Astrum IR B+W Negative, or IR-200

[MCB18]

Hi all!

I recently bought some “Astrum IR B+W Negative” film (I’m just going to call it IR-200), and was told it was very similar to Foto-200 film, but with a 775nm upper limit into IR as opposed to the typical 750nm. Honestly I thought it wouldn’t make much of a difference, but I bought some just to see. I decided to do an experiment with IR-200 and Foto-200, to see if IR-200 is actually more IR-sensitive like they claim. Right out of the tank, I do think I see a difference. Maybe it’s confirmation bias, idk. Looks like the IR-200 (left) might be like, half a stop faster than regular Foto-200?


These films were shot in 2 different film backs on my RB67 within minutes of each other in the sun with no change in lighting conditions. The film was loaded into the same development tank and developed at 68°F for 8.5 minutes, as suggested by massive dev chart and FPP (who sells the IR film under their own brand). EI from bottom to top of both rolls is 25, 50, 100, 200. (Yes I know, that’s a bit high, I meant to start at EI 12 but accidentally set the wrong shutter speed when I started).

Do you guys have any thoughts on this?

 

[Wolfram Malukker]

Might want to mention, those ISO ratings are when shot through an R72 filter, right?

Do you have some Aviphot that you've shot at 25-40-100-200 through the same filter?

 

[MCB18]

Might want to mention, those ISO ratings are when shot through an R72 filter, right?

Do you have some Aviphot that you've shot at 25-40-100-200 through the same filter?

Yes, this is all through an IR filter.

I might shoot some Foto-100 in the same, which I’m almost certain is Aviphot 200, the same way to see what happens. I suspect it’ll be near identical to Foto-200 based on my past experiences.

 

[MCB18]

Just developed a full roll of this film, and it looks good!

Each of these sets from top to bottom is EI 12, 25, 50:




Control image of visible light at 200 ISO to verify correct development:


And, a quick and dirty invert on my phone:


Honestly, I think EI 12 looks slightly overexposed. EI 25 looks perfect for printing, and EI 50 is maybe a bit underexposed, but for scanning it should be fine.

Pretty cool stuff I think!

 

[koraks]

Yeah, 25 looks good - neat!

 

[MCB18]

I am hoping that I can get them scanned professionally, but my local store is backed up because their lab tech quit… I’ll try to get scans at home.

 

[MCB18]

Scans are back, and holy crap this film is super awesome.

All taken on an RB67 with a 90mm lens and Zomei filter. Unless otherwise noted, all images are IR.

Visible light, EI 200 (control, to ensure development was correct)


EI 50


EI 25


EI 12



EI 50


EI 25:


EI 12



EI 50


EI 25


EI 12

• 12 to me looks almost overexposed. But maybe that’s just me. You can see some of the shadows get crushed. There’s a bit of that with 25 as well, but to a lesser extent.
• 50 looks absolutely stunning, and I would have zero issues using this as a 50 speed IR film, but the sky isn’t quite as dark as I’d like.
• 25 seems like a nice sweet spot in my opinion.

What thoughts do you guys have?

 

[argent_negre]

Very interesting. Where did you get the film, if I may ask?

 

[jonathanchli]

Scans are back, and holy crap this film is super awesome.

All taken on an RB67 with a 90mm lens and Hoya R72 filter. Unless otherwise noted, all images are IR.

Visible light, EI 200 (control, to ensure development was correct)
View attachment 407066

EI 50
View attachment 407067

EI 25
View attachment 407068

EI 12
View attachment 407069


EI 50
View attachment 407070

EI 25:
View attachment 407071

EI 12
View attachment 407072


EI 50
View attachment 407073

EI 25
View attachment 407074

EI 12
View attachment 407075

• 12 to me looks almost overexposed. But maybe that’s just me. You can see some of the shadows get crushed. There’s a bit of that with 25 as well, but to a lesser extent.
• 50 looks absolutely stunning, and I would have zero issues using this as a 50 speed IR film, but the sky isn’t quite as dark as I’d like.
• 25 seems like a nice sweet spot in my opinion.

What thoughts do you guys have?

Interesting results... Do you expect the overall Wood Effect is more prominent in EI50 (less light exposure) than E12 (more light exposure), across 3 sets of test photos? Will the high altitude of Colorado attenuate less infrared radiation so that you can use less filter factor than HOYA suggested? HOYA R72 suggests a filter factor of 16+, ie. need to add ≥4 stops of exposure.

