APUG.ORG to PHOTRIO.COM Migration, Final Details.

[Wayne]

Hi Wayne, I did link to several posts discussing why we had to make this move and I understand it's hard to see the brand change for some. How would you feel pointing people to APUG and the site no longer exists? Or it's a site with 25 guys arguing about dilutions, while the analog crowd moved on to sites/social media that also support hybrid and digital? This was the reality. I wasn't prepared to let something we've built on for 15yrs evaporate or go out of business. We did what we had to do. So far, the new stats are exceeding my expectations and I am becoming hopeful we can keep this ship afloat. And we have not even been indexed by google or promoted the new site in any way. Today we are currently averaging a user registration 4x that of APUG, I haven't seen numbers like that in 10yrs. I keep getting private messages and emails from people saying they have come back now that they can talk film AND hybrid or digital. That's a good thing imo.

This skirts all of my points though. I get all of that. Why was the APUG (brand) name and concept kicked to the curb? That could have been retained while everything else about the new site moved forward.

 

[Sean]

This skirts all of my points though. I get all of that. Why was the APUG (brand) name and concept kicked to the curb? That could have been retained while everything else about the new site moved forward.

I addressed that in the other thread you posted in if you want to check there. Thanks

 

[tim_walls]

@Theo Sulphate @winger @Sirius Glass Just added a "Shop" link to the menu. That should be going in a few days and will have branded clothing, accessories of all kinds, stickers, etc. Can I ask what you guys think a reasonable price for a t-shirt is? The margins are pretty low so to make the Shop actually contribute to revenue a shirt might need to be around $20-24. Or maybe I sell them at cost and consider it free advertising?

I'd pay 25 bucks for one, for what it's worth! Are there places that let you sell shirts 'print on demand' these days, to save you needing to deal with stock or shipping?

(Ideally one which was worldwide & could print and dispatch from somewhere on the same continent at least as the purchaser, to keep shipping costs reasonable.) I'm gonna assume such businesses must exist and I'm feeling dumb for not knowing who they are...

 

[Molli]

....

If all members want, is to see analog uncheck the boxes at the top that say "hybrid" & "digital" - APUG is still there, it has just been rebranded to make it more welcoming to those people who aren't quite so enlightened to where photography came from, and that it's more than a selfie with an iPhone. If the name change is the *only* thing that is bugging members - might I suggest you all take a step back from the computer screen and have a look at what's happening in the world right now, to regain some perspective.

In the grand scheme of things, renaming a website, a brand, or a 5* hotel group is so low on the "world problems scale", they don't even rate a mention.

YES.

 

[Sean]

I'd pay 25 bucks for one, for what it's worth! Are there places that let you sell shirts 'print on demand' these days, to save you needing to deal with stock or shipping?

(Ideally one which was worldwide & could print and dispatch from somewhere on the same continent at least as the purchaser, to keep shipping costs reasonable.) I'm gonna assume such businesses must exist and I'm feeling dumb for not knowing who they are...

Been setting one up already, got a bit tedious so put it off a few days until more bugs are squashed..

 

[Sirius Glass]

@Theo Sulphate @winger @Sirius Glass Just added a "Shop" link to the menu. That should be going in a few days and will have branded clothing, accessories of all kinds, stickers, etc. Can I ask what you guys think a reasonable price for a t-shirt is? The margins are pretty low so to make the Shop actually contribute to revenue a shirt might need to be around $20-24. Or maybe I sell them at cost and consider it free advertising?

$20US to $25US and clearly state that it helps support Photrio.

 

[Wayne]

Hi Wayne, I did link to several posts discussing why we had to make this move and I understand it's hard to see the brand change for some. How would you feel pointing people to APUG and the site no longer exists? Or it's a site with 25 guys arguing about dilutions, while the analog crowd moved on to sites/social media that also support hybrid and digital? This was the reality. I wasn't prepared to let something we've built on for 15yrs evaporate or go out of business. We did what we had to do. So far, the new stats are exceeding my expectations and I am becoming hopeful we can keep this ship afloat. And we have not even been indexed by google or promoted the new site in any way. Today we are currently averaging a user registration 4x that of APUG, I haven't seen numbers like that in 10yrs. I keep getting private messages and emails from people saying they have come back now that they can talk film AND hybrid or digital. That's a good thing imo.

