Arches Aquarelle?

[MurrayMinchin]

Bump...12 years since this thread started.

I'm going to order some cold pressed Arches Aquarelle for salt prints, and was wondering if anyone wanted to add their experience/wisdom about this paper.

Can you coat on both sides?

 

[nmp]

Bump...12 years since this thread started.

I'm going to order some cold pressed Arches Aquarelle for salt prints, and was wondering if anyone wanted to add their experience/wisdom about this paper.

I have used the Bright White variety (although I reported it then as cold press, in retrospect it might have been the hot press sent to me by mistake from Blick and I was not smart enough then to figure out the difference) - and I printed it without using the salt, just straight silver nitrate -

Salt-Free Salt Print Toned with Himalayan Black Salt

MODERATOR's NOTE: This thread evolved as it grew, and it became clear that it would be useful if some of its content were to be moved into a new thread. That work was done and the resulting thread is here...

www.photrio.com

Didn't do the regular salt though. I suspect it would have more staining than the likes of COT, HPR etc on account of alkaline buffer. Also, my guess sensitized paper won't keep as long in comparison.

Try and report back....

:Niranjan.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I have used the Bright White variety (although I reported it then as cold press, in retrospect it might have been the hot press sent to me by mistake from Blick and I was not smart enough then to figure out the difference) - and I printed it without using the salt, just straight silver nitrate -

Salt-Free Salt Print Toned with Himalayan Black Salt

MODERATOR's NOTE: This thread evolved as it grew, and it became clear that it would be useful if some of its content were to be moved into a new thread. That work was done and the resulting thread is here...

www.photrio.com

Didn't do the regular salt though. I suspect it would have more staining than the likes of COT, HPR etc on account of alkaline buffer. Also, my guess sensitized paper won't keep as long in comparison.

Try and report back....

:Niranjan.

Thanks, I'll give that a read.

Ellie Young in her book, The Salt Print Manual, says: "Arches Aquarelle...100% cotton unbuffered, internally and surface sized with gelatin. Gives a reasonable tonal range with warm pleasant tones".

It's easier to find in Canada than the other options, so I'm going to give it a whirl.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Went to the main Arches website, and they do add calcium carbonate. Will definitely share whatever happens.

 

[nmp]

Went to the main Arches website, and they do add calcium carbonate. Will definitely share whatever happens.

Citric acid will become all the more important in the sensitizer. You can also try and pre-acidify the paper the way the New Cyano folks do. Kind of pricey paper though, even more than the other non-buffered papers.

:Niranjan.

 

[nmp]

Went to the main Arches website, and they do add calcium carbonate. Will definitely share whatever happens.

Speaking of the surfaces, I just checked my stash of both cold press and hot press papers (I bought pads.) The cold press is really out there in terms of roughness (more so than I have seen in other cold press papers)- top side more so than the other side. Hot press is really nice and smooth, the top side more than the other side. I don't know if you are looking for a rough surface particularly but might want to consider the differences.

:Niranjan.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Speaking of the surfaces, I just checked my stash of both cold press and hot press papers (I bought pads.) The cold press is really out there in terms of roughness (more so than I have seen in other cold press papers)- top side more so than the other side. Hot press is really nice and smooth, the top side more than the other side. I don't know if you are looking for a rough surface particularly but might want to consider the differences.

:Niranjan.

Yes, I am seeking paper texture...but not too much, and where that line is I won't know until it's been crossed.

I took silver gelatin enlargements as far as I could, but they felt like I was looking through a window to something removed, or away from me. What I'm trying to achieve is the experience of holding an art object in my hands. All very unexplainable stuff!

Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[KYsailor]

interesting thread - I recently was "gifted" 20-30 sheets of 22X30 sheets of Arches Aquarelle 140lbs CP ( by a retired watercolorist) , and tried it on Van Dyke Brown with fairly good results ( I am trying VDB for the first time) Attached is aVDB image ... came out fairly nice. The neg was made with a cyano curve but printed OK. Personally I don't care for the CP surface, I think I did some cyano also with it and the rough surface make it look a bit grainy in my opinion. I did initially acidify the paper with (citric acid solution) but the second time I used it - I just added 1 drop/ml of 40% to the sensitizer, along with a drop of tween and it came out looking just the same as the acidified paper and a lot easier to deal with. Overall it seems to work pretty well with VDB. I will have to try some more with cyano, since I have a lot of it.

Regarding cyano, I have used some canson Montval water color paper and that worked great for cyano - however I have the same issue with the rough surface- looks kind of grainy ( see attachment) I have also used Canson Bristol XL recycled for cyano and had good results - a pretty inexpensive paper - Oh BTW I am having issues with my home brew contact frame with make some areas not as sharp... need to fix that. I am glad that people like the Arches Aquarelle, I will have two work with it more.

