Any tips on developing 4x5 E6?

[mshchem]

What kind of IR goggles do you use?

I decant the FD in 50ml bottles, but pre-measured with an volumetric flask and therefore with some air above the concentrate which i replace by intert gas. Occasionally, there are bottles going bad where i do not know the reason. They turn yellow while the others are fine. I think de oldest one was almost a year old.
The reason for the yellow concentrate is the oxygen, i know, but i don't know if the displacement of the air didn't work as it should or if the cap was not tight enough and air crept in. I usually retighten the bottles 1-2 times after they are initially filled.

A further incident happened when i opened a Tetenal Magic Box E6 and the FD concentrate had a slight violet tint. I thought that it went bad altough it was still in date and contacted the manufacturer. They checked back with the batch number and performed sensitometric tests that were fine. So i used the chemistry from this batch and it worked flawlessly. We do not know
what was the reason, but i suspect some contaminant which did not affect the chemistry itself because oxidation turns it yellow and not violet. Their Tetenal customer support was top notch.

Your experience with the zero-air bottle made me think about trying plastic bottles of 50ml where i can squeeze the air out completely. I used glass from the beginning for its near zero oxygen permeability.
What kind bottle did you use?

I used PET bottles. BE CAREFUL there's one component of the color developer that will crack PET. I use Polyseal lids. These are generally referred to as cone seal. Basically a phenolic cap, with a polyethylene conical seal. Nothing beats glass, as long as the chemistry is not very strong alkaline.
PET soda bottles have excellent low gas permeability. Easy to squeeze out the air.

 

[Donald Qualls]

If you're premeasuring your concentrate or stock solution into single-serving size, as it were, as long as it doesn't depend on being water-free for its longevity it would be completely legitimate to either top up with distilled water (which will simply replace some of the top-up water when you dilute) or drop glass marbles into the bottle to bring up the liquid level (ideally to the point there are no bubbles after closing, but you won't get quite there).

 

[destroya]

Whoa! There's another self-replenishing B&W developer that's available in reasonable size package! Is it available individually, or only as part of a kit?

(Sorry to potentially hijack the thread, but I'd been looking for self-replenishing alternatives to Xtol et al and Ilford DD, which latter is only available in 25 L packages).

20 liters from Unique photo is the smallest size available to purchase separately other than buying the full 5 liter kit

https://www.uniquephoto.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/_/fujifilm-prog6-first-developer-replenisher-20l/productID/2C6AC25E-3FDC-45C3-9FBE-9A92A7E5B424

 

[Donald Qualls]

20 liters from Unique photo is the smallest size available

Sigh. Add to that the likelihood that E-6 first dev will be much too "hot" to use as stock solution for B&W with reasonable dev times, and we're back to where we were.

 

[mshchem]

I also use wine bags for my color films. so I have a total of 12 bags. 6 for working solutions that are 3L and then 6 for replenishment that are also 3L. having the tap on the bags makes it really easy when you need only 75ml for replenishing things like reversal bath or fixer. with the bags, as you know, stay pretty much free of most oxygen. you do get some when you pour the chems back in the bags. with moderate ussage, and manula replenishing if they havent been used for a while, I get 2+ years before I feel that I need to dump and remake a working solution. But that only applies to 1st developer and color developer as they go out first. storing the stock solutions topped off with propane has let me keep them for 2 years as well before they (1st and color dev) need to be dumped. the other 4 baths seem to last quite a bit longer. Im on 4+ years and they are still good.

I've got to get some of these wine bags. Your experience with propane mirrors mine. I don't drink ,but I may need to start just for these amazing bags. Do you leave the bag in the box?

 

[mshchem]

Sigh. Add to that the likelihood that E-6 first dev will be much too "hot" to use as stock solution for B&W with reasonable dev times, and we're back to where we were.