I don't see how retaining the APUG identity for the analog-only section could possibly detract from or interfere with the overall success of the new site. I think you are wrong about that. It feels like a betrayal and abaondonment of the (hard)core group and core values that started it all, especially because it seems so unnecessary and especially because its NOT the way you described it was going to be. Not at all.

It may be true that APUG wouldn't have survived without the other 2 sections but its also true that this site wouldn't even be here without APUG and it has been dissolved. I hope you will reconsider this and give analog-only users the option to remain the Analog Photography Users Group. It was a great idea 15 years ago, and it still is. Maybe even more so now.

 

[pdeeh]

I think this ship has sailed, Wayne.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

I think this ship has sailed, Wayne.

...and very seaworthy, ready for battle!!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I think this ship has sailed, Wayne.

The ship sailed out of the train station and disappeared down the tracks.

 

[CMoore]

@Theo Sulphate @winger @Sirius Glass Just added a "Shop" link to the menu. That should be going in a few days and will have branded clothing, accessories of all kinds, stickers, etc. Can I ask what you guys think a reasonable price for a t-shirt is? The margins are pretty low so to make the Shop actually contribute to revenue a shirt might need to be around $20-24. Or maybe I sell them at cost and consider it free advertising?

I am NOT a "wealthy" person.....i was a painter. But my experience.?......People are CHEAP...!!
On a $10,000.00 job, they will hire San Francisco's worst Paint Contractor, just because their price was $9,657.00.
400 Stupid dollars...!!
You could have had Rembrandt, but you hired his neighbor because he saved you 400 bux...??
Anyway....... I say F those people. if the shirts need to be $32.50.....just say so.
Good Luck to you and your new efforts here.

 

[ozphoto]

I think this ship has sailed, Wayne.

+1 (Elsa said it best . . . )

 

[AgX]

Or maybe I sell [the printed T-shirts] at cost and consider it free advertising?

I come across about 5 film photographers a year (many other here do even less). So who to advertise on?

 

[ozphoto]

Can I make a suggestion for a floating "TOP" link? I know there's one at the bottom of the page, but it is a little annoying when you have to scroll all the way to the bottom to go to the top. Not a dealbreaker, but a nice touch when you're halfway down a page.

 

[AgX]

Nice idea. Though at least on a computer it just means pressing the cursur for a second at top of the scroll bar. Practically no difference to such special button.
But I would not mind another button.

 

[Truzi]

I just use the Home and End keys on the keyboard. I imagine a floater would help people with phones and tablets.

 

[faberryman]

I don't see how retaining the APUG identity for the analog-only section could possibly detract from or interfere with the overall success of the new site. I think you are wrong about that. It feels like a betrayal and abaondonment of the (hard)core group and core values that started it all, especially because it seems so unnecessary and especially because its NOT the way you described it was going to be. Not at all.

First, The new site is exactly as Sean said it would be, so no deception there. Second, on my screen, it says APUG right there in the upper left corner. Third, If you select the Analog box only, the website will deliver you all the same content in the same format as before. Fourth, no one is forcing you to come here if you don't like it. Fifth, grow up.

 

[Wayne]

Waking up here and going through the thread, as always you are all amazing! In just a day it's looking like enough donations have come in to cover what I see as 60-70% of what the final rollout will likely cost. WOW. Also, the support and positive comments have reduced my stress levels about 95% heh.

@MattKing @winger I was thinking similar. What about a sort of APUG Social group area, that allows for the original crew to keep in touch. We could even have an "APUG" tag option under members avatar in that area (the tag could also link to the APUG social group)? Open to additional suggestions.

Actually it doesn't seem like you are. Just call the analog section APUG, let us keep our identifty/brand as the group that started it all and without which none of us would be here, and be done with it. I doubt that analog-only site users will object, and none of the hybrid or Digital only people will ever see it. And for crying out loud it isn't going to "confuse" anyone.

 

[AgX]

Second, on my screen, it says APUG right there in the upper left corner.

Obviously that is part of an announcement, and likely all three designations are intended to vanish.

 

[MattKing]

I'm going to support Wayne in this - at least to a certain extent.
I think that the forums - or at least the "analogue" ones - should prominently display something that identifies Photrio as being an evolution from APUG.
I'd suggest something like "Built on the strong analogue foundation of APUG.ORG - but now much more!"