Dave

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Arches Aquarelle is a buffered watercolour paper...have people been treating it to a pre-acidifying bath to neutralize the calcium carbonate?

I found this by Christina Z Anderson:

"For an unsuitably alkaline paper, the ~1% oxalic acid soak does wonders. Take a mere rounded tablespoon of oxalic acid and stir it into a liter of water. Soak paper in this for a couple minutes and hang to dry without rinsing. It’s a quick dip and dunk procedure..."

Papers for Palladium Printing

Today we share the research of Christina Z. Anderson on papers for palladium printing.

rfotofolio.org

Have seen references to citric acid being used as well and that's what I have on hand...any tips on dilution & time?

Paper should be here in a couple days

 

[MurrayMinchin]

...I did initially acidify the paper with (citric acid solution) but the second time I used it - I just added 1 drop/ml of 40% to the sensitizer, along with a drop of tween and it came out looking just the same as the acidified paper and a lot easier to deal with....

Can you remember what size print it was?

 

[revdoc]

I acidify paper for VDB. I use acetic acid; it converts the calcium carbonate buffer into highly soluble calcium acetate, which washes out. Citric acid leaves calcium citrate, most of which stays in the paper, and has caused issues for me. Oxalic acid is similar to citric acid. That said, a lot of people seem to have no problems with using them both.

I just use 4% distilled white vinegar, diluted 1+1 with tap water. Five minutes in that, followed by five minutes wash. Any residual acetic acid evaporates on drying.

Citric acid should be about 2% as well. It exhausts through use. If you don't see bubbles coming off the paper, you need to make up a fresh solution.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I acidify paper for VDB. I use acetic acid; it converts the calcium carbonate buffer into highly soluble calcium acetate, which washes out. Citric acid leaves calcium citrate, most of which stays in the paper, and has caused issues for me. Oxalic acid is similar to citric acid. That said, a lot of people seem to have no problems with using them both.

I just use 4% distilled white vinegar, diluted 1+1 with tap water. Five minutes in that, followed by five minutes wash. Any residual acetic acid evaporates on drying.

Citric acid should be about 2% as well. It exhausts through use. If you don't see bubbles coming off the paper, you need to make up a fresh solution.

Awesome...thanks a bunch!

Will be giving vinegar a try for sure

 

[KYsailor]

Can you remember what size print it was?

I was doing 6x8 inch paper- 5x7 negative. Using 2 ml+ 2 drops citric + 1 drop tween

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I was doing 6x8 inch paper- 5x7 negative. Using 2 ml+ 2 drops citric + 1 drop tween

Thanks a bunch again...that gives me an idea of where to start with the amount per image area ratio.

 

[FotoD]

Citric acid leaves calcium citrate, most of which stays in the paper

What makes you say that most of it stays in the paper?

Oxalic acid is similar to citric acid.

Calcium citrate is 12000x more soluble than calcium oxalate (by weight). In what way do you think they are similar?

In contrast calcium acetate is only 4x more soluble than calcium citrate.

Have seen references to citric acid being used as well and that's what I have on hand...any tips on dilution & time?

IME citric acid is very useful for acidifying papers and chelating (aiding the removal of) iron in siderotypes. It's very convenient in that you don't have to store large volumes of liquid or corrosive concentrates.

To acidify papers try 6% citric acid for at least 15min. Make sure the papers don't stick to eachother. Hang to dry back to back without rinsing.

If you want to pre-shrink the papers at the same time you can use hot tap water to mix the acid. (But with Arches Aquarelle the sizing will start washing away above 30C)

 

[FotoD]

Bill Schwab has a nice video on the process:

 

[MurrayMinchin]

IME citric acid is very useful for acidifying papers and chelating (aiding the removal of) iron in siderotypes. It's very convenient in that you don't have to store large volumes of liquid or corrosive concentrates.

To acidify papers try 6% citric acid for at least 15min. Make sure the papers don't stick to eachother. Hang to dry back to back without rinsing.

If you want to pre-shrink the papers at the same time you can use hot tap water to mix the acid. (But with Arches Aquarelle the sizing will start washing away above 30C)

Thanks...will add that to my list of options to try out.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Bill Schwab has a nice video on the process:

I hadn't seen that video yet...thanks

 

[MurrayMinchin]

9x12 block of Arches Aquarelle Cold Pressed just arrived at our door.

Ooo-la-laaaaa...

So creeeeamy...

So texxxxtural...

Just guessing, but from my first finger tip & eye ball caressing experience I'll probably be using the 'back side' which has a wee bit less texture than the 'front side' of the paper. Intrigued by the colour, as it has more 'creamy warmth' than Hanemuhle Platinum Rag.

