B&W Paper Printing for a Beginner

[clothesontheline]

The extra time will help! Will 5 kids work one day/ 5 the next? Or is it more like Photo Day Wednesday and camp's out Friday?

More like Photo Day Wednesday..

 

[clothesontheline]

This ? is for anyone willing to answer: What is the difference between RC Graded Paper and RC Variable Contrast Paper..............Additionally, what do the different grades in graded paper mean?

 

[Bill Burk]

Grade is the contrast between black and white, think like the grade of a hill. Steep is contrasty (5) Gentle slope is flat (1). Grade 2 or 3 is normal. With variable contrast you can use purple (5) to yellow (1) filters to get any number in-between.

Probably won't matter to you because you just want to get results. The grades are usually used to refine the look.

A respected subscriber here, Ralph Lambrecht wrote a book which we all love called "Way Beyond Monochrome" - On his website www.waybeyondmonochrome.com he has sample chapters, including one for how to poke a pinhole. Basically start with a ballpoint pen to dent... then follow-up with a pin to make the hole.

 

[polyglot]

This ? is for anyone willing to answer: What is the difference between RC Graded Paper and RC Variable Contrast Paper..............Additionally, what do the different grades in graded paper mean?

VC paper has multiple emulsion layers of different contrast. The high contrast layers are sensitive to bluer light, the low contrast layers are sensitive to green light. When making a print, you use a coloured filter to control the light colour and therefore the contrast of your final print. Because the paper produces varying contrast with exposure colour, you will find that blue items in your scene are rendered with high contrast and green items are rendered with low contrast. Red items will be black because paper is insensitive to red.

Graded paper has a single layer of fixed contrast. However it's often only blue-sensitive, which means that both red and green items in the scene will be black, which makes it difficult to get a good image.

You might consider buying a small quantity of green-sensitive X-ray film. It's extremely cheap - see links on LFPF for sources. That would get you more latitude, far better exposure speed (10x), no weird colour/contrast variation and you can process it under safelight. If you use (for example) Ilford PQ Universal developer, it can develop both the film and the paper.

Definitely you can/should test your exposures with strips (or small tiles) of paper. Hence the term "test strip".

 

[clothesontheline]

So, basically RC graded paper is just a way to know the contrast(with 2-3 being the normal levels), but what is variable contrast paper and why is it different between lets say a 2 or a 3

 

[Bill Burk]

(Simplified) It has a layer sensitive to blue and a layer sensitive to green. By using different color light to expose it you get different steepness of contrast all in one sheet. You can make it be anything from 1 to 5 and everything in-between. With graded paper, you get one grade (2 for example) and that's it.

The variable contrast paper is usually designed so white light gets you a normal grade result. So you probably won't have to worry about it. Just get the cheapest. People who do pinhole photography may have a preference of grade. So ask around. I didn't think there was a strong preference, but pinhole photography is very popular. Maybe there IS some preference.

 

[clothesontheline]

Alright never mind, just read polyglots' post; now i get it. SO, for my project, would RC Variable be the best fit for best and simple results, or would you recommend a certain grade of the RC graded paper?

A think I'd like to stay away from film for this simple project, but why were the reasons you suggested the film and how would it benefit me?

Any comments on my post about direct positives?

-Thanks

 

[clothesontheline]

(Simplified) It has a layer sensitive to blue and a layer sensitive to green. By using different color light to expose it you get different steepness of contrast all in one sheet. You can make it be anything from 1 to 5 and everything in-between. With graded paper, you get one grade (2 for example) and that's it.

By using " different color light to expose it" does that just mean the different colors which are shown in the scene at which the camera is pointed, or does it mean using a color filter on a lens?

 

[Bill Burk]

By using " different color light to expose it" does that just mean the different colors which are shown in the scene at which the camera is pointed, or does it mean using a color filter on a lens?

In the pinhole camera, light from various parts of the scene will have "interesting" effects as the different things in the pictures will have different contrasts. But there will be nothing "wrong". I don't believe it is common to use a filter on the cameras.

