but this question if for anyone:

I've gotten a whole lot of feedback when it comes to a "safelight" for the darkroom (developing & contact printing B&W prints on RC VC paper) from borrowing one to investing in a good one to purchasing red LEDs.

At this point, I'm heading towards buying a cheap source of red light which will act as a "safelight".

Here is what I have come up with so far:
(please comment on each one as you see fit to whether it will work or not and how many I will need)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000R15NUE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A24U7YTI6UD0QV
and another look at the same bulb http://www.bulbrite.com/products_en_5_50_120_0_0-S11-Medium-E26-Base.php

This one looks promising: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YO11DY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Something I found interesting.. is there much difference between the Satco bulb above for $3 and this "jr. safelight" they charge $17 for? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/15766-REG/Delta_35110_Brightlab_Universal_Red_Junior.html

I think this will be too bright: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LWIQ08/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2NVEKMQTGKOW8

And lastly, good old red and cheap LED lights: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008RJMSLK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3TNRVM8W04X84


Oh, and I'm still open for suggestions that don't include the above items(please include a link and/or where to obtain it)

-Thanks so much! (the final process for overview is still to come.. tomorrow or wed.)

 

[polyglot]

The CFL bulb is absolutely not suitable; it will have a significant UV component and will destroy your paper very quickly.

The other incandescent bulbs may or may not work; unless specified as safelights they probably aren't. But might be. I wouldn't bother with them.

Get the $2.42 bike light you listed. It will be plenty bright enough and safe enough.

 

[Bill Burk]

Don't do any of the red bulbs. OC is dark amber/brown, and none of the choices you made are brown...

You can't tell by the pictures, but this is what you need...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[clothesontheline]

Don't do any of the red bulbs. OC is dark amber/brown, and none of the choices you made are brown...

You can't tell by the pictures, but this is what you need...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Thanks for looking, but he had already sold it.. if you think of/ find anything else let me know.

For know I think I will stick with red LEDs.

Polyglot, Do you think one should be enough, or should I order 2 just to be sure? I'm not exactly sure on the measurements yet but probably the average size or smaller.

 

[clothesontheline]

I would appreciate it if someone answered my above question to Simonh82, the garden trays are very large (I assume this will be good for doing multiple prints at once).. I would reuse some tubs around my house but I don't think anything would be usable or convenient.

 

[mesantacruz]

I never saw your question to me sorry... Since this is going to be temporary, the led's seem the way to go definitely, especially since you can actually use them for something else afterwards. I don't know if those leds are safe or not, and looking through amazon, looks like most manufacturers omit the minor details of importance to us at the moment. Since you will be doing this for fun and i think you should not loose sight of that as your main objective, the led bike light on amazon, is sufficient enough. It looks like a red casing over a white led, so i'm not sure. but what you can do, is point it away from your working area so that you get just enough light to see what you are doing. if it is still to bright, then put a white piece of paper or something translucent, so that you still get light but not as strong. Remember, your not making technically perfect pictures, and i doubt you'll get much fogging, IF ANY from this led light, as long as it doesn't directly hit your working area... Just something quick.... when i worked alone in the darkroom at school. i would put the paper in developer 1st step... and wash it... once washed for a couple of minutes, the developer is gone. so for my first practice prints, i would turn on the light or take the sheet outside to see my exposure. OF course, don't do that, but what i want to say, is don't worry much about fogging the paper. it's only for a couple of minutes, and most likely won't happen, and even if it does, it won't be noticeable.

As for the plastic containers... those are fine, in photography, we want strong durable ones, because we'll be using them for a while, and so they become brittle over the years and eventually crack, but we'll have gotten our money's worth. You, on the other hand, only need a container for one time use... i suggest the cheapest one that can get the job done... these seem good for that... the cheaper the better.

 

[clothesontheline]

Just want to make sure we're all on the same page here for fixer; I plan on using Kodak Fixer http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27603-REG/Kodak_1971746_Fixer_for_Black.html which contains a hardener.. I would buy Illford rapid fix but its more expensive and I dont want to have to worry about keeping it cool/refridgerating after using it. (The kodak is more handy/easier to deal with since it is powder) Some have said I only need to fix for 2 minutes max, but were you talking about rapid, because they say fixers with hardeners require times around five minutes. Thoughts/Comments?