Bath time! (Will be trying FotoD & Bill's suggestion in the video for a 6% citric acid bath first).

 

[fgorga]

Citric acid is probably as good as anything for neutralizing the carbonate buffer in paper.

The 15 minute soak recommended by FotoD above is probably overkill, but not harmful.

Just watch the paper carefully and when the bubbling has stopped you can remove the paper. In my experience most papers need only two or three minutes in acid.

Also, if the paper does not fizz when you first put it in the acid, you have exceeded the capacity of your solution to neutralize the buffer and you'll need to make more solution.

The bubbles formed when carbonate buffered paper is placed in an acidic solution are carbon dioxide a product of the neutralization reaction. Hence if you don't see bubbles you are not getting neutralization.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Citric acid is probably as good as anything for neutralizing the carbonate buffer in paper.

The 15 minute soak recommended by FotoD above is probably overkill, but not harmful.

Just watch the paper carefully and when the bubbling has stopped you can remove the paper. In my experience most papers need only two or three minutes in acid.

Also, if the paper does not fizz when you first put it in the acid, you have exceeded the capacity of your solution to neutralize the buffer and you'll need to make more solution.

The bubbles formed when carbonate buffered paper is placed in an acidic solution are carbon dioxide a product of the neutralization reaction. Hence if you don't see bubbles you are not getting neutralization.

Interesting that you shared the bit about the paper not fizzing, as that's what happened. There were a few bubbles, but that was probably just air finding a path through the sizing.

The citric acid I'm using is food grade, and I mixed it with tap water. I only did a couple a sheets, just in case something went wrong.

I'll try coating one tomorrow to see what happens.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Weird...

6% citric acid...no fizz.

5% vinegar 1:2 with water...no fizz.

5% vinegar 1:1 with water...no fizz.

5% vinegar full strength...no fizz.

Just tried a step tablet with one coat each of salt & silver on the 'back side' of a piece of cold pressed Arches Aquarelle with no pre-treatment. Took a bit more solution than Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag. Image smooth with no mottling, but looks like a double coat of silver will be needed. Very warm colour and barely budged with the gold/borax toning dilution I was using on HPR. After final wash very nice chocolatey brown. No idea what's going to happen when it dries.

Using the 9x12 300gsm water colour pad paper...maybe it's different?

Not what I was expecting, but great fun

Going to have lunch, then back at it.

 

[fgorga]

Weird...

6% citric acid...no fizz.

5% vinegar 1:2 with water...no fizz.

5% vinegar 1:1 with water...no fizz.

5% vinegar full strength...no fizz.

Just tried a step tablet with one coat each of salt & silver on the 'back side' of a piece of cold pressed Arches Aquarelle with no pre-treatment. Took a bit more solution than Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag. Image smooth with no mottling, but looks like a double coat of silver will be needed. Very warm colour and barely budged with the gold/borax toning dilution I was using on HPR. After final wash very nice chocolatey brown. No idea what's going to happen when it dries.

Using the 9x12 300gsm water colour pad paper...maybe it's different?

Not what I was expecting, but great fun

Going to have lunch, then back at it.

Your 'no fizz' result strongly suggests that Arches Aquarelle does not contain a carbonate buffer. Have you tried an exposure on the paper as you received it?

Also, why are you coating the back side? Some papers have two very different surfaces. I suggest that you try coating the front side as well just to see what happens.

 

[nmp]

Conservation

Fungicidal treatment to prevent the appearance of mould. With alkaline reserve, acid-free, no optical brightening agents (permanent in accordance with ISO 9706)

ARCHES® Aquarelle - Arches Papers

Inimitable thanks to its exclusive production process: gelatin sized "to the core", ARCHES Aquarelle is the watercolor paper most prized by artists.

arches-papers.com

ISO 9706
The norm ISO 9706 describes the criteria for paper permanent as follows : - high quality pulp, with a low level of remaining lignin. - minimum requested for the tear resistance. - tolerances (mini / maxi) for the cold extracted pH value. - minimum of 2% chalk equivalent as a buffer.

 

[fgorga]

Conservation

Fungicidal treatment to prevent the appearance of mould. With alkaline reserve, acid-free, no optical brightening agents (permanent in accordance with ISO 9706)

ARCHES® Aquarelle - Arches Papers

Inimitable thanks to its exclusive production process: gelatin sized "to the core", ARCHES Aquarelle is the watercolor paper most prized by artists.

arches-papers.com

ISO 9706
The norm ISO 9706 describes the criteria for paper permanent as follows : - high quality pulp, with a low level of remaining lignin. - minimum requested for the tear resistance. - tolerances (mini / maxi) for the cold extracted pH value. - minimum of 2% chalk equivalent as a buffer.

"alkaline reserve" might not be composed of a carbonate that generates carbon dioxide when treated with acid.