The variable contrast feature in the paper is designed for the darkroom. For example you change the color of the light from the light bulb that you use to make that final print. They make sets of filters that go from rich magenta/purple to strong yellow.

 

[Bill Burk]

The direct positive paper looks like it is just as easy to develop as the RC variable contrast paper. This is a big plus. Neat stuff, worth a serious look.

The pinhole is critical - you take charge of that and make all the pinholes the same. If kids made pinholes they'd be big and small and there would be more exposure mistakes.

So you send 5 kids out with 5 pinhole cameras and maybe 3 from the group comes out OK. You could still make copies just the same from one of the prints that came out to another sheet of direct positive paper.

Your original plan is fine too, if you want to stick to it. You make prints from the best paper negatives. Guaranteed results.

 

[NedL]

I think you got great answers here, and polyglot covered most of it. I too suggest a dry run, and if you jury rig a safelight from a bicycle tail light or something else, you might want to double check that it's okay with your paper. ( I have a red cfl, and it's fine with Ilford MGIV and Adorama brand VC papers, but it fogs the Arista.edu brand VC paper. ) I've used all three in my pinhole cameras with fine results.

 

[clothesontheline]

The direct positive paper looks like it is just as easy to develop as the RC variable contrast paper. This is a big plus. Neat stuff, worth a serious look.

So you send 5 kids out with 5 pinhole cameras and maybe 3 from the group comes out OK. You could still make copies just the same from one of the prints that came out to another sheet of direct positive paper.

How could I make a positive-copy from a direct positive? Wouldn't I first need to contact print the direct pos. into a negative, and then make several positives from that negative? Or is there an easier way?

TO ALL: I would loooovvvve a cut&dry answer to my question of which type of photography paper to get for my project as described throughout this forum... At this point I think that I should get between 75 and 100 sheets of 5x7 paper, and am heading toward VC b/c I am not a pro and dont really want to mess with the graded stuff. All I want is a solid print. For VC, do I need "filters" of any type or are they just for special effects. Also, If I do acquire an actual red-filtered safelight, does it matter which brand I get for VC: Arista.EDU? Kentmere? Are you guys familiar with Adox? Or should I not risk it and go with the high quality Ilford?

THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO POSTED ON THIS FORUM TO HELP ME OUT!! You guys have been so kind and willing to spend tons of time with my project and for that I am grateful..

Please continue to post and add tips and suggestions in ANY areas that you see fit.

 

[Bill Burk]

The neat trick with direct positive paper is that every time you use it you make another positive. So when you put the paper in the camera and develop it you get a positive, and if you use the positive paper to print from a positive you get another positive.

The direct positive paper uses a "red" safelight, which means a bicycle tail lamp or even a common flashlight with a red filter can work, you might even find one at camp already. The other papers use an "amber" safelight which isn't common at hardware stores.

If you do go with Variable Contrast Resin Coated paper, then you will need to print every shot. No requirement to use filters, those are just refinements.

With the direct positive paper you might not have to print very many because many of the prints might just come out.

This kind of paper wasn't very common historically or even a few years back. Direct positive used to require different chemistry, several steps, or was specialized graphic arts material.

 

[polyglot]

Bill: the DPP processes identically, but it is FB which is going to be a problem to wash...

How could I make a positive-copy from a direct positive? Wouldn't I first need to contact print the direct pos. into a negative, and then make several positives from that negative? Or is there an easier way?

You would contact-print it onto another positive sheet. However, DPP is high contrast (as are all these papers), which means the copy will be even-higher contrast and basically useless (all detail lost in both highlights and shadows). Best way to copy it is with a photocopier

TO ALL: I would loooovvvve a cut&dry answer to my question of which type of photography paper to get for my project as described throughout this forum... At this point I think that I should get between 75 and 100 sheets of 5x7 paper, and am heading toward VC b/c I am not a pro and dont really want to mess with the graded stuff. All I want is a solid print. For VC, do I need "filters" of any type or are they just for special effects. Also, If I do acquire an actual red-filtered safelight, does it matter which brand I get for VC: Arista.EDU? Kentmere? Are you guys familiar with Adox? Or should I not risk it and go with the high quality Ilford?