I would call Unique and see if they will sell you 1 5L bottle, they do this with Flexicolor chemistry. My 1st developer 20L comes 4 x 5L

 

[Donald Qualls]

The linked first dev is 4 x 10L -- making me wonder if it's ready-to-use (shipping weight around 90 lb) or concentrate (some fraction of that). Concentrate generally keeps better before opening, but ready-to-pour might be preferred for labs...

 

[mshchem]

The linked first dev is 4 x 10L -- making me wonder if it's ready-to-use (shipping weight around 90 lb) or concentrate (some fraction of that). Concentrate generally keeps better before opening, but ready-to-pour might be preferred for labs...

It's a concentrate, I think it's around 2 liter to make 5 liter of replenisher.

 

[mshchem]

What kind of IR goggles do you use?

SpyNet Jakks Pacific. Toy goggles, I cemented an adapter ring on the camera and use an auxiliary fisheye lens for a 1980's era video camera. I need to find a higher end solution, these are the best things for my 64 yo fingers. One set of the LEDS that illuminate the subject are near IR, thus the tape.

 

[destroya]

I've got to get some of these wine bags. Your experience with propane mirrors mine. I don't drink ,but I may need to start just for these amazing bags. Do you leave the bag in the box?

https://www.amazon.com/Wine-Purse-Easy-Fill-Bags/dp/B07PP9YPK7/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=refillable+wine+bladder&qid=1636248196&qsid=136-5462016-2866741&sr=8-2&sres=B07PP9YPK7,B01NCZ94PT,B08R8SWS5Q,B07ZKCMBCG,B0195E7COI,B07G8MTY6Z,B01AU7PPGQ,B07VNFWD77,B06XXN6B1V,B07X5RZL2T,B07XQGPHLR,B094VT7Z1V,B07HRPRZP7,B07FBGPCB5,B00EMDAI44,B072HRF6QR,B08NVJZVXD,B09H2SSPFD,B0721KZWJ2,B097MV2YMG

being refillable is big for me as I mix up 3 liters for replenishment for 5 of the baths, forgoing bleach and when its done, I can reuse the bag. they have lasted me a long time and have been great for color development with replenishment for c41 and e-6

john

 

[destroya]

It's a concentrate, I think it's around 2 liter to make 5 liter of replenisher.

it's 2 liters to make a 10 liter working solution.

 

[Donald Qualls]

it's 2 liters to make a 10 liter working solution.

Okay, so that's about 17-19 lbs shipping weight, and four 2L bottles in the box.

Cost plus shipping seems a little spendy for an experiment ("Well, that didn't work well, now I'm stuck with three bottles of concentrate and 7+ liters of stock."), but it's something to keep in the back of my mind.

 

[Photomultiplier]

I used PET bottles. BE CAREFUL there's one component of the color developer that will crack PET. I use Polyseal lids. These are generally referred to as cone seal. Basically a phenolic cap, with a polyethylene conical seal. Nothing beats glass, as long as the chemistry is not very strong alkaline.
PET soda bottles have excellent low gas permeability. Easy to squeeze out the air.

I have noticed that the polypropylene cap on my CD2 concentrate bottles got a whitish discoloration where they are in contact with the chemistry. So the CD2 looks like it's the nasty stuff.

 

[Photomultiplier]

If you're premeasuring your concentrate or stock solution into single-serving size, as it were, as long as it doesn't depend on being water-free for its longevity it would be completely legitimate to either top up with distilled water (which will simply replace some of the top-up water when you dilute) or drop glass marbles into the bottle to bring up the liquid level (ideally to the point there are no bubbles after closing, but you won't get quite there).

This is something i wanted to try in the beginning but then i didn't. Thank you for mentioning it, i will try it with 1 or 2 bottles from the next batch. If that works, it is a surefire way to eliminate the oxygen in the bottle, as long as the seal is good.

 

[mohmad khatab]

This is something i wanted to try in the beginning but then i didn't. Thank you for mentioning it, i will try it with 1 or 2 bottles from the next batch. If that works, it is a surefire way to eliminate the oxygen in the bottle, as long as the seal is good.

