Art photography according to curators...

[wfe]

i guess this is another "photographers, curators, and judges are talentless,
and promote "bad photography" / "bad art" " threads ...
a lot of this is true and always will be true, ... but, it sells ...

if it really matters so much who the curators or judges are ...
if you don't like the contests they are judging, or the exhibitions they are showing

don't go ... and start your own ...

it isn't hard to rent a space and start your own gallery, or have your own contests
but the problem is, if your place becomes popular, or trendy, or shows "talent" then you become
just like the things you were trying to get away from ( in other people's eyes )

Well said John.

 

[John Austin]

WOW - This has just arrived in my email "in tray" from a state photographic art self appointed "peak body" - It is a quote from that state's gov't art gallery's curator of photography

"The *** embraces the fluidity and endless openness of the ceaselessly multiplying image world. And it is of course none again when the idea of the professional photographer is being turned over, lost re-found.

***
Curator of Contemporary Art & Photography
Art Gallery of ***"

No, I don't understand it and want a member of APUG to translate for me - I have asked a close friend to translate and he was merely abusive

 

[batwister]

"The *** embraces the fluidity and endless openness of the ceaselessly multiplying image world. And it is of course none again when the idea of the professional photographer is being turned over, lost re-found.

***
Curator of Contemporary Art & Photography
Art Gallery of ***"

What language do you speak in Australia again?

 

[John Austin]

Australia? - I did not specify Australia (I need to keep my images moving)

I won't repeat my friend's response to this gem of the English language, as I fear excommunication from the APUG brother and sisterhood if I repeat it, I have tottered on this brink before

(Please do not make a note of the hastily inserted PCism)

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I've always thought of photography as a kind of curatorial practice.

By selecting, organizing, and assembling a body of work, a photographer is curating found objects/his visions/etc.

When you look at the obsessive-compulsiveness of certain 35mm photographers, you can't help but think that they are trying to put together the largest acquisition ever. They would surely benefit from some curatorial knowledge to organize their weeding out of their stuff.

 

[slackercrurster]

Curators are mainly art history majors, not artists or photogs themselves. In 2018, roughly 65% to 70% of the curators of photography at museums are women.

Here was one art museum that had an 89% women curatorial crew. (did not figure gender % currently.)

https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/about/curatorial_staff/

 

[Maris]

It is possible to advance the argument that the ultimate artist in a world absolutely saturated with pictures is the curator. There are already more than enough pictures to exhaust anyone's capacity to look at them, even glance at them. But this huge accretion of images can be abridged, edited, sequenced, annotated, and displayed to, in effect, create a new work and invoke new appreciations. A creative curator does this.

 

[Valerie]

Curators are mainly art history majors, not artists or photogs themselves. In 2018, roughly 65% to 70% of the curators of photography at museums are women.

Here was one art museum that had an 89% women curatorial crew. (did not figure gender % currently.)

https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/about/curatorial_staff/

What does the high percentage of women curators have to do with this topic? (It could be seen that you are implying that the problem with curators is that they are largely women.)
Or the fact that most curators are not photographers? Curation is about selection and organization of something (in the case of this thread, photographic images). Must one be a photographer to do that effectively? My friend has selected and organized (curated) a lovely, stylish, somewhat unique closet of clothes and has an above-average knowledge of fashion history, yet does not sew....

 

[jim10219]

I have a good friend who is a successful artist and spent several years curating a pretty decent museum (the best in our state, anyway). I don’t think it’s that rare for an artist to curate a museum. I think it’s more a common slight frustrated artists use to explain why their work isn’t accepted.

In fact, I run into more of the opposite problem. There’s an annual photography contest here that I enter in every year, and I like to complain that the judges know nothing about art history, are terrible artists themselves, and got their positions from social connections, not merit. They have a habit of selecting photos of children, horses, cowboys, and Christian themes regardless of the quality of the photo itself. Some of the photos that win awards don’t even belong in the categories they’re entered in (how is a bland photo of a crucifix on a leaf on the ground a landscape?). But then again, I do tend to win a bunch of awards, and it’s clearly unrealistic to think you deserve first place in every category. So while I certainly think it’s biased, I really shouldn’t complain because I make out better than most people. And to be fair, photos of cute kids, horses, cowboys, and Christian themes (as well as Native Americans) is what sells around here. I think people will always find something to complain about when things don’t go their way.

 

[removed account4]

hi valierie !
if you ask me, the more women in positions of power and stature the better.

i know what you mean jim, there is always something to complain about and what i think is kind of funny
is sometimes i've seen the people who complain the loudest end up doing whatever it was they complained about the others not doing well
and they do it 10x worse gotta always keep them guessing is what i think. and i don't think there should be any categories
in these judged competitions cause as you saw, one person's landscape is another person's something else ..