 

[MCB18]

Very interesting. Where did you get the film, if I may ask?

Astrum! I’m planning on buying this film in the next bug group buy from them, probably starting in a few months.

Interesting results... Do you expect the overall Wood Effect is more prominent in EI50 (less light exposure) than E12 (more light exposure), across 3 sets of test photos? Will the high altitude of Colorado attenuate less infrared radiation so that you can use less filter factor than HOYA suggested? HOYA R72 suggests a filter factor of 16+, ie. need to add ≥4 stops of exposure.

Honestly, yes, it does kind of look like the wood effect is more prominent at lower speeds. What exactly this means I’m not sure, although my best guess is that it might be because a 720nm filter lets too much visible light hit the film. In my sleep deprived state I seem to have put that I used a Hoya R72, which is not the case, I used an equivalent filter by Zonei that blocks up to 720nm.

I might look into getting a 740-760nm filter to see how that affects shooting.

As far as the altitude thing, Dean Bennici says this shouldn’t affect things very much.

Q: Do I expose differently at high altitudes?

A: This is another misunderstanding. Yes, the film speed does decrease as you gain altitude, but this is only if your feet are off the ground. For instance, in a plane of hot air balloon. If you are at a high altitude, like on a mountain, but your feet are on the ground, you really do not need to adjust much.

 

[pentaxuser]

I wonder who makes it? As it produces good IR type photos from say 50 to 12 might it be Foma 400 IR? It wasn't clear to me from a very long thread titled: " Let me introduce you to Svema" in Jan 2023 how much Svema/Astrum is actually able to do in terms of film making

pentaxuser

 

[MCB18]

I wonder who makes it? As it produces good IR type photos from say 50 to 12 might it be Foma 400 IR? It wasn't clear to me from a very long thread titled: " Let me introduce you to Svema" in Jan 2023 how much Svema/Astrum is actually able to do in terms of film making

pentaxuser

I am unsure what it is, but best guess is that it’s a Tasma stock. It’s on an extremely thin base (0.06mm) so definitely not Foma, if they ever coated aerial film, let alone IR film, this would be news to me.

And yeah, these guys can do a lot with film. More than even I realized. Currently they’re making some 16” wide rolls of film for Cirkut cameras! Honestly I didn’t expect them to say yes to that request haha

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

It's probably Aviphot, like all other repacked IR films out there.

 

[MCB18]

It's probably Aviphot, like all other repacked IR films out there.

This is what I thought as well, honestly. But even Aviphot doesn’t respond this well to IR in my experience, usually it tops out around EI25 and is very obviously underexposed at EI50.

I’ll have to see if I have some Foto-100 (which I’m pretty certain is Aviphot 200) lying around for a comparison.

 

[loccdor]

If it looks good at 25, that's an improvement over Aviphot 200 and Scala 50/HR-50, both of which I found shoot best at 6 with a 720 filter.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

@MCB18 is the film base extremely thin?

 

[MCB18]

@MCB18 is the film base extremely thin?

0.06mm yeah.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

In the words of Sgt. Schultz, Veeerrrrryyyy intarestinku!

 

[pentaxuser]

It might be Lucky as in we'll be lucky if we can reach a conclusion on whose film it is? After all we couldn't reach a conclusion on Svema/Astrum in multiple pages in Jan 23 when someone from the Ukraine said "Let me introduce you to Svema"

pentaxuser

 

[Sanug]

I’ll have to see if I have some Foto-100 (which I’m pretty certain is Aviphot 200) lying around for a comparison.

Foto-100 should be Astrum/Tasma, not Agfa Aviphot.

Analog Amsterdam Foto100 135/36 - Analog Amsterdam

NOW100 is a panchromatic medium speed (100 ASA) black-and-white negative camera film for both outdoor and indoor usage, and CHEAP.

analogamsterdam.com

 

[MCB18]

Foto-100 should be Astrum/Tasma, not Agfa Aviphot.

Analog Amsterdam Foto100 135/36 - Analog Amsterdam

NOW100 is a panchromatic medium speed (100 ASA) black-and-white negative camera film for both outdoor and indoor usage, and CHEAP.

analogamsterdam.com

Astrum does not coat their own films, sadly. The large film coating line has been confirmed to be destroyed as of 2022 by Russian bombings. They do have a smaller magnetic tape coater, and a whole bunch of equipment for cutting unfinished film. But at least for the past few years, possibly even before that, they have not produced any of their own film.

