Alternative to Paterson spiral for 120?

[tomfrh]

Im about to try my hand at developing 120 black and white film.

I have a Paterson system 4 tank and spiral.

I am practising with a roll of 120film, and am having serious difficulty getting the film onto the Paterson spiral. The film tends to jump the tracks and derail, especially during initial entry. I can make it work, however I'll load it wrong sooner or later.

Are there any foolproof alternatives?

How do stainless ones
Compare?

 

[MattKing]

The Arista Premium/Samigon/AP reels with the larger tabs work great - much easier than the Paterson version.

These ones: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/55043-Arista-Premium-Plastic-Developing-Reel

They are sold under a number of different names. Be sure to get the version with the larger tabs.

They look like this:

 

[tomfrh]

Thanks! that funnel looks so much better!!

Do these fit in a Paterson tank?

 

[MattKing]

Do these fit in a Paterson tank?

Yes.

Mine came in tanks labelled as "AP".

 

[GRHazelton]

I've found that if I load the beginning of the film, with the remnants of the tape attaching the film to the backing paper still on the film, the tape seems to stiffen the film enough to make the process easier, but not easy! The tabs in the picture should really help.

 

[District Photo]

The Arista Premium/Samigon/AP reels with the larger tabs work great - much easier than the Paterson version.

These ones: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/55043-Arista-Premium-Plastic-Developing-Reel

They are sold under a number of different names. Be sure to get the version with the larger tabs.

They look like this:

I'll second these reels. Loading 120, and 35, has never been easier since I switched to them. I also use them in a patterson tank with no issues.

 

[GRHazelton]

Okay! My ancient Paterson leaks like a sieve, so .... does the Arista Paterson work-a-like come with the improved reels? I can't tell from the website.

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

The stainless steel ones are worth trying, maybe further down the track.

 

[MattKing]

Okay! My ancient Paterson leaks like a sieve, so .... does the Arista Paterson work-a-like come with the improved reels? I can't tell from the website.

The illustration here shows the "premium" reels: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5041-Arista-Premium-Double-Reel-Developing-Tank-with-two-reels

I have that tank and like it in some ways. It seals better than some tanks, but it is slower to empty and fill than the current, Super System 4 tanks, which do seal well for me.

 

[Dr Croubie]

Two things really help with Paterson plastic reels
- Run a graphite pencil around the rings on the inside of the reels, it helps the film slide more smoothly
- cut a 1mm triangle off the front 2 corners of the film (practise a bit in the light until you can do it without cutting yourself).

Besides that, there's the usual advice of practise practise practise in the light, and clean everything properly so there's no ilfotol/photoflo residue on the reels.
Also, there's always an inch or two of unexposed film at the end so don't be afraid to just grab it with your fingers and pull it around the first revolution once it's started.

 

[mgb74]

... The tabs in the picture should really help.

They do.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Never had any problems with SS reels. You cup the film slightly and then walk it on the reels. The only problems I have ever had was with plastic reels. I banished them long ago from my darkroom.

 

[MattKing]

I really like stainless steel reels for 35mm.

I cannot use the central clips on the stainless steel reels for 120 - I can load the film, but cannot reliably prevent it from walking itself out of the reel during the development process.

Otherwise, I would be happy using stainless steel for both.

It may be a little harder to learn to use stainless steel, but once learned ....

 

[chromacomaphoto]

+1 on the pencil thing with Patterson reels but honestly, it just gets easier with time and practice. It was next to impossible for me at the start and now it's really fairly straightforward and easy pretty much every time.

 

[District Photo]

Okay! My ancient Paterson leaks like a sieve, so .... does the Arista Paterson work-a-like come with the improved reels? I can't tell from the website.

I've never had a paterson tank that didn't leak. My solution is just to add a little extra chemistry and wear gloves. Stainless tanks don't leak but I never got the hang of loading the reels. They also take longer to fill/dump than the patterson.

 

[Ashfaque]

Apuger

I have a box of Patterson tanks and reels headed for the trash.

If I may, perhaps you can ask if someone is interested in those - with shipping being paid by that individual ofc.

Tom: If you're worried about leaking, and want something easier to load, then Jobo 1500/2500 systems are worth every penny. They are more expensive though. But in the long run, it's cheaper as they use lot less working solution than others'. Regardless I always use gloves.