Hello
Do not worry about changing the color of (CD2), it will work correctly in all cases, I advise you only to dissolve it in 100 ml of distilled water before mixing it with the rest of the formula,
If you live in Vienna, you have a darkroom owned by the Analog Photography Amateur Club in Vienna, which includes a number of experts who exchange knowledge, experience and chemistry with their colleagues,,
As far as I know, that dark room is very close to the river in central Vienna.
One of the members of this club and that dark room is the fellow engineer Rodolfo,
If you are interested in meeting fellow analog enthusiasts from your country, you can contact Eng. Rudy, who is a wonderful, respectful, friendly man who always loves to help others and I am the first.
My greetings

 

[trondsi]

All the comments here make me feel like it IS rather complex I was hoping that I didn’t have to buy any more “tech” than a thermometer, but it seems like one of those sous vide heaters might be a must?

Some of you mentioned filling the top of the bottles with inert gas. How do you do that?

 

[Sirius Glass]

All the comments here make me feel like it IS rather complex I was hoping that I didn’t have to buy any more “tech” than a thermometer, but it seems like one of those sous vide heaters might be a must?

Some of you mentioned filling the top of the bottles with inert gas. How do you do that?

Using a Jobo CPP, CPP-2 or CPP-3 and an Expert Drum makes the temperature control and film processing much easier for large format.

 

[JensH]

...
Some of you mentioned filling the top of the bottles with inert gas. How do you do that?

I use Tetenal Protectan, it's butane mostly.

 

[destroya]

All the comments here make me feel like it IS rather complex I was hoping that I didn’t have to buy any more “tech” than a thermometer, but it seems like one of those sous vide heaters might be a must?

Some of you mentioned filling the top of the bottles with inert gas. How do you do that?

more tech, sure but not very expensive. I got my slow cooker day after thanksgiving when they go on clearance, so I got a huge one for $25. no need to spend $800+ on a used jobo. try tank first and you can decide later if you want to spend the $ on more tech. the propane, go to home depot or lowes or wherever and get a small tank, costs like $5 and then you will need a torch which costs around $25 but is a one time purchase. so for the cost of sending 3 rolls to a lab you can get the stuff you need. but there are some other things you will need as well

john

 

[Donald Qualls]

You don't need a photography-specific sous vide, and knowing that will save you up to $100. Just buy a common one for actual cooking from eBay -- mine cost under $40; it sets from 0C to 100C, displays in either C or F, holds temp to 1/2C, has a level switch to shut off the heater if the water gets too low, and has a shutoff timer that will run up to 12 hours. Nearly identical models can be had for a little less, but mine also included free shipping.

I would not consider mine impervious to photo chemicals, but since I use it only to manage the tempering bath, it's exposed to only trace amounts (I won't use it for cooking, ever, because of those trace amounts, but I'm not at all worried about them damaging the unit). I bought a cheap plastic dishpan for the water bath; there's room for four 2L bottles of chemicals and a Paterson tank (careful, will float and tip over if not filled above bath level) and still clearance for the water to circulate.

 

[trondsi]

First trial photo I developed turned out OK, then I tried using the same chemicals the next day and this happened. Look at the discoloration and weird shapes:

Another photo had similar issues, but far less extreme (mostly discolored along the edges).
Any idea what's going on here? Am I not stirring properly?

 

[trondsi]

Here's another trial photo from the same batch (chemical mixes were slightly more than one day old). Mostly acceptable, but the edges are discolored.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Not addressing the color issues, there are light leak issues on the edges.

 

[trondsi]

I just realized something. This is from an old pack of Provia that I had to transfer in a haste because it got soaked in water (freezer ice melted). I guess this could explain part of it at least. The other half of the pack was still sealed though so I’m guessing that part should still be fine

 

[Sirius Glass]

I just realized something. This is from an old pack of Provia that I had to transfer in a haste because it got soaked in water (freezer ice melted). I guess this could explain part of it at least. The other half of the pack was still sealed though so I’m guessing that part should still be fine

That explains a lot. Thank you for your feedback.