There are still an excellent company to work with though, as they can finish film they do have in a great variety of different sizes, and cheaply (around the cost of FOMA here in the US). Most companies can’t compete with their service unless you are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars. Ilford comes the closest, but it is very expensive in comparison.

 

[polaromar]

Foto-100 should be Astrum/Tasma, not Agfa Aviphot.

Analog Amsterdam Foto100 135/36 - Analog Amsterdam

NOW100 is a panchromatic medium speed (100 ASA) black-and-white negative camera film for both outdoor and indoor usage, and CHEAP.

analogamsterdam.com

This is correct. Foto-100, and all of its derivatives/rebrands, is almost certainly Tasma Type 25L.

The best way to tell it apart would be to shoot a roll of it alongside Aviphot 200. Type-25L has significantly higher contrast and lower IR sensitivity - but greater blue & green sensitivity - than Aviphot.

The 775nm IR film is Aviphot 80, Rollei also advertises it on their respooled Retro 80S. Aviphot 80 has extended IR sensitivity as per Agfa:

.

 

[MCB18]

This is correct. Foto-100, and all of its derivatives/rebrands, is almost certainly Tasma Type 25L.

The best way to tell it apart would be to shoot a roll of it alongside Aviphot 200. Type-25L has significantly higher contrast and lower IR sensitivity - but greater blue & green sensitivity - than Aviphot.

The 775nm IR film is Aviphot 80, Rollei also advertises it on their respooled Retro 80S. Aviphot 80 has extended IR sensitivity as per Agfa:

View attachment 408613

Honestly, when I started, I would have told you that this was just Aviphot 200, but I do not believe that this film that I am currently experimenting with is Aviphot. I have played with both 80 and 200 a bunch at this point, and neither give me as good of results at higher EI than this film. Aviphot 200 is very clearly under exposed when I shoot it at EI 25.

My best results on Aviphot have been with EI 12 using 200, meanwhile, with this stuff I can confidently say that EI 50 works very well. It’s very moment, I’m actually walking around my neighborhood shooting some shots at EI 50, hopefully I’ll have the film processed and scanned soon.

I would very much like to know what this film is, currently my best guess is Aviphot 400, but I just don’t know.

 

[Wolfram Malukker]

And I can say quite certainly it is not Tasma 25L, as 25L has a bright yellow-orange antihalation dye that washes out, similar to how Foma's green/blue washout happens, or Tasma 42L's dark olive green washout.

Astrum does sell Tasma 25L as A-2SH though, and it is a 400 speed film with zero IR sensitivity.

 

[polaromar]

Honestly, when I started, I would have told you that this was just Aviphot 200, but I do not believe that this film that I am currently experimenting with is Aviphot. I have played with both 80 and 200 a bunch at this point, and neither give me as good of results at higher EI than this film. Aviphot 200 is very clearly under exposed when I shoot it at EI 25.

My best results on Aviphot have been with EI 12 using 200, meanwhile, with this stuff I can confidently say that EI 50 works very well. It’s very moment, I’m actually walking around my neighborhood shooting some shots at EI 50, hopefully I’ll have the film processed and scanned soon.

I would very much like to know what this film is, currently my best guess is Aviphot 400, but I just don’t know.

Honestly, I think I need to get a couple rolls. Being able to do IR photography at EI 50 makes life significantly easier. How did you get your rolls?

It's not Tasma as Wolfram said, Tasma doesn't make any IR sensitive film. Aviphot 400 is the only other possibility I can think of too, it also has extended IR sensitivity, but it's been out of production for over a decade now. If Astrum has the last pancakes of that stock, that would be quite the surprise.

And I can say quite certainly it is not Tasma 25L, as 25L has a bright yellow-orange antihalation dye that washes out, similar to how Foma's green/blue washout happens, or Tasma 42L's dark olive green washout.

Astrum does sell Tasma 25L as A-2SH though, and it is a 400 speed film with zero IR sensitivity.

Is A-2Sh 25L? I was under the assumption that A-2SH was 42L. Foto-400 is 42L I believe, because Dragonfilm respools it from Svema, and they labeled it as Type-42L on their website.