As for stainless steel reel, Hewes are the best. They make a variety of SS reels, compatible with Jobo and others and various kinds of SS tanks. They even take customised order. Check their website. I hear Kindermann and Nikkor SS tanks are really good. But I don't remember their working solution capacities.

Bests,
Ashfaque

 

[AgX]

Mine came in tanks labelled as "AP".

AP is the manufacturer, in Spain.

 

[bestbefore1978]

another thing you can try is removing the ball bearings from the spiral. They really help with 35mm but seem to cause problems for me with 120, so I have two reels, one with and one without the ball bearings

 

[tomfrh]

I've ordered one of the arista reels now.

thanks for your help! I'll keep the other suggestions in mind.

 

[dabsond]

I have some of the Arista and older unknown brand. I have noticed the older ones work better for 120 for me. I also notice after about 10 uses the film starts to bind a little bit. I use a toothbrush and dish soap and scrub them. Problem fixed. Not sure if it is the photo-flo or the C41 chemistry.

 

[mwdake]

Im about to try my hand at developing 120 black and white film.

I have a Paterson system 4 tank and spiral.

I am practising with a roll of 120film, and am having serious difficulty getting the film onto the Paterson spiral. The film tends to jump the tracks and derail, especially during initial entry.

If you are having trouble getting the film started in the spiral try this trick...

Cut a piece of the film box to be the same width as 120 film and about 2 or 3 inches long.

Before you go in the darkroom slide this piece of card along the reel tracks into the beginning of the reel but not past the little ball bearings. Now when in the darkroom take your film and slide it along the card until it is past the ball bearings and pull in a bit more then remove the card and load in the normal way. You see the card acts like a guide and makes those springy films easier to get started.

I most often reverse curl the first 1/2 inch or so of my film before loading to help with the springiness.

 

[John Shriver]

I really like stainless steel reels for 35mm.

I cannot use the central clips on the stainless steel reels for 120 - I can load the film, but cannot reliably prevent it from walking itself out of the reel during the development process.

Otherwise, I would be happy using stainless steel for both.

It may be a little harder to learn to use stainless steel, but once learned ....

MattKing: The trick with the clips on stainless steel reels is that once the film is in the clip, you have to slide it side-to-side until it's perfectly centered in the reel. Use your fingers on the side of the center of reel to feel for this. Once it's sticking out the same amount on each side, it will roll on straight. (This gets trickier and more important in the larger sizes like 116 and 122. Yes, Nikor reels were made in those sizes.)

 

[MattKing]

MattKing: The trick with the clips on stainless steel reels is that once the film is in the clip, you have to slide it side-to-side until it's perfectly centered in the reel. Use your fingers on the side of the center of reel to feel for this. Once it's sticking out the same amount on each side, it will roll on straight. (This gets trickier and more important in the larger sizes like 116 and 122. Yes, Nikor reels were made in those sizes.)

Thanks John, but in my case I cannot even get the film into the clip because it takes two agile hands to do so, and the strength and dexterity of my right hand isn't up to the task.

The right hand is okay for holding and positioning the reel, but not the rest.

 

[kreeger]

I'm right handed and I have been loading 120 and 35mm on stainless reels for almost 40 years as I learned working in a photo lab environment where mistakes were not allowed.

I was taught to hold the reel in my left hand and feed the taped end of the 120 film with my right, using my left thumb to depress the spring clip and my right hand to cup the film, and roll the reel counter clockwise with the left hand while using the right to make sure the curving and the feeding are consistent.

I can't remember a time when I had a problem loading 120 or 35 onto SS reels has resulted in a problem. The Hewes 35s are the best. It seems as easy as loading the camera now in the daylight - second nature.

When I'm too old and arthritic to load a reel in my hands it will be a sad day I'm sure.

 

[MattKing]

You misunderstand - my right hand has always had limited strength and dexterity - I'm unable to either hold film with it unaided, or use it to depress the spring clip. I can hold the reel with it though.

That just leaves the left hand to both hold the film and depress the spring clip. If you try that you will find that it cannot be done.

If I had two of my left hands, it would be no problem!

The larger flanges on the Paterson clone reels mean I can use them easily.

I have also used the old Kodak film aprons successfully.

If arthritis kicks up for you, don't despair. With 40+ years of my experience, I may be able to give you some good advice!