YMMV

 

[Arklatexian]

What does the high percentage of women curators have to do with this topic? (It could be seen that you are implying that the problem with curators is that they are largely women.)
Or the fact that most curators are not photographers? Curation is about selection and organization of something (in the case of this thread, photographic images). Must one be a photographer to do that effectively? My friend has selected and organized (curated) a lovely, stylish, somewhat unique closet of clothes and has an above-average knowledge of fashion history, yet does not sew....

In my lifetime which is the greater part of a century, all photography has had its "Curators". They were called "Editors, Photo Judges, Museum Curators, Gallery Owners, Buyers and others". All "judged" photographs according to their "needs". In most cases each need was different. I haven't seen a Photo Salon in years but that and perhaps Photo Galleries are the only two that cared anything about the "Art". The rest had, usually, a commercial reason to look at pictures. Magazine and newspaper photo contests picked pictures to please their readers, even National Geographic, especially when it buys pictures that their photographers did not take. (mostly Nature).......Regards!

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

What does the high percentage of women curators have to do with this topic? (It could be seen that you are implying that the problem with curators is that they are largely women.)
Or the fact that most curators are not photographers? Curation is about selection and organization of something (in the case of this thread, photographic images). Must one be a photographer to do that effectively? My friend has selected and organized (curated) a lovely, stylish, somewhat unique closet of clothes and has an above-average knowledge of fashion history, yet does not sew....

Feminists constantly whine that there aren't enough women in congress, in corporate leadership, in certain career fields like engineering. They insist that women must be represented in these areas in proportion to their numbers in society as a whole, where women are slightly more than 50% of the population.

If women can complain that women are under-represented in some fields, then men have as much right to complain that men are under-represented in some fields.

 

[Valerie]

Feminists constantly whine that there aren't enough women in congress, in corporate leadership, in certain career fields like engineering. They insist that women must be represented in these areas in proportion to their numbers in society as a whole, where women are slightly more than 50% of the population.

If women can complain that women are under-represented in some fields, then men have as much right to complain that men are under-represented in some fields.

Whining feminists?? Seriously? To complain about a legitimate, pervasive problem is hardly whining. And while the Brooklyn Museum may have a majority of women, it is hardly the norm.
According to a 2014 study “The Gender Gap in Art Museum Directorships,” conducted by the Association of Art Museum Directors (AAMD), female art-museum directors earn substantially less than their male counterparts, and upper-level positions are most often occupied by men. The good news is that, while in 2005 women ran 32 percent of the museums in the United States, they now run 42.6 percent—albeit mainly the ones with the smallest budgets. (http://www.artnews.com/2015/05/26/taking-the-measure-of-sexism-facts-figures-and-fixes/).

I have no doubt in my mind at all, that if there actually were more women curators we would be seeing an entirely different kind of art being exhibited.

 

[slackercrurster]

Watch Saving Banksy DVD, get it from your library. Details how curators / museums operate and the frustrating problems with people outside the museum system working with art museums.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4036488/

 

[removed account4]

Whining feminists?? Seriously? To complain about a legitimate, pervasive problem is hardly whining. And while the Brooklyn Museum may have a majority of women, it is hardly the norm.
According to a 2014 study “The Gender Gap in Art Museum Directorships,” conducted by the Association of Art Museum Directors (AAMD), female art-museum directors earn substantially less than their male counterparts, and upper-level positions are most often occupied by men. The good news is that, while in 2005 women ran 32 percent of the museums in the United States, they now run 42.6 percent—albeit mainly the ones with the smallest budgets. (http://www.artnews.com/2015/05/26/taking-the-measure-of-sexism-facts-figures-and-fixes/).

I have no doubt in my mind at all, that if there actually were more women curators we would be seeing an entirely different kind of art being exhibited.

couldn't agree more valerie !

 

[moose10101]

Feminists constantly whine that there aren't enough women in congress, in corporate leadership, in certain career fields like engineering. They insist that women must be represented in these areas in proportion to their numbers in society as a whole, where women are slightly more than 50% of the population.

If women can complain that women are under-represented in some fields, then men have as much right to complain that men are under-represented in some fields.

