Alternate d76 formulas, worth trying?

[baachitraka]

I always found better tonal range with replenished developers better shadow and highlight details, un-replenished developer give harsher results in terms of contrast..

Ian

Some films esp., Foma gives green color liquid after pre-wash. I don't know what dyes they are but I wonder whether they have any effect on working stock solution in replenish scheme.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Dear Team,

I will have to be ordering new chemistry soon, usually from Freestyle Hollywood...

I notice that they have several house brand powders at reduced cost vs Kodak and Clayton 76 which is liquid already..

Has anybody had 1st Hand experience with these alternatives?
Mostly shooting 120 fp4, hp5 and tri-x as well as some sheet film 4x5....
Maybe not having to mix at 121 degrees F?
Any sample shots, any to avoid, or do I stick with the big yellow bag?

Many Thanks for your input and suggestions...
If the formulas are identical I wouldn’t mind Saving 30%, during these strange times....

Be Safe!

Harlequin

I used several variations of D76 and in te end, settled on D76H,which I'm still mixing and using(1+1.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Dear Team,

I will have to be ordering new chemistry soon, usually from Freestyle Hollywood...

I notice that they have several house brand powders at reduced cost vs Kodak and Clayton 76 which is liquid already..

Has anybody had 1st Hand experience with these alternatives?
Mostly shooting 120 fp4, hp5 and tri-x as well as some sheet film 4x5....
Maybe not having to mix at 121 degrees F?
Any sample shots, any to avoid, or do I stick with the big yellow bag?

Many Thanks for your input and suggestions...
If the formulas are identical I wouldn’t mind Saving 30%, during these strange times....

Be Safe!

Harlequin

I used several variations of D76 and in te end, settled on D76H,which I'm still mixing and using(1+1.

 

[Alan9940]

OK, dumb question...

I've never used a replenished developer before...does the replenisher get added before or after development?

 

[Donald Qualls]

OK, dumb question...

I've never used a replenished developer before...does the replenisher get added before or after development?

After. That way, the developer in the storage bottle is ready to use.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I always found better tonal range with replenished developers better shadow and highlight details, un-replenished developer give harsher results in terms of contrast..

Ian

I've had good results with XTOL-R for a while now, although I was skeptical at first, due to my use of a rotary processor. I seem to recall that Gerald Koch who used to post here claimed there wasn't a benefit to replenishment with XTOL, so possibly a case of varied experiences?

Tom

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

OK, dumb question...

I've never used a replenished developer before...does the replenisher get added before or after development?

I always did replenishment after development so that I could bring the working solution to the brim of the bottle leaving no room for air. If you add replenisher before development, there will be some loss in volume after development and consequently when you store it back in the bottle it might not come to the brim.

 

[MattKing]

OK, dumb question...

I've never used a replenished developer before...does the replenisher get added before or after development?

Well the working strength developer is in the tank developing your film, add the replenisher to the bottle you normally store the working solution in.
When you have finished the developing stage, pour the developer back into the storage bottle. There will be some excess, which you will discard.
It is quicker, easier, neater and cleaner to pour from the developing tank to an intervening wide mouth container which you can put aside briefly before later using it to pour the working solution back into the storage container - I use a Paterson 2 litre measuring graduate.
Being able to put the intervening storage container aside briefly gives you a chance to get stop bath into the developing tank.

 

[JWMster]

FWIW, I'm using D-23 though not with Replenishment. D-23 couldn't be simpler to mix. Not sure I want the bother of replenishment. I've always heard folks swear by replenishment, but guess I hadn't seen the difference described as harsher contrast in the unreplenished.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The main point of replenishment has always been economy. You can replenish your developer at a fraction of the cost of diluting for one-shot processing. Also, you get better consistency than reusing a stock solution and adding time for the number of previous rolls. Look at the quantity of replenisher you add per roll processed -- and compare it to the amount of stock solution you'd dilute (for D-76, for instance, working at 1+1, you'd toss 188 ml for a steel tank and one roll of 35mm, where you use much less than half that amount of replenisher for the same amount of film).

The down side is, it's an extra step and an extra chemical to keep on hand (Xtol is the only one I can think of offhand that is its own replenisher, but even with that, you have your working stock solution, and a separate bottle of fresh stock for replenishment).

 

[Ian Grant]

I've had good results with XTOL-R for a while now, although I was skeptical at first, due to my use of a rotary processor. I seem to recall that Gerald Koch who used to post here claimed there wasn't a benefit to replenishment with XTOL, so possibly a case of varied experiences?

Tom

I think a lack of experience with replenishment.

FWIW, I'm using D-23 though not with Replenishment. D-23 couldn't be simpler to mix. Not sure I want the bother of replenishment. I've always heard folks swear by replenishment, but guess I hadn't seen the difference described as harsher contrast in the unreplenished.

When I shared a film processing darkroom with two other photographers we all hated the first films from a new batch of ID-11 (D76) even though we'd season it with some of the old batch.

