Another reason I’m moving to strictly Ilford.

[Agulliver]

I suspect that my queer-cubed (pansexual, non-binary, polyamorous) partner in photography (and many other things) will appreciate Ilford's actions.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I suspect that my queer-cubed (pansexual, non-binary, polyamorous) partner in photography (and many other things) will appreciate Ilford's actions.

he sounds like a good time. What’s his number?

 

[pentaxuser]

Is there just a danger that we are heading for the Soapbox?

pentaxuser

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Is there just a danger that we are heading for the Soapbox?

pentaxuser

I’d say the countdown has begun.

 

[BrianShaw]

I’ll say it now... so long fellas!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Yes - Please send this thread to the Soapbox where it belongs!

 

[BrianShaw]

Hail, hail, the gang’s all here.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Hail, hail, the gang’s all here.

hey, we made it 5 pages and 113 posts. That’s progress.

 

[BrianShaw]

115.

 

[4season]

Who cares about customers sexual orientation? Does it make them more valuable?

Yes it does when the target demographic is known for brand loyalty, higher-than-average spending, and influencing others, and I seem to recall an American Demographics article about just this sort of thing a number of years ago.

 

[AgX]

But is this the case here?
Moreover, it has been stated here that such ad/posting must have been well resasoned by Harman. I am not sure, I rather think the person "doing social media" just followed a current mainstream, either by conviction or for just following. Well, we shall not know. We obviously do not belong to that media in the view of Harman, and though this is "their" forum we hardly will get a reply.

 

[Craig75]

Heaven forbid a photographic company openly promotes equality

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Well, we shall not know.

Why do you need to know in the first place?

If you’re not gay, great! Skip the ad and buy your film.

If you are gay, great! Enjoy the ad and buy your film.

Its really quite simple.

You know what they say about those who are most vocal...they’re usually the gayest of everyone.

 

[removedacct1]

Heaven forbid a photographic company openly promotes equality

That is the bottom line. Ilford has chosen to state publicly that the company believes all people deserve to be treated with respect. Period. It’s easy to interpret this as an opportunistic marketing ploy, but why embrace cynicism??

 

[AgX]

You know what they say about those who are most vocal...they’re usually the gayest of everyone.

Christopher, I have no idea what you are up to.
Well, it was you who started this thread, and I was the first to reply that he does not understand what your post rsp. the ad by Ilford Photo is about.
I have even explained to you in private what that ad made me think of, iit was anything but Gay Pride, a term I have even nevrr heard before.

Since then a have been bashed here, moreover by means of invalid arguments brought up by ignorant members, ignorant of the situation in Germany and even quoting me wrongly.

Me in my defence accusing of being vocal is absurd.

 

[Don_ih]

have been bashed here

Having someone argue against what you say is not bashing.

 

[AgX]

Well, I was presented invalid arguments by members in another part of the world making their perception as standard to reject my perception, criticizing my ignorance
Even you yourself misquoted me in the endeavour.

For me this is bashing.

 

[AgX]

Why do you need to know in the first place?

If you’re not gay, great! Skip the ad and buy your film.

Again I do not understand. The question why a manufacturer makes a statement on a non-product related topic seems valid to me. Likely not for you, but here in continental Europe such statement is not very common.


Moreover I was not even the first to consider the reason behind that statement. Just see here:

So it is good for Ilford to celebrate gay pride for what it means but it is also smart marketing -- the "traditional" market -- folks like me -- are dying off, the future is with the young and they have my deepest apologies for the mess we're leaving them.

I wonder if companies do really care or that it is just peer presure to also make a post like this, being afraid that they loose money and people saying it's a homophobic company.

It’s called appropriation, token gestures and virtue signaling* (*you know the term crypto nazis suddenly learned a few years ago, went bonkers over finally having a nice sounding word to use, without beginning to understand it, thereby making everyone else afraid to use it.).
...

If they really wanted to say or do something, they could for example post bios of gay people working at Ilford, donate money to organizations working for gay rights and ask others to do the same or post gay photographers images etc.
Have they ever done that on this, or any occasion?
Not to my knowledge.

It would still be using and riding the cause, but be less cloying and hollow.

... or more numerous or more profit producing?

Wrong. For a company money comes first. Once you remove all the fairy dust, things are pretty simple.

 

[Don_ih]

If you think it is impossible to understand Germany from elsewhere, how is it you know that elsewhere isn't actually exactly like Germany? Extensive experience?

Stating that an argument is invalid does not invalidate it.

Incidentally, take a moment to search for Gay Pride related events happening in Germany over the next month. There are many.

 

[Vaughn]

Good point, Don.

 

[Animalcito]

I was lucky to live in Germany and Italy and the US for several years and to experience their cultures and their way of seeing things first hand. My hope is that the following lines will help a little bit to deescalate and to promote some understanding of the different cultures and their viewpoints.

Diversity and Inclusion (D&I) is a topic in Germany and in the US, but how it is approached and public expectations are different. The following points are my personal experience and for sure do not cover all aspects:

- Rainbow flag: AgX is right, in Germany this flag is/was broadly used by the ‘peace movement’. It seems that the younger generation associates it more with the LGBT

- The ‘day of ...’ or ‘month of ...’ presence we have in the US does not exist in that dominance in Germany. This leads to the fact you will not hear or read much about it. The only recent exception is maybe Halloween. Not a German tradition but highly pushed by industry to generate more revenue.

- While in the US we expect companies to be somehow active and involved in our communities, this is not the expectation in Germany. I think this is based on the different social systems. While in the US you need involvement as there is less state, Germany has it ‘social capitalism’ approach with much more state involvement. It seems also that Germans expect the state to be more neutral than companies when it comes to social involvement. So advertisement is more on ‘let the product speak for itself’ as social targeted advertisement can much easier been seen as opportunistic.

- Since the 90s Germany made quite some progress in the LGBT field. Today there are gay marriage and gay couples a broadly accepted in society and throughout most of the political spectrum. Compared to some other countries the situation is very relaxed and open. Therefore LGBT is not really on any political agenda anymore. In the US the situation is different not only from state to state, but the topic is politically charged, too. Like with other political topics there is much more visibility and discussion in public.

The felt necessity to wave the flag for LGBT awareness in the two countries my vary due to these social-economic differences.

These are my two cents and I hope that they may help a bit in understanding each others point of view.

 

[Don_ih]

my two cents

Your two cents are appreciated.

 

[grat]

Is it really that much of an offense for Ilford to recognize a segment of society that has been outcast for most of the past thousand years?

Personally, I think society obsesses too much over labels-- we're all supposed to be individuals, but do we really need 8 billion labels to describe people? "cis" in particular is kind of boggling to me-- first, I thought it was Computer Information Sciences, now it apparently translates to "default"-- do straight people really need a label that says they're not different? The only possible use I can see for it is as a pejorative to promote divisiveness.

 

[urnem57]

I fell for clickbait again.

 

[removed account4]

Love Ilford films.

+1

You know what they say about those who are most vocal...they’re usually the gayest of everyone.

Where's Jimmy Swaggert when you need him ... or was it Jim Bakker?
LOL