Buy the cheapest RC VC Gloss that you can get enough of; personally I would suggest the 100x5x7 Arista.EDU unless the shipping makes another brand cheaper. They are all excellent quality with no risks attaching to any of them. Kentmere has a speed advantage but it's not necessary. Use red LEDs for the safelight and it will be fine for all the brands. Don't buy FB (it's harder to process), don't buy graded (no greens!), get Gloss finish because it will contact-print the cleanest.

You don't strictly need filters. Filters are intended for darkroom printing when deciding how to interpret a negative onto the print, they allow you to adjust contrast. Exposing the paper directly to scene light is a bit of an abuse and will result in wonky contrasts but there's basically nothing you can do about it with this cheap approach so ignore it. If you want to avoid that problem, use film because that's what's designed to capture a scene.

If your prints have too much contrast (very likely), use a yellowish filter under the lightbulb when making the prints from the negatives. If your friend has a set of Multigrade filters, try to borrow the #0 filter. You can also try using a yellowish filter in front of the pin-hole to reduce contrast a bit. Consider it advanced technique for trying once you've had a few successes.

 

[Bill Burk]

Dangit Polyglot you're right. Why did I think I saw Resin Coated in the description. I must have been wishing.

clothesontheline, Polyglot's given you the straight scoop... run with it!

 

[Nige]

I've used VC RC paper as pinholes and in my experience they benefit from taping a multigrade filter behind the pinhole to reduce contrast, however it still works fine without it. For your project I'd be inclined to get a box of 100 of whatever's the cheapest RC paper (VC or graded.. if graded make it G2 rather than G3) as you're not going to have the time or filters to start playing with that aspect anyway.

For handmade pinholes, you need to test/measure the hole size and use the focal length of your camera to work out the working aperture to calculate exposure times for the slow (roughly ISO4) paper. You might get 15sec exposures with film, but paper will be more like 2-3minutes, maybe longer depending on light (of course!). I measure my pinholes by projecting them in my enlarger and measuring then calculating based on enlargement factor, but you can do something similar by scanning them on a flatbed scanner and doing some pixel measuring and math. Alternatively, test them in the field, although if you're using different containers as the 'camera', each combo to be used will need testing.

Other random thoughts...

Get a safelight so the kids can watch the developing... that's a definite 'wow' part of the process.
You can develop multiple sheets at once, just keep them moving in the developer (and stop, fix & wash)
An un-filtered VC paper is generally approx 2->2.5 grade equivalent
Paper comes in different surfaces (usually gloss levels). I've always used a low sheen (Ilford Satin or Pearl, Agfa Semi-matt), not sure if that's a recommendation or maybe someone will suggest to use 'Gloss' for some reason. I personally don't like gloss for anything so maybe I'm biased

 

[Simon R Galley]

Hi Michael,

PM me your home address and I will send the ILFORD Multigrade printing manual, it should help and is easy to follow, the principal is the same no matter who's Variable Contract Paper you are using.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

 

[clothesontheline]

Buy the cheapest RC VC Gloss that you can get enough of; personally I would suggest the 100x5x7 Arista.EDU unless the shipping makes another brand cheaper. They are all excellent quality with no risks attaching to any of them. Kentmere has a speed advantage but it's not necessary. Use red LEDs for the safelight and it will be fine for all the brands. Don't buy FB (it's harder to process), don't buy graded (no greens!), get Gloss finish because it will contact-print the cleanest.

You don't strictly need filters. Filters are intended for darkroom printing when deciding how to interpret a negative onto the print, they allow you to adjust contrast. Exposing the paper directly to scene light is a bit of an abuse and will result in wonky contrasts but there's basically nothing you can do about it with this cheap approach so ignore it. If you want to avoid that problem, use film because that's what's designed to capture a scene.