Even with LF you'd see a difference but it was most noticeable with 35mm.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

The down side is, it's an extra step and an extra chemical to keep on hand (Xtol is the only one I can think of offhand that is its own replenisher, but even with that, you have your working stock solution, and a separate bottle of fresh stock for replenishment).

It's so quick and easy, with 2.5 litres of working developer I'd add replenisher after a few films.

Ian

 

[Alan9940]

Thank you, all, for the tremendous help!

OK, I saw time mentioned somewhere above... Do I need to adjust development time per roll and/or sheet(s) of film processed? If yes, how do I determine how much time to add? I guess I'm thinking that a replenished solution should work the same as fresh?

 

[JWMster]

Ian: Thanks!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Thank you, all, for the tremendous help!

OK, I saw time mentioned somewhere above... Do I need to adjust development time per roll and/or sheet(s) of film processed? If yes, how do I determine how much time to add? I guess I'm thinking that a replenished solution should work the same as fresh?

Most developers intended for replenishment will have different times for stock solution (reused without replenishment, and time added for each previously processed film) or for replenished. This is because the replenished working stock reaches an equilibrium state that isn't quite exactly like fresh stock -- it gains certain things dissolved from the film, and loses others used up the development. Most replenishment systems require "seasoning" with a few films and replenishments before they reach that steady state (though there have been "starter" solutions available to speed that seasoning process).

 

[Ian Grant]

Most developers intended for replenishment will have different times for stock solution (reused without replenishment, and time added for each previously processed film) or for replenished. This is because the replenished working stock reaches an equilibrium state that isn't quite exactly like fresh stock -- it gains certain things dissolved from the film, and loses others used up the development. Most replenishment systems require "seasoning" with a few films and replenishments before they reach that steady state (though there have been "starter" solutions available to speed that seasoning process).

In practice a replenished developer settles down and is seasoned quite qucckly especially if it's a small volume like 2.5 litres, it's not an issue.

Ian

 

[Donald Qualls]

In practice a replenished developer settles down and is seasoned quite qucckly especially if it's a small volume like 2.5 litres, it's not an issue.

Yes. Quite quickly. After "a few rolls". I didn't suggest it would be weeks or months (unless that's how long it takes to process the first few rolls, and if it is, replenishment isn't likely a good choice).

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Do I need to adjust development time per roll and/or sheet(s) of film processed?

Once the working solution is ripened, there's no need to adjust development time as long as you're replenishing it based on usage.

To ripen the freshly prepared developer, you can mix a bit of used working solution (if available) or develop 2-3 rolls (one or two days after mixing the chemistry).

 

[baachitraka]

May I know the sequence of chemicals that goes into M-Q Borax?

I normally give a pinch of Sodium Sulfite before dissolving Metol but how to for Hydroquionon and Borax?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

After. That way, the developer in the storage bottle is ready to use.

+1

 

[Alan9940]

May I know the sequence of chemicals that goes into M-Q Borax?

I normally give a pinch of Sodium Sulfite before dissolving Metol but how to for Hydroquionon and Borax?

Other than a pinch of sulfite before metol, I always mix in the order shown in the formula.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Other than a pinch of sulfite before metol, I always mix in the order shown in the formula.

+1 This has been the recommended method since Saint Ansel was studying piano.

 

[john_s]

I have a job in which I need a lot of developer (lots of copy negatives 4x5 in inversion tank) so for economy I'm planning to use Adox Borax MQ developer. I found Ian's replenisher formula in a post here at Apug, copied below:

There's also a replenisher for Adox Borax MQ.
Adox Borax MQ Replenisher (Fotokemia FR-2 replenisher)

Metol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3g
Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) . . . . . 80g
Hydroquinone . . . . . . . . . . . . 5g
Borax . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18g
Water to . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 litre

Replenish with 15 - 20ml replenisher per 35mm 36ex/120 or 4 sheets of 5x4 film.

 

[john_s]

I noticed on Ian's web site a Kodak formula for D-76 based on the Australian MSDS. Maybe not now, but in times past, the Australian MSDS docs had more detail than those in other countries, presumably because of local regulations. I told this to Bill Troop years ago and he found it very useful. I wonder if the "Australian" D-76 formula is actually closer to the "real" Kodak D-76.

(yes, I know that MSDS is not the formula but still sometimes useful)

 

[Ozxplorer]

I noticed on Ian's web site a Kodak formula for D-76 based on the Australian MSDS. Maybe not now, but in times past, the Australian MSDS docs had more detail than those in other countries, presumably because of local regulations. I told this to Bill Troop years ago and he found it very useful. I wonder if the "Australian" D-76 formula is actually closer to the "real" Kodak D-76. (yes, I know that MSDS is not the formula but still sometimes useful)

John, I have no idea how old this can of D76 might be... it’s been a long while since Kodak left the Australian market!