 

[clothesontheline]

I never saw your question to me sorry... Since this is going to be temporary, the led's seem the way to go definitely, especially since you can actually use them for something else afterwards. I don't know if those leds are safe or not, and looking through amazon, looks like most manufacturers omit the minor details of importance to us at the moment. Since you will be doing this for fun and i think you should not loose sight of that as your main objective, the led bike light on amazon, is sufficient enough. It looks like a red casing over a white led, so i'm not sure. but what you can do, is point it away from your working area so that you get just enough light to see what you are doing. if it is still to bright, then put a white piece of paper or something translucent, so that you still get light but not as strong. Remember, your not making technically perfect pictures, and i doubt you'll get much fogging, IF ANY from this led light, as long as it doesn't directly hit your working area... Just something quick.... when i worked alone in the darkroom at school. i would put the paper in developer 1st step... and wash it... once washed for a couple of minutes, the developer is gone. so for my first practice prints, i would turn on the light or take the sheet outside to see my exposure. OF course, don't do that, but what i want to say, is don't worry much about fogging the paper. it's only for a couple of minutes, and most likely won't happen, and even if it does, it won't be noticeable.

As for the plastic containers... those are fine, in photography, we want strong durable ones, because we'll be using them for a while, and so they become brittle over the years and eventually crack, but we'll have gotten our money's worth. You, on the other hand, only need a container for one time use... i suggest the cheapest one that can get the job done... these seem good for that... the cheaper the better.

Now that I've got to looking at the Red LED light pics, I'm not so sure about them..It looks ike some of the white light shines through in the middle of the beam.. which sounds like bad news to me..

Actually, I could care less at this point; I'm going to stick with those LED's and Ill do what you recommended if they are too bright.

Thank you for reminding me that this is just for fun and It doesn't have to be PERFECT. Plus the kids could careless if a photo is 1% off because of "fogging".

As for the plastic containers, thanks for the comments.. before I think you suggested I check the dollar store to see what they had there so I could dispose of the trays afterwards; so i think I will do that b4 I buy any.

*JUST A NOTE* Yesterday, I saw electronic timers like you use in your kitchen at the Dollar tree.. so obviously for only buck. Sounds like a steal plus they might be really helpful in the darkroom. Maybe you could check your local store.. I might post in a main forum about it.

 

[mesantacruz]

so, first your developer which should be this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27029-REG/Kodak_1464726_Dektol_Developer_Powder.html

and you do have the right fixer... if you zoom in it says 2-4 minutes for rc paper, which is what you will be using.
the hardeners are usually for fiber paper, so you'll be fine with just 2 minutes.

 

[clothesontheline]

so, first your developer which should be this

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27029-REG/Kodak_1464726_Dektol_Developer_Powder.html

and you do have the right fixer... if you zoom in it says 2-4 minutes for rc paper, which is what you will be using.
the hardeners are usually for fiber paper, so you'll be fine with just 2 minutes.

WOW. Missed that one. Thanks for the help! Comments on the red lights/ timers?

I am good to go.

 

[mesantacruz]

The led's look good, and maybe you should order two, just in case one fails... The timer sounds like a good idea, also, i didn't quite catch if you where gonna have the kids come in with their respective groups, but maybe assigning one to be a time keeper, would be a good idea... Also, since it's only a buck, and could be used for other activities as well. Again, the LED you picked should be fine, but some input from someone else would be nice... also, keep a look out for a cheap red led, at the dollar store, you might find one. I saw another red bike LED, which seemed to actually have a red LED instead of the case being red, but i don't know, i comes all the way from china, and doesn't have the best reviews. Anyway, you should be all set.

 

[mesantacruz]

just found an awesome site.. had been mentioned here before...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

this led goes into a regular light socket/lamp socket... and does not fog paper for sure, cheaper version of the one mentioned above, from the same site.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/2-watt-g11-globe-bulb-360-degree/440/

 

[clothesontheline]

just found an awesome site.. had been mentioned here before...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

this led goes into a regular light socket/lamp socket... and does not fog paper for sure, cheaper version of the one mentioned above, from the same site.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/2-watt-g11-globe-bulb-360-degree/440/

Wow. That looks perfect; thanks so much for looking around! I'm not sure why everyone doesn't just buy safe and cheap LEDs like this.. photo marketing is something else.

I plan on ordering everything in the next few hours, so if you or anyone else gets this, do you think I should get 2 of those; and should I get amber or red?

 

[MattKing]

Wow. That looks perfect; thanks so much for looking around! I'm not sure why everyone doesn't just buy safe and cheap LEDs like this.. photo marketing is something else.

I plan on ordering everything in the next few hours, so if you or anyone else gets this, do you think I should get 2 of those; and should I get amber or red?