If your prints have too much contrast (very likely), use a yellowish filter under the lightbulb when making the prints from the negatives. If your friend has a set of Multigrade filters, try to borrow the #0 filter. You can also try using a yellowish filter in front of the pin-hole to reduce contrast a bit. Consider it advanced technique for trying once you've had a few successes.

Hey Polyglot!

Thanks so much for your time and the extremely valuable info you have given me. I would buy the Arista.EDU, but other freestyle supplies are not as cheap as B&H and so I will probably buy from Oriental: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...VC57_100F_Seagull_VC_RCII_5x7_100_Glossy.html or Ilford, which is obviously a great brand. I am considering buying 25 8x10 and cutting them into 100 4x5. Thoughts? And would gloss be the best for contact printing other than something like pearl?

I dont want to use film b/c it is too technical/expensive + I really want the kids to understand the photographic process and film might be too abstract/ out there for them to fully grasp the concept also like I've said before the Image doesn't have to be AMAZING, just good enough for the kids to realize that a good photographic CAN be taken in an easy and makeable way without having to use some extremely techy device where all you do is press a button and a photo is "magically" recorded. However, any more tips to produce the best possible photo with the method of contact paper printing would be helpful. Would the filter idea be the best?

My friend got back to me on his photo supplies and unfortunately he didn't have a red safelight( or developing trays(the two things I really needed). Is there any place on here where I can post to find out if someone who lives in my area would let me borrow some of their photo stuff? My friend said "I have an enlarger, filters and a couple of lenses. I have a timer (for the enlarger) and a 35mm developing tank. I have a couple of clips to hang film to dry and an easel." Would any of this be helpful in the project. I can send you a photo if you want.

I plan on editing the original process I first posted with all the new information I have gathered. It would be great if you or any others would review the process once I have it posted to check for any flaws and add suggestions. Thanks again!

 

[clothesontheline]

Hi Michael,

PM me your home address and I will send the ILFORD Multigrade printing manual, it should help and is easy to follow, the principal is the same no matter who's Variable Contract Paper you are using.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Could I get the same information here: http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=25

 

[Nige]

if you can affoard it, 5x7 paper will make nicer images to view/hold than 4x5.

However, any more tips to produce the best possible photo with the method of contact paper printing would be helpful. Would the filter idea be the best?

For a pinhole, getting the right sized pinhole for the desired focal length is important to getting recognisable pictures. Try playing with this to see how the ideal pinhole size will vary with focal length and 'neg' size.

My friend said "I have an enlarger, filters and a couple of lenses. I have a timer (for the enlarger) and a 35mm developing tank. I have a couple of clips to hang film to dry and an easel." Would any of this be helpful in the project.

the enlarger/timer (assuming it has a lens and working globe) would be handy for making the contact prints of your paper negatives.

 

[polyglot]

Hey Polyglot!

Thanks so much for your time and the extremely valuable info you have given me. I would buy the Arista.EDU, but other freestyle supplies are not as cheap as B&H and so I will probably buy from Oriental: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...VC57_100F_Seagull_VC_RCII_5x7_100_Glossy.html or Ilford, which is obviously a great brand. I am considering buying 25 8x10 and cutting them into 100 4x5. Thoughts? And would gloss be the best for contact printing other than something like pearl?

The Oriental would be fine I'm sure. If you must buy 8x10 and cut it, you probably want to use a guillotine or rotary trimmer with a fence/guide because anything scissor-cut is going to be annoyingly uneven and hard to fit into your cameras. It might also be better to cut it to 50 sheets of 5x8", if only to reduce your work by half! And don't cut all the paper at once; you don't want to discover that your darkroom was insufficiently dark and that you've ruined the whole pack, so pull a couple sheets out, cut and expose them. Then repeat, cutting paper as you require it.