Feminists are trying to address lack of opportunity and unequal pay for the same work; I'm not hearing demands for 50%+ representation. Got links to where women are "insisting" on that?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I think the use of the term "documentary" is a little over-generalized here. To shoot in a documentary style is possible with -any- camera system, I do it with a Hasselblad on a tripod, I do it with a 4x5, and I do it with all my 35mm cameras. I would also hardly say that what is being shown at the higher echelon galleries is "documentary" at all. I see a lot of color. Color and appropriation. Take for example Gursky, or the bullshit wanker known as Richard Prince. Gursky is big color, Prince is big bullshit. I'm far more concerned about the people who -do- take all the considerations and time in the world to iron out an idea that was poorly conceived in the first place. Let the bad ideas bleed quickly, so that the photographers/artists producing them can evolve their talent to a higher level.

Digital flourished because it was convenient and accessible. Custom black and white photography became a reality for the every day snapshot shooter with digital, as well.

Also, any list of suggestions with a title as smarmy as that (and believe me, I've seen them), should immediately be ignored and filed under "useless".

I've never gained insight about the art world from anything like that, but from looking at actual artist books, as well as applying unrelated literary material into my beliefs and philosophies. I think reading Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead and picking up a camera as a result of not being able to draw fast enough, made me a better photographer than any of Saint Ansel's technical books ever would have...

you apparentlyhave it.

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

Feminists are trying to address lack of opportunity and unequal pay for the same work; I'm not hearing demands for 50%+ representation. Got links to where women are "insisting" on that?

Articles from the Washington Post, a generally liberal newspaper, and The Hill, a left-leaning political news site:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...-office/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c50c14abefb7

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-thanks-to-tina-smith/?utm_term=.a398e5c223af

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaig...hollywood-has-a-female-representation-problem


From Feminist advocacy groups:

https://www.representwomen.org/current-women-representation#us_overview

https://www.fairvote.org/women_s_representation

 

[removed account4]

society should insist on 50% representation OR MORE, seeing women represent more than 50% of society.
as a country that was founded on representation it sadly shows representation.

the more women the better.

 

[Vaughn]

Articles from the Washington Post, a generally liberal newspaper, and The Hill, a left-leaning political news site:

...
None of those sources contain any demands for 50% representation. Some did want movement towards pariety and see it as the end goal. The articles point out the obvious under-representation of women in gov't and many fields, and some give examples of social and governmental barriers that limit female participation.

Statistics do not 'whine'. But sometimes male privledge makes funny noises.

 

[jim10219]

hi valierie !
if you ask me, the more women in positions of power and stature the better.

i know what you mean jim, there is always something to complain about and what i think is kind of funny
is sometimes i've seen the people who complain the loudest end up doing whatever it was they complained about the others not doing well
and they do it 10x worse gotta always keep them guessing is what i think. and i don't think there should be any categories
in these judged competitions cause as you saw, one person's landscape is another person's something else ..

YMMV

You gotta keep the categories. They increase your chances of winning!

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

...
None of those sources contain any demands for 50% representation. Some did want movement towards pariety and see it as the end goal. The articles point out the obvious under-representation of women in gov't and many fields, and some give examples of social and governmental barriers that limit female participation.

Statistics do not 'whine'. But sometimes male privledge makes funny noises.

Parity means that women are represented in proportion to their proportion in the population. You're either stupid or dishonest if you don't understand that. Then again, you had to throw the big lie of 'male priviledge.'

Let me tell you about Male Priviledge: I raised my son by myself, and never received so much as a cent in child support from his mother, because the local prosecutor at the time, a woman, simply refused to enforce child support orders against women. If I had been ordered to pay child support and didn't pay, I'd have been in prison.

I have had serious health problems all of my life, including epilepsy, and a stroke when I was 37 that cost me my teaching job. I don't have insurance because I cannot afford it; and as a man, I'm not allowed to get health care from the state where I live. Its for single moms only, you see.

You can have our "Male Priviledge," it hasn't done a goddamned thing for me or my son (that's because it isn't real).

 

[Vaughn]

You have been through a lot, as many of us have. Nothing in your experience as you related it just now negates the concept of male priviledge. It reinforces it. I happen to live in a more progressive state and received alimony and child support when the mother of our triplets divorced me. Health care is considered a right of everyone. You seemed to live in a state/county where male priviledge and the patriarchic society has a heavy hand. With that comes many advantages for males-- but also costs, which you seem to paying with interest.

 

[blockend]

Male privilege is a reasonable claim so long as all other forms of privilege are taken into account. Like how well connected a family are, how physically attractive an individual is, if the person has sufficient funds for extended education, and so on.

 

[removed account4]

You gotta keep the categories. They increase your chances of winning!

LOL
well i just realized something ..
at least you know what wins so
now there is no excuse
you gotta go companies
that publish church bulletins
and get familiar with icons and
ecclesiastic lighting &c
AND when you are printing the images
you need to have inspirational music
from KLOVE on in the background.
KLOVE bigfootted 2 local college stations where
i live so i am always inspired