 

[ozphoto]

. . .I'd suggest something like "Built on the strong analogue foundation of APUG.ORG - but now much more!"

I rather like that quote, Matt. Why not just have that replace the yellow logo that will eventually (I guess) be removed? The entire site is based upon APUG, having it only in the analog area rather defeats the purpose of the statement itself and I'm thinking rather difficult as the template probably doesn't allow for it?

In a nutshell, the site has evolved and the name change reflects this; whether the new site includes a nod to APUG or not, the wealth of information available is still enormous and increasing. If people are unwilling to accept the changes for what they are, (IMHO a wonderful opportunity to be inclusive of everyone interested in photography: A, H or D or all darn 3! ) and set on harping on about the removal of a name for days on end, then they have lost sight of matters of real importance in the world today.

Sheesh! In the grand scheme of things, it's a "first world" problem - let's get over it and start making images the analog (or H or D) way to showcase what is happening in the world outside our windows, well away from a computer screen.

 

[CMoore]

To be honest...and i am probably in The Big Minority.....i have Never liked the term "Analog Photography". I am not even sure, In the strictest terms of definition, what that means. I suppose at this point in time, it has become synonymous with film.?
When people ask, i always say Film Photography or Traditional Photography. Why does that matter to me.?.....I am not 100% certain. If i had to guess, i would say that Until the advent of Digital Photography, there was no "Analog Photography".....nobody would have understood what you were saying or why you were saying it.....it was simply, Photography.
I suppose (with me) it might be an Age/Snob/Pride thing.?
MY hobby is Photography.
Those guys over there, with the expensive, 15 month old cameras.?......THEY are Digital Photographers.
I would Never Argue this with anybody...i only mention it here. No doubt, at this point, most all Professional and hobby photographers use a Digital Camera...Just the way it is. They take Awesome photos.
I simply prefer learning the skills of traditional photography.....or is it Analog Photography.?
Its is kind of funny...the same applies to audio.....Nobody Hears a digital recording, and nobody looks at a digital photograph.. It is only after they have been converted to some kind of Analog Conclusion that a person can see or hear a Digital photo or recording.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Can't get any more clearer than that interesting yellow logo at top left. It is what it is. What part are they banging on about??

The 'new look' to APUG (Photrio) is visually very appealing. The site navigates snappily around (but we do have 125mbps broadband, so it is normal for things to tick over in half the blink of an eye). The provision of freedom of choice of analogue, digital and hybrid under the one interactive umbrella is wise, sensible and timely in the present and future environment. There is no 'analogue only' world. We have many choices for photography now. We have been dragged out of an historical anachronism into the modern, forward-thinking era. Good. Very good. Sure, there will be a few loud trumpet blowers on the pithy path; let 'em blow off steam. There isn't much out there at for the loud and disapproving alt-cowhide hipsters to match the comprehensive depth and breadth of experience, both professional and amateur, that APUG/Photrio has accumulated over one roof over many years. Photo.net? Seriously, what a dog's puke they've made of that site.

Lovely font face too that is easy going on the eyes.

Do I use film? Yes I do. And I spend more on film/processing/print-scan than most could imagine.
I like tearing the wrapping off...

 

[AgX]

No, I do not like the term analog very much, but I do not find the alternatives better in practice. I sometime use the term chemical photography.

But APUG has become a landmark. And I think I can speak for the diehard Apuggers, who at least want to see APUG back on the site once one disabled hybrid and digital modes on the site.


Also even then there still be some forums that will be shared in all modes. We shall see how this evolves if pure digital photographers should join DPUG.

 

[Truzi]

No, I do not like the term analog very much, but I do not find the alternatives better in practice. I sometime use the term chemical photography.

But APUG has become a landmark. And I think I can speak for the diehard Apuggers, who at least want to see APUG back on the site once one disabled hybrid and digital modes on the site.


Also even then there still be some forums that will be shared in all modes. We shall see how this evolves if pure digital photographers should join DPUG.

I agree. I call it film photography (or just photography - using film), and have always disliked the "analog" moniker in general terms.

However, APUG was a community - and and identification/membership with an affinity group; I did like that very much.

I'll certainly miss APUG as it's own entity. Being thrust (shanghaied?) into a larger group that is less representative of me does feel a bit marginalizing - but I'm used to that sort of thing. There are plenty of places that I can be only 1/3 of.