Alternative to Paterson spiral for 120?

[kreeger]

Matt, thanks, I may just take you up on that!

 

[Lachlan Young]

I can't say I've ever had a problem loading a Paterson reel other than inadequate drying causing issues. Jobo 2500 reels can be a royal pain too - as can stainless if you don't pay attention.

Make sure you've got enough of the film on to the reel before you start to twist the reel - 3/4 of the way round is a good idea.

 

[gone]

Here's a hint....it's not the reel or the tank :]

I had the same problem when I went from 35mm to 6x6. Make sure the reels are 100% dry, and I mean totally dry. And use just one side of the reel to walk the film onto it, don't twist them both. Before you slip the beginning of the film into the reel, it helps if you bend it backwards against the curl too. It's simple once you figure it out, and you do that the same way you get to Carnegie Hall. Practice, practice, practice. Doing it in a darkroom vs a change bag helps too, and a change bag that is too small and too hot is guaranteed to cause troubles.

 

[tomfrh]

It should be easy though. Having it require practice practice practice is just another way of saying the design sucks.

 

[MattKing]

It should be easy though. Having it require practice practice practice is just another way of saying the design sucks.

Au contraire

The reason that practice is required is that most of us are visual learners and workers, and when you work in the dark, there are no visual clues.

So we need to develop our abilities otherwise.

I liken it to things like riding a bicycle or driving a car with a manual transmission. Once we learn how the feedback systems work, we can internalize them, and the task becomes "easy".

 

[Hatchetman]

Are the reels new or used? they could be clogged up with some kind of residue OR wobbly/rickety from age. I've used Paterson and cheap stainless. Neither is a walk in the park, but it shouldn't be THAT hard. You need to pull the film through the ball bearings. After that it should go smoothly.

 

[bvy]

For 120 with Paterson reels, I hold the reel against my belly with the entry guides out and pointing down, Then I grasp the film with both hands -- finger and thumb on either side -- and pull it up onto the reel and past the ball bearings. After that, it's pretty easy. I leave the backing paper attached, and let it hang. The little bit of extra weight keeps the film from rolling up. When the film is almost completely on the reel, I set it down and pull the paper and tape off then finish loading it.

I'll add that the reels have to be bone dry.

 

[Fr. Mark]

See saw the film through trays of chemicals? Never tried it myself. I use 35mm and put it on a reel or Dev sheet film in trays or with hangers.

 

[District Photo]

Tom: If you're worried about leaking, and want something easier to load, then Jobo 1500/2500 systems are worth every penny. They are more expensive though. But in the long run, it's cheaper as they use lot less working solution than others'. Regardless I always use gloves.

I didn't realize that Jobo had tanks that can be used for daylight, manual film processing. In what way would they use less working solution than a patterson tank? Are the reels smaller? Or does it only use less chemistry when used in conjunction with a Jobo processor?

 

[Dr Croubie]

I didn't realize that Jobo had tanks that can be used for daylight, manual film processing. In what way would they use less working solution than a patterson tank? Are the reels smaller? Or does it only use less chemistry when used in conjunction with a Jobo processor?

Jobo 1500 tanks are very skinny, but you can still get a roll of 136/36 on them. Because of the reduced circumference, they take less chemicals used in manual-inversion mode than Paterson (something like 900ml vs 1000ml for 3x 135 or 2x 120).
Jobo 1500 tanks can be used for inversion with a special lid (without a cog, with a red cap). But seriously, if you think a Paterson tank leaks when you haven't burped the lid on properly, dear god don't try using Jobo 1500 tanks in inversion. They leak from every seam and then some. I only use them when I'm really being stingy on chemicals, or if I'm doing a dozen rolls in a night and my Paterson reels are still wet from the last batch. Every time I use them I swear that it'll be the last time before I sell them.

Jobo 2500 tanks can also be used for inversion, they leak almost as much as the 1500 tanks, and are about the same size (and use the same volume of chemistry) as Paterson. I use them as a last resort for rollfilm, but I put up with them for doing 4x5 sheets with a 2509 (esp for B+W stand-dev and/or when I can't be bothered mounting them on the Jobo). Even with the leaking, I use the 2509 more than my Mod54 in my Paterson, the 2509 holds the sheets so much better (even more so with the occasional 9x12, they fall out of the Mod54 more easily than 4x5s).

Both Jobo tanks (1500/2500) are much much better mounted on the Jobo than for inversion. That's what they're designed to do. Don't bother inverting them unless you really really can't afford a tank that was actually designed to be inverted. I do all of my colour, and the occasional TMax RS fully-rotated on the jobo for rolls and sheets 135 up to 8x10. Rolling a Jobo tank uses a lot less chems, something like 1/3 to 1/6 than inversion (and when rolling, the 2500 use less chems than the 1500). For inversion of B+W rolls it's always Paterson if possible.

 

[Ashfaque]

DP: you'll find a file on various tanks' WS requirements here http://www.jobo-usa.com/resources/manuals

So long the red cap is properly attached, my Jobo 1500 stuffs don't leak during handheld inversion; regardless of how fast I invert it. I can only speak about 1510 and 1520 tank though.

Bests,
Ashfaque

 

[AgX]

I didn't realize that Jobo had tanks that can be used for daylight, manual film processing. In what way would they use less working solution than a patterson tank? Are the reels smaller? Or does it only use less chemistry when used in conjunction with a Jobo processor?

Basically there are two "schools" of tank: the Jobo and the Paterson. Both systems were copied by other manufacturers.

The Paterson system has a true ratchet system with little balls arresting the film during winding on.
Whereas at Jobo one has to improvise such ratchet action by means of ones thumbs. That might look clumsy but actually is foolproof, does not need training and avoids the often reported trouble with the Paterson balls sticking.


Over the years two different types of Jobo reels evolved:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[tomfrh]

I find I can just slide 120 film into the spiral. Is there any reason to use the ratchet system? It seems a bit overcomplex.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I find I can just slide 120 film into the spiral. Is there any reason to use the ratchet system? It seems a bit overcomplex.

It makes it easier to load, for some at least.
I just developed another day a 120 roll that was lying around for 12 years and not a single problem in my old System 4 tank.