Another Kodak Vision3 remjet film thread

PaulYW · Dec 3, 2022

Has anyone experienced hardened Remjet on the old film stock from Fujifilm? Normally I can wash it off effortlessly when processing fresh films. but those, two F250, i had to scrub them with sponge.
Somehow the both perforation side on the film had no remjet. Soaking them back into prebath chemical didn't work at all.
It was painful and a nightmare. Of course the film surface became very bad after drying.
It's not that surprising though since the films from Fujifilm are at least 10 years old.

Radost · May 14, 2023

koraks said:
You could try to acquire an IT8 calibration target and profile your scanner. That's pretty much the only thing that'll help.

Don't beat yourself up over it; scanning is tricky, especially when it comes to getting accurate colors off of C41 stock.

Pretty sure IT8 calibration is only for positives not negatives.

koraks · May 15, 2023

I'm afraid you're right!

Radost · May 15, 2023

I was told to not touch the ramjet before finishing the fixing. Then just wash it and rub it off with my finger.

koraks · May 15, 2023

Radost said:
ramjet

That might get hot during operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramjet

I don't notice much disadvantage to touching remjet at some point during the process other than the mess it makes, obviously.

One of the most annoying things when developing 35mm film stock with remjet is that the remjet tends to find its way onto the emulsion side to an extent, where it needs to be mechanically wiped off. Lately I've been experimenting with a removal method where I just put the film on a worktop, apply some low-concentration sodium carbonate solution to it and wipe off the remjet with a wet, soft cloth. Then rinse in a weak acetic acid solution and wash. This seems to yield very clean negatives.

henryyjjames · May 15, 2023

Bronson Dugnutt said:
View attachment 314134

Lovely zinnia! (My sister's name is Zinnia ◡̈ )
It barely looks like film!

Radost · May 31, 2023

FilmPhotographyProject says don’t remove the ramjet before you develop. Just use your thumb after to remove.

lamerko · May 31, 2023

Remember that the color developer has a very high pH (higher even than the prebath). If you don't clean the rem-jet first, the developer will dissolve the bonding agents of the coating and it will be a big mess. I've tested - just don't do it to yourself!

Radost · May 31, 2023

lamerko said:
Remember that the color developer has a very high pH (higher even than the prebath). If you don't clean the rem-jet first, the developer will dissolve the bonding agents of the coating and it will be a big mess. I've tested - just don't do it to yourself!

Just did it.
I can not see if the ramjet was stuck to the emulsion yet. Seams clean for now.
But yes my flexicolor Dev got black.
And the slime on my reels is impossible to fix.

Radost · May 31, 2023

My Dev

Radost · May 31, 2023

lamerko said:
Remember that the color developer has a very high pH (higher even than the prebath). If you don't clean the rem-jet first, the developer will dissolve the bonding agents of the coating and it will be a big mess. I've tested - just don't do it to yourself!

This is their response:

koraks · May 31, 2023

I also don't think the remjet contamination affects developer activity. The main disadvantage is that some of the remjet stuff will make its way into the emulsion, and this will be more so the case if an already contaminated developer is reused. But I find that mechanical cleaning of also the emulsion side is necessary to completely remove all remains of remjet.

A minor note: it's "remjet", not "ramjet". The latter also exists, but is a type of rocket motor!

Radost · May 31, 2023

koraks said:
I also don't think the remjet contamination affects developer activity. The main disadvantage is that some of the remjet stuff will make its way into the emulsion, and this will be more so the case if an already contaminated developer is reused. But I find that mechanical cleaning of also the emulsion side is necessary to completely remove all remains of remjet.

A minor note: it's "remjet", not "ramjet". The latter also exists, but is a type of rocket motor!

So washing the ramjet before development is a better idea?
I tend not to reuse developer with Jobo tank anyways.
The tank and reels get very slimy. What is a good wash solution for it?

brbo · May 31, 2023

Radost said:
The tank and reels get very slimy. What is a good wash solution for it?

I'd think that actual remjet removal solution (or homemade alternatives that get mentioned often) could help with that.

Maybe you could ask FilmPhotographyProject? After all, they were the ones that already gave you one brilliant advice, surely they have more of them?

koraks · May 31, 2023

Radost said:
So washing the ramjet before development is a better idea?

It's a marginal difference since some remjet muck will end up on/in the emulsion anyway. I'd just do as you prefer.

Radost said:
The tank and reels get very slimy. What is a good wash solution for it?