The photo-marketers guarantee the spectrum of their lamps - not so with these sorts of LEDs. All it takes is a slight change in production processes to make these LEDs unsafe for darkroom work. As these LEDs are not represented as being usable as safelights, the vendor doesn't have any reason to worry about telling its customers about such a change.

That being said, I tried some similar LEDs and they worked out, so I am happy.

Order at least two. I ordered three from the source I used and one was damaged in transit.

Red is more likely to be safe than amber. If I was ordering now I would get both, because if the amber is safe, it is brighter, but I have other safelights in hand and I have experience testing safelights before use.

 

[clothesontheline]

The photo-marketers guarantee the spectrum of their lamps - not so with these sorts of LEDs. All it takes is a slight change in production processes to make these LEDs unsafe for darkroom work. As these LEDs are not represented as being usable as safelights, the vendor doesn't have any reason to worry about telling its customers about such a change.

That being said, I tried some similar LEDs and they worked out, so I am happy.

Order at least two. I ordered three from the source I used and one was damaged in transit.

Red is more likely to be safe than amber. If I was ordering now I would get both, because if the amber is safe, it is brighter, but I have other safelights in hand and I have experience testing safelights before use.

So if i get those LED bulbs, should I get 2 red bulbs, or 1 red bulb and 1 amber? -The amber looks more like an orange/light color and I know that an OC is typically dark amber, right?

Or would you recommend your bulb better, http://dx.com/p/18-led-e27-light-bulb-110v-red-5136

Thanks!

 

[clothesontheline]

The room is 12ft x 12ft with about a 10-12 ft ceiling.

 

[clothesontheline]

After tons of more research and tips from you guys, I have finally compiled a process; input as you see fit: *Note*: If you read any at all(please read all) look at "5)" where my main questions are

My Objective: I am in charge of the one day photography section during a weeklong(5 days) summer art camp wih 2 sessions: one from 9-12am and one from 1-4pm. The kids(around 35 in number total) are going to be split up into groups and are going to be given several pinhole cameras of which they will be instructed to use. The kids will be shown the photographic process(how light works and such) in a room size camera obscura for understanding purposes. Each group will be taken and expose one artistic photo with the camera, recording times and such to get a more accurate photo(or maybe 2 if the exposure fails) I will then be mainly in charge of getting the photos developed into negatives(the kids being shown the process in full room light and possibly under a safelight if there is time), and then contact printing several individual negatives into multiple positives for each member of the group to have a copy(same deal).

Supplies Needed(for everything but making the cameras):

• A completely dark, light-sealed room to work in (12ft x12ft in my casewith app. 12 ft ceiling)
• RC VC photo paper: Polyglot suggested glossy: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...VC57_100F_Seagull_VC_RCII_5x7_100_Glossy.html but I've read that it could cause problems with reflecting light inside of the cameras; so I'm thinking on getting Pearl: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._RVC57_100P_Seagull_VC_RCII_5x7_100Pearl.html which is cheaper anyways.
• Developer: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27029-REG/Kodak_1464726_Dektol_Developer_Powder.html
• Photo fixer: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/27603-REG/Kodak_1971746_Fixer_for_Black.html
• A stop bath made from a dilution a distilled vinegar which is cheaper for me bc I already have it.

• Plastic containers to mix and temporarily store the chemicals in (Clorox containers, Soda bottles, Milk jugs?, etc.)
• A "safelight" to operate in the darkrrom: For me: http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/2-watt-g11-globe-bulb-360-degree/440/1477/
• 3 plastic trays: I am going to check my local dollar store for rays that I can throw away when we are done:if not; I plan on checking my local hardware store for no-hole seed trays: http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/13293/flats-trays-inserts
• A 15w lightbulb to make exposure for contact printing(may rig up something similar to a rectangular safelight to direct the light and use a filter) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122015-REG/General_Brand_15A15CL130_Lamp_15_watts.html
• A sheet of glass for contact printing
• Yellowish/#0 filter (optional) for reducing contrast
• A large tub of water or several smaller tubs to wash the prints in (which will continually be replaced)
• Plastic/latex gloves
• An Apron in case I am wearing nice clothes
• Clothespins w/ a place to hang up the photos to dry

My proposed process(highly edited):

*Keep in mind that the darkroom/developing will likely take place only in one day and not on several days during the week. ALSO I am on a semi-tight budget for the darkroom and materials; were talking around $60-70.

