Another reason I’m moving to strictly Ilford.

[Sirius Glass]

Fixed that for you.

Thank you for that great catch.

 

[tommyfilmist]

i

Companies that think I care about their political views are a total turn off for me no matter they are. I need some more 120 ISO and am buying Foma this batch.


Kent in SD

tis an issue of the times, its also a basic fundamental flaw in business management courses and materials.

they dont CARE about the so called cause, merely that they are APPEARING to be on the bandwagon to ensure good appearance in social media.

 

[pentaxuser]

i




they dont CARE about the so called cause, merely that they are APPEARING to be on the bandwagon to ensure good appearance in social media.

Well I fear there are likely to be some like this who are simply opportunist in the sense that it is good business to be that way. In the mid 60s we in the U.K. had the famous Mods and Rockers riot over a bank holiday weekend in Brighton. The Mods rode scooters and were snappily dressed in parkas and the Rockers rode large motorbikes and wore leather jackets. Each group being opposed to the other

I spoke to an area sales manager for a Petrol company who took great pride in explaining what he did to exploit a sales opportunity. He made the various petrol station managers and staff learn a bit about them and their machines, obtain parkas and leather jackets for the staff and each time groups of Mods and Rockets came for fuel and snacks the staff on seeing them arrive would wear the appropriate gear and act as supporters

I thought it pathetic and somewhat sad and realised I was never that kind of "sales material"

pentaxuser

 

[removedacct1]

i


tis an issue of the times, its also a basic fundamental flaw in business management courses and materials.

they dont CARE about the so called cause, merely that they are APPEARING to be on the bandwagon to ensure good appearance in social media.

Whoahh, how do you know that??! I can guarantee you that - based on the odds alone - there are gay men and women working at Ilford. So there is a significant possibility that the non-hetero staff are recognized and valued at Ilfordfor who they are and the company is paying attention to the social changes, changes that include them and their staff. So please don't suggest that Ilford is just being an opportunistic marketing monster. You don't know that for a fact.
What does appear to be true, however is that YOU don't care about this particular social change: stating the opinion that this is a "so called cause" speaks loud and clear about your values.

 

[radiant]

I really like what Ilford is doing and will continue buying from them. Awesome products and decent customer support. My material is mostly Ilford + Foma papers (and Foma 100 for 5x7" and sometimes 120).

 

[awty]

Where's Red?
It's good it includes Violet, but it's not a rainbow flag with out red.
Ilford need to make a new film to fit the void. 800 iso would be great.

 

[Don_ih]

{Moderator deleted text}

Where's Red?

That's a good point....

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Three reasons why I use Ilford films: Reliable. I like the look. Affordable.

 

[Don_ih]

You guys may as well close this thread if every second post is going to be deleted. It's impossible for people to discuss the topic of this post without bringing in their opinions and world view. Part of the point of publicizing support for Pride Month and all that's associated is calling into question the assumptions and attitudes that characterize society and are never challenged. So, if someone expresses such here, deleting it is not challenging it - it is looking the other way. And if you say this is not the place for such dialogue, then this thread should be deleted.

 

[MattKing]

You guys may as well close this thread if every second post is going to be deleted. It's impossible for people to discuss the topic of this post without bringing in their opinions and world view. Part of the point of publicizing support for Pride Month and all that's associated is calling into question the assumptions and attitudes that characterize society and are never challenged. So, if someone expresses such here, deleting it is not challenging it - it is looking the other way. And if you say this is not the place for such dialogue, then this thread should be deleted.

This is a fair point.
It is often difficult though to deal with some posts that are both expressing opinions and world views, and doing so in a manner that is both disruptive and antagonistic to other people's opinions and world views,
We try not to limit the opinions and views expressed here, but disruptive and antagonistic behavior will get moderators involved.
For clarity, if it wasn't for the fact that this thread is about a film photography company's public facing communications, it would have been closed long ago.

 

[Don_ih]

For clarity, if it wasn't for the fact that this thread is about a film photography company's public facing communications, it would have been closed long ago.

And probably everything that's of value has already been said.

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks, Matt!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Spot on!

 

[awty]

That's a good point....

Actually Pan 80 is red, they should have that instead of SFK 200, then they would have the correct colours for the flag
Then they have the PAN colours if they include the Pan film......Im all for inclusion and diversity.

 

[henryyjjames]

I thought they were finally releasing a colored film.

LMAO

 

[Agulliver]

Looking back at this, I am trying to remember when I was not aware of the rainbow flag and it's connection to LGBT+ pride.....and I suppose I must have been aware for more than 20 years. And I am not part of the LGBT+ community - though these days most of my friends are. By which I mean that sometime in the 90s when I became aware of it, it was not because I personally knew any people who fall in the LGBT+ categories. It was just common knowledge that pubs and businesses displaying the flag were gay pubs, or businesses specifically showing solidarity/friendliness towards what some now refer to as the queer community.....reclaiming a word that was once a slur

As for big businesses getting on a bandwagon....companies are often accused of this. But unless you hear from people who work for said companies, you don't necessarily know if they practise what they preach for one month of the year....or if they're just going after money. I've heard people criticise Tesco, Britain's biggest and the world's fourth biggest retailer for getting on this bandwagon when they have no queer credentials.....but several friends who have worked for them testify that they are possibly the most LGBT+ friendly employer on the planet. Unless you have some knowledge of their practises, you don't know if they get on a bandwagon for one month every year or actually put good practise in every day, every year.