I'd suggest a soak in a plain sodium carbonate solution (concentration is not critical) and then scrub with a brush. That's what I do, anyway.

Radost · May 31, 2023

koraks said:
It's a marginal difference since some remjet muck will end up on/in the emulsion anyway. I'd just do as you prefer.

I'd suggest a soak in a plain sodium carbonate solution (concentration is not critical) and then scrub with a brush. That's what I do, anyway.

Thanks
I have been soaking it in Sodium bicarbonate For a few hours.

koraks · May 31, 2023

Sounds good. In my experience, anything with a pH of 8 or higher will soften remjet. It doesn't matter much what you use. I thought it was crucial to use the 'right' remjet removal bath formula, but nowadays I just use half a teaspoon of cleaning soda in a jar of water and call it good. Works just fine that way.

Cholentpot · May 31, 2023

Radost said:
FilmPhotographyProject says don’t remove the ramjet before you develop. Just use your thumb after to remove.

I've done scores and scores of rolls with Remjet many ways and in all sorts of orders. FFP, sorry guys. I love your stuff but you're wrong here. Removed with baking soda before developer and after blix/fix remove the rest with your fingers. Otherwise you'll have way to much carbon in the developer and other baths and it'll stick to the emulsion side and you'll just get nasty negatives.

I'm switching over the a bleach fix instead of blix for my color. I'll see if that makes a difference.

Sonynolta User · May 31, 2023

I agree with getting that garbage off your film before running the dev.
I use Kodak's lye solution, and after two heavy martini shaker washes, it washes clear.
I also use Jobo tanks, and my reels seem be clean, maybe needing a light brushing just to make sure.
I also acquired a couple Hewes stainless Jobo sized reels, which makes the process much more enjoyable. (?!)

Radost · May 31, 2023

Sonynolta User said:
I agree with getting that garbage off your film before running the dev.
I use Kodak's lye solution, and after two heavy martini shaker washes, it washes clear.
I also use Jobo tanks, and my reels seem be clean, maybe needing a light brushing just to make sure.
I also acquired a couple Hewes stainless Jobo sized reels, which makes the process much more enjoyable. (?!)

What is the Kodak Lye solution?

Sonynolta User · Jun 6, 2023

Radost said:
What is the Kodak Lye solution?

Page 7-27 of Kodak's "Processing Kodak Motion Picture Films Module 7" PDF publication.
Has Sodium hydroxide in it. Just soaking the film in it for 30sec will rinse remjet off in 2-3 shaking agitation washes in a typical film tank. Very little left to wipe off at the end of processing.
Since it doesn't rinse off any remjet itself, you can reuse the prebath solution.

blee1996 · Jun 6, 2023

Sonynolta User said:
Page 7-27 of Kodak's "Processing Kodak Motion Picture Films Module 7" PDF publication.
Has Sodium hydroxide in it. Just soaking the film in it for 30sec will rinse remjet off in 2-3 shaking agitation washes in a typical film tank. Very little left to wipe off at the end of processing.
Since it doesn't rinse off any remjet itself, you can reuse the prebath solution.

Do you know what is the ratio of Sodium hydroxide to water?

lamerko · Jun 6, 2023

Page 7-27 gives the formula PB-2, which includes sodium hydroxide, but not as the main component (1g/liter), but as a pH adjustment due to the presence of a large amount of sodium sulfate (100g/liter). I'm not too sure what problems there might be if you just use sodium hydroxide - 0.1% (1g/liter) if I'm not mistaken it will raise the pH above 13. I wouldn't use that option...

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 6, 2023

I created my remjet prebath based on the kodak formula. I didn't have any sulfate on hand so I substituted extra hydroxide and bisulfate instead.

A:
Borax ... 20.0g

B:
KOH ... 39.5g
NaHSO4 ... 84.5g

Water to ... 1L

Pre-mix and dissolve A & B into their own solutions before combining to a final volume of 1L.

The purpose of the pre-bath is to soften - not remove - the remjet layer. The prebath should pour off containing little to no remjet with the subsequent rinses performing the removal. The high concentration of sulfate seems to help with permeation and stabilization of the remjet layer prior to washing.

lamerko · Jun 8, 2023

Interesting.
In my region, sulfate is sold without restriction and is really very cheap. This is why I use this formula. Kodak also provides a second formula - carbonate. True, it contains some exotic additive, but I believe it can be omitted or simply replaced with Photoflo.

Another Kodak Vision3 remjet film thread

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Another Kodak Vision3 remjet film thread

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