1) After constructing several pinhole cameras and collecting materials, I plan on getting the darkroom chemicals and supplies ready to be used. I will probably mix the chemicals the day b4 using the plastic containers mentioned above. The day of, I will pour them into the plastic trays to be ready to process the prints.

2) Once the darkroom is set up, I will open the RC VC Paper (mentioned above) and likely with the assistance of the kids, place it into pinhole cameras under the light of a "safelight" AKA red LEDs.

3) Once the pinhole cameras are stuffed and the shutters and lids are closed with out any light being able to get inside, I plan on taking them outside to be exposed to the scene. The kids will take the photos and record the times of the exposure in case the first one fails. But, I will have tested the pinholes cameras(focal length,etc.) and the light, etc beforehand to get a general idea of how long the exposure will take.

4) When the paper has been exposed, the cameras will be taken back to the darkroom(not in any hurry to develop though, and could wait 10 minutes or a couple of hours if a have to) A. take one of the photos out and insert it into the Kodak Dextol developer for 60-90, agitating the tray and/or moving the pics around with my hand continually(if im doing multiple prints at once) B. After the developer, I will let the photo drip off and then place it into a vinegar stop-bath for around 30 seconds. C. From there, I will move it to a Kodak Fixer solution, during which I will agitate continually for 2-4 minutes.. D. I will move it to a final water rinse for about 5 minutes, continually replacing water. E. For drying, I will let them drip dry on a a line.

5) If the photo turns out great, my goal is to make several positives from the negative I have just developed.(If not, another exposure/development will take place) This link describes the contact printing process: users.rcn.com/stewoody/darkcam2.htm says to put the developed negative emulsion-side down on top of an unexposed sheet of RC paper emulsion side up, and to lay a sheet a glass over the "photo sandwich". Upon completion, flash a 15W white light bulb 2-3 feet away for a couple of seconds. (I will have done tests beforehand to get right times) I also plan on using a filter to reduce the contrast if at all possible. I guess I will just tape it around the bulb? An other suggestions for reducing contrast? This link says to wet the negatives before you contact print them: http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/negatives/wet-contact-printing-negatives thoughts? If the positive turns out correct, development using the above mentioned processes will take place. I then plan on enclosing the prints in plastic photo sleeves for the kids the keep them safe.

Side note: If I(and students possibly) could potential be processing about 60 or 70 prints, how often should I replace the chemicals and which ones?

Side note 2: On the Kodak Dektol package(zoom in) it says "useful range: 3/4 to 3 minutes" what does that mean ; have anything to do wth replacing it?

Everyone who has commented has been unbelievably helpful so far and I am very grateful!

I can wait to actually make a camera and get to making some prints!

-Michael Griffith

 

[mesantacruz]

Okay, to answer your other question first, the light bulb from superbrightleds, has specifications, which are the right ones.
As for the chemicals, i think you have more than enough.... Actually, you usually dilute it 1 part dektol to 2 or 3 parts water. So from 1 gallon of dektol, you will get 4 gallons of what you can work with (looking on the website seems like there is no smaller bag).
The fixer does not need to be diluted. The gallon again should be more than enough, and you should replace it every 25 sheets more or less to be on the safe side. I don't know what the useful range means, but i think it has to do with how long to leave it in for? Just remember, to keep the photos in the developer for at least 1.5 min... which is complete development.

It might be useful, to mark each camera with a number... and write the times of proper exposure onto it as well (black marker)... e.g. pinhole camera no.1... expose for 25 seconds in broad daylight.

It's also important to wash the fixer off completely, so, make sure you wash for as long as time permits in the final water rinse. Remember, the final wash time only begins after you put the last piece in... so say you've been washing for 8 minutes, and you put a photo in out of the fixer... you need to start your time over again.

Given your time constraints, i would go with the wet negative contact printing... instead of waiting for the negative to dry, although it might be as short as 5-20 minutes (not completely, but enough to handle)....

As for the contrast, i don't know if that would work.

Again, thanks for willing to go through the effort of showing darkroom practices to the younger generations.

 

[Mark_S]

Side note: If I(and students possibly) could potential be processing about 60 or 70 prints, how often should I replace the chemicals and which ones?

Side note 2: On the Kodak Dektol package(zoom in) it says "useful range: 3/4 to 3 minutes" what does that mean ; have anything to do wth replacing it?

Everyone who has commented has been unbelievably helpful so far and I am very grateful!

I can wait to actually make a camera and get to making some prints!

-Michael Griffith

Clothesontheline

With regards to replacing the chemicals, don't worry too much about replacing the stop bath, you can use water for that if you want - it is the least important of the chemicals.