So what matters here is how Ilford/Harman treat their LGBT+ staff and customers and how they've changed down the years. I don't know how many employees they have but you can bet that some are not fully cis-gendered and heterosexual. I also don't know how they feel working at Ilford/Harman...so I don't feel in any qualified to say that they're right or wrong to partake in pride month.

What I can say, as someone who is al ally of the queer community and tangentially involved, the appearance that Ilford/Harman notice and give a crap does make me feel that little better about them. But with the caveat that I don't know if their practises are sketchy behind the scenes.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Looking back at this, I am trying to remember when I was not aware of the rainbow flag and it's connection to LGBT+ pride.....and I suppose I must have been aware for more than 20 years. And I am not part of the LGBT+ community - though these days most of my friends are. By which I mean that sometime in the 90s when I became aware of it, it was not because I personally knew any people who fall in the LGBT+ categories. It was just common knowledge that pubs and businesses displaying the flag were gay pubs, or businesses specifically showing solidarity/friendliness towards what some now refer to as the queer community.....reclaiming a word that was once a slur

As for big businesses getting on a bandwagon....companies are often accused of this. But unless you hear from people who work for said companies, you don't necessarily know if they practise what they preach for one month of the year....or if they're just going after money. I've heard people criticise Tesco, Britain's biggest and the world's fourth biggest retailer for getting on this bandwagon when they have no queer credentials.....but several friends who have worked for them testify that they are possibly the most LGBT+ friendly employer on the planet. Unless you have some knowledge of their practises, you don't know if they get on a bandwagon for one month every year or actually put good practise in every day, every year.

So what matters here is how Ilford/Harman treat their LGBT+ staff and customers and how they've changed down the years. I don't know how many employees they have but you can bet that some are not fully cis-gendered and heterosexual. I also don't know how they feel working at Ilford/Harman...so I don't feel in any qualified to say that they're right or wrong to partake in pride month.

What I can say, as someone who is al ally of the queer community and tangentially involved, the appearance that Ilford/Harman notice and give a crap does make me feel that little better about them. But with the caveat that I don't know if their practises are sketchy behind the scenes.

If one is running a business or corporation correctly, then one does not have time to see with whom each employee is sleeping.

 

[Agulliver]

If one is running a business or corporation correctly, then one does not have time to see with whom each employee is sleeping.

You run a business where your employees feel free and welcome to be themselves....where nobody who is LGBTQ+ feels any need to hide their identity. Where they feel welcome to discuss their partner(s) at with colleagues just like those who are in conventional marriages with 2.4 kids and picket fences. You support those who are from sectors of society who have been marginalised. All of which is not something always visible from the outside. It is only when one embeds in an organisation that it becomes clear if they're serious about equality or paying lip service.

 

[MattKing]

If one is running a business or corporation correctly, then one does not have time to see with whom each employee is sleeping.

If you don't care about the health and wellness of your employees, about how they deal with each other, and about how the people outside your business treat your employees, you shouldn't expect to be running that business for much longer.
You also will of course, provide lots of work for lawyers.

 

[gone]

I'm glad I caught this thread at this end, because I have no idea how things got to this level. My 2 cents on it, and keep in mind that I haven't read all this (but the cat could figure it out) is that I go to political sites for political reasons. And I go to photography sites for photography reasons. It's not a good idea to mix them together.

 

[Agulliver]

I'm glad I caught this thread at this end, because I have no idea how things got to this level. My 2 cents on it, and keep in mind that I haven't read all this (but the cat could figure it out) is that I go to political sites for political reasons. And I go to photography sites for photography reasons. It's not a good idea to mix them together.

While I do appreciate this is a photography forum, "I don't do politics" is rather a privileged position to be in....because it does generally mean one is not affected by any of the issues being discussed....

So since we were originally discussing Ilford's pride rainbow advert *last year*....has anyone asked the fellow from Ilford/Harman who sometimes has a presence here if they have genuine corporate LGBT+ credentials or if it's just marketing for the "pink pound"?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

While I do appreciate this is a photography forum, "I don't do politics" is rather a privileged position to be in....because it does generally mean one is not affected by any of the issues being discussed....

So since we were originally discussing Ilford's pride rainbow advert *last year*....has anyone asked the fellow from Ilford/Harman who sometimes has a presence here if they have genuine corporate LGBT+ credentials or if it's just marketing for the "pink pound"?

If you are referring to Simon Galley, he retired from Ilford and from here, years ago... It's too bad someone from Ilford didn't step in to take his place...

 

[Vaughn]

While I do appreciate this is a photography forum, "I don't do politics" is rather a privileged position to be in....because it does generally mean one is not affected by any of the issues being discussed....
...

One of the better posts in this thread.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You run a business where your employees feel free and welcome to be themselves....where nobody who is LGBTQ+ feels any need to hide their identity. Where they feel welcome to discuss their partner(s) at with colleagues just like those who are in conventional marriages with 2.4 kids and picket fences. You support those who are from sectors of society who have been marginalised. All of which is not something always visible from the outside. It is only when one embeds in an organisation that it becomes clear if they're serious about equality or paying lip service.

We agree.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If you don't care about the health and wellness of your employees, about how they deal with each other, and about how the people outside your business treat your employees, you shouldn't expect to be running that business for much longer.
You also will of course, provide lots of work for lawyers.

There is a difference between caring about health and wellness of employees and how they treat others is different from checking out who is sleeping with whom. The first is good. The second is not your business. How they treat each other is important and that should not cause problems in or out of work. I think we are on the same page.