Gloss will give the cleanest result. You may get a slight texture from the lustre surface during contact printing but that's not necessarily a bad thing and it might be quite appealing. It might also make the prints look grainier and/or sharper, depending on where your contact-print light is placed and whether it's diffused.

I dont want to use film b/c it is too technical/expensive + I really want the kids to understand the photographic process and film might be too abstract/ out there for them to fully grasp the concept also like I've said before the Image doesn't have to be AMAZING, just good enough for the kids to realize that a good photographic CAN be taken in an easy and makeable way without having to use some extremely techy device where all you do is press a button and a photo is "magically" recorded. However, any more tips to produce the best possible photo with the method of contact paper printing would be helpful. Would the filter idea be the best?

Film isn't any more abstract than a paper negative, they're both negative images on a support. The film is clear and has better performance for image capture whereas paper has a bunch of additional complications (the contrast control), though I agree on price. If you talk to people here or on LFPF, you might be able to score a small quantity of cheap green X-Ray film if someone living near you has it spare (it's about $40 for 100 sheets of 8x10, you would probably do fine with 20 sheets of 5x8" therefore 10 sheets of 8x10" for about $5). I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a small donation to play with as there are plenty of people keen to get kids involved.

I'd donate you some film but the postage from Australia makes it quite uneconomical and I don't have anything orthochromatic.

My friend got back to me on his photo supplies and unfortunately he didn't have a red safelight( or developing trays(the two things I really needed). Is there any place on here where I can post to find out if someone who lives in my area would let me borrow some of their photo stuff? My friend said "I have an enlarger, filters and a couple of lenses. I have a timer (for the enlarger) and a 35mm developing tank. I have a couple of clips to hang film to dry and an easel." Would any of this be helpful in the project. I can send you a photo if you want.

Yes, borrow his filters. Try using the #0 filter for making the exposure and when contact printing. Borrow the enlarger timer and use that to get consistent times when making the contact prints. The easel might be useful for contact printing, but a slab of glass will be far better.

Use old icecream tubs or plastic buckets for trays. I refuse to believe you can't scrounge an old red-LED bike taillight either.

 

[polyglot]

In fact, you could do the whole thing using X-ray film instead of paper. Follow the exact same process and you will end up with positive images on plastic instead of paper, i.e. transparencies. The "white" bits might not be very clear though.

 

[Simon R Galley]

No you can't, although there is a huge amount of information available, the book is better as you can refer to it when working, I'll send a few extra for the kids if they want to read up after doing the prints with you.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

 

[Rick A]

Dear clothesontheline
maybe you should consider doing lumen prints(aka sun prints). All you need is expired paper, a piece of plexi to hold it down, and a few items to lay between the paper and plexi(kids choice). Just expose in the sun for anywhere from a few short minutes to several hours. A gentle wash in water, no chems needed, and let dry to finish. If this sounds more interresting (and much easier), contact me and I will donate a large box of paper to your cause. BTW, you can visit the "lumens" group here to see some fantastic results.

 

[clothesontheline]

Dear clothesontheline
maybe you should consider doing lumen prints(aka sun prints). All you need is expired paper, a piece of plexi to hold it down, and a few items to lay between the paper and plexi(kids choice). Just expose in the sun for anywhere from a few short minutes to several hours. A gentle wash in water, no chems needed, and let dry to finish. If this sounds more interresting (and much easier), contact me and I will donate a large box of paper to your cause. BTW, you can visit the "lumens" group here to see some fantastic results.

Hey Rick,

Thanks for the recommendation! I think I'm going to stick with paper negatives from pinholes, but I think this would be great too, especially if there is some time to fill in during camp and the kids could continue to learn about light and sensitivity. If you want to donate some expired paper to the art camp for sun prints, it would be appreciated! Can you give me a little more in-depth process as to how it works, the steps, and what I need? Also, would regular glass work or do I need plexi? I'll message you some contact info if you still seem interested/ willing to donate.