The developer will get slower and slower as you use it - but if I am printing on 8x10, I use 1L of working solution in a tray, and replace it about every 25 prints, if you are doing 5x7 you can probably do your 60 or 70 prints with one batch of developer.

The 'useful range' comment is how long it will take in the developer to develop the image - RC will be faster than fiber so a couple of minutes will be more than enough.

Fixer is trickier for determining life - I use Ilford Rapid fixer, which gets diluted 1:9 for paper. 1 L will last for about 20, 8x10 prints, which is about 40 5x7s, I think that what I would do if I were you is just mix up 2L of the solution, and that should handle all of the prints you generate in your printing session.

There is a special chemical that you can get to tell you if your fixer is still good, but since this is a one-shot deal for you, it is probably more trouble than it is worth.

A few thoughts:

You can make a pinhole camera from a paint can - take a nail and punch as small hole in the side of the can, then cover the hole with duct tape. In the dark, open the can, and tape your film or paper inside the can opposite the hole (paper will be curved along the side of the can). Put the lid back on the can. Now take the can out, and set it up, then remove the duct tape to make the exposure, and put it back after exposing. If using photo paper for your image, my guess is that you will need quite long exposures to get a good image (minutes, not seconds).

For your contact prints, you could do Cyanotypes - they have the advantage of not needing any chemicals for developing, you 'develop' in water. You can get a complete kit of the chemicals from photographers formulary. With Cyanotype you mix up the chemical, and then paint it on your paper to make your own photo paper - you can also paint it on fabric and print on a T-shirt.

 

[clothesontheline]

Clothesontheline

With regards to replacing the chemicals, don't worry too much about replacing the stop bath, you can use water for that if you want - it is the least important of the chemicals.

The developer will get slower and slower as you use it - but if I am printing on 8x10, I use 1L of working solution in a tray, and replace it about every 25 prints, if you are doing 5x7 you can probably do your 60 or 70 prints with one batch of developer.

The 'useful range' comment is how long it will take in the developer to develop the image - RC will be faster than fiber so a couple of minutes will be more than enough.

Fixer is trickier for determining life - I use Ilford Rapid fixer, which gets diluted 1:9 for paper. 1 L will last for about 20, 8x10 prints, which is about 40 5x7s, I think that what I would do if I were you is just mix up 2L of the solution, and that should handle all of the prints you generate in your printing session.

There is a special chemical that you can get to tell you if your fixer is still good, but since this is a one-shot deal for you, it is probably more trouble than it is worth.

A few thoughts:

You can make a pinhole camera from a paint can - take a nail and punch as small hole in the side of the can, then cover the hole with duct tape. In the dark, open the can, and tape your film or paper inside the can opposite the hole (paper will be curved along the side of the can). Put the lid back on the can. Now take the can out, and set it up, then remove the duct tape to make the exposure, and put it back after exposing. If using photo paper for your image, my guess is that you will need quite long exposures to get a good image (minutes, not seconds).

For your contact prints, you could do Cyanotypes - they have the advantage of not needing any chemicals for developing, you 'develop' in water. You can get a complete kit of the chemicals from photographers formulary. With Cyanotype you mix up the chemical, and then paint it on your paper to make your own photo paper - you can also paint it on fabric and print on a T-shirt.

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the info.. that is really helpful! For the pinholes, we had originally planned on doing them out of oatmeal boxes which would be very similar o the paint can thing you described... right now i think we have had some cigar boxes donated to us so we will probably use those. Thanks for the help though!

 

[clothesontheline]

Okay, to answer your other question first, the light bulb from superbrightleds, has specifications, which are the right ones.

For the LEDs, would ordering two be the best bet in case one doesn't work properly or one isn't bright enough to light the room by itself?

It might be useful, to mark each camera with a number... and write the times of proper exposure onto it as well (black marker)... e.g. pinhole camera no.1... expose for 25 seconds in broad daylight.

It's also important to wash the fixer off completely, so, make sure you wash for as long as time permits in the final water rinse. Remember, the final wash time only begins after you put the last piece in... so say you've been washing for 8 minutes, and you put a photo in out of the fixer... you need to start your time over again.

Nice tip for the cameras! And yes, I plan on rinsing each print for atleast 5 minutes each.

Again, thanks for willing to go through the effort of showing darkroom practices to the younger generations.

No problem, I am glad to do it and I'm sure Ill have just as much fun and be just as informed as they are. Im just doing my job.