Adox CMS 20II in pota

[Alan Johnson]

If you just want to dissolve a small quantity of phenidone quickly, dissolve it in a few ml of isopropyl alcohol (70% from the pharmacy will do) and add that IPA solution before making up to the final volume.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

POTA is sure a pita.

My backordered Phenidone arrived this weekend so I mixed up a small batch of POTA and souped my Adox CMS II in it. It worked and I have negatives to print but mixing the phenidone into solution was a major pain in the neck. It certainly does not like to dissolve into solution. I must be doing something wrong because even after 15 minutes of constant stirring I still had undissolved solids from the Phenidone.

I developed at 77F for 11m agitating for the first 45 seconds and then three times per minute following that. From the looks of the negatives I have plenty of contrast so I may end up having to tone down the number of agitations and/or the solution temperature.

To easily dissolve phenidone, add to it a few ml's of isopropyl alcohol. Stir it up in a separate container. This is how I've always mixed phenidone when making pyrocat-hd.

 

[Pioneer]

To easily dissolve phenidone, add to it a few ml's of isopropyl alcohol. Stir it up in a separate container. This is how I've always mixed phenidone when making pyrocat-hd.

Thanks Andrew. I decided to use some propylene glycol this time around and it seems to be working out well. Haven't had much chance to shoot CMS ii in 35mm lately since my 8x10 has been consuming most of my time but I will get back to this soon.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thanks Andrew. I decided to use some propylene glycol this time around and it seems to be working out well. Haven't had much chance to shoot CMS ii in 35mm lately since my 8x10 has been consuming most of my time but I will get back to this soon.

I developed a 4x5 sheet of CMS 20 II yesterday in Caffenol LC. Semi-stand. It came out quite nice. Today I'm going to give POTA a shot.

 

[Pioneer]

I developed a 4x5 sheet of CMS 20 II yesterday in Caffenol LC. Semi-stand. It came out quite nice. Today I'm going to give POTA a shot.

I should pick up a box and give it a try in 4x5. Caffenol is an option I haven't really given any thought but it might be interesting to try. You should post a scan of one of your prints if you get the opportunity.

Of course if I shoot some CMS 20 ii in 4x5 I may actually have to scrounge about and find my one good lens in order to do it justice.

Hmm...more ideas than time.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I should pick up a box and give it a try in 4x5. Caffenol is an option I haven't really given any thought but it might be interesting to try. You should post a scan of one of your prints if you get the opportunity.

Of course if I shoot some CMS 20 ii in 4x5 I may actually have to scrounge about and find my one good lens in order to do it justice.

Hmm...more ideas than time.

I developed a couple of sheets in POTA. Much better results. The film base was very clean, compared to the Caffenol developed sheet. I'll explore POTA further. The POTA sheets got 6 and 9 minutes respectively. Semi-stand. Very slight agitation once every 3 minutes. Fixed for one minute in Ilford Rapid Fix. I soaked the negatives in luke warm water after rinsing for about an hour. The water had a slight pinkish hue. I repeated this and again the water was slightly pink...something to keep in mind when washing.
The downside with these developers is that they have only about an hour shelf life after mixing...The upside, POTA only requires Sodium Sulfite and Phenidone.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I should pick up a box and give it a try in 4x5. Caffenol is an option I haven't really given any thought but it might be interesting to try. You should post a scan of one of your prints if you get the opportunity.

Of course if I shoot some CMS 20 ii in 4x5 I may actually have to scrounge about and find my one good lens in order to do it justice.

Hmm...more ideas than time.

Here is a scan of two negatives. One developed in Caffenol LC (16:00). The other (with fence), in POTA (9:00). Both were semi-stand developed. Both were shot on a sunny day, in the shade. Same lens (Nikkor W150). Both EI 10. It looks like Caffenol LC is indeed a very low contrast developer, compared to POTA...


POTA (My cat jumped in during the 4 second exposure!)

Caffenol LC

 

[Pioneer]

Adox CMS II @ EI-12
POTA @ 23C for 9m
Agitate for 30s then 1 agitation every 3m after
Negative was scanned on a Plustek 7600i with no adjustments (sorry but my enlarger is not up and running.)

Low contrast, may try an agitation every two minutes next time.

I do use Adotech and so far I prefer the results when using that developer, but POTA is certainly showing some promise. POTA is a relatively simple home brew developer and certainly very cost effective.

Please forgive the lack of sharpness, it is the fault of this poor old photographer's eyes, not the film or the developer. Next time I'll load up my test rolls in an auto focus camera.

 

[pentaxuser]

I do use Adotech and so far I prefer the results when using that developer, .

Henning Serger certainly seems to rate the Adotech developer above others. While he rates most Adox stuff highly there may be something in his high rating

With CMS II and 4x5 sheets, I imagine the limit of enlargement for a decent print doesn't exceed 8x10 but I don't know if this is feet or yards?

pentaxuser

 

[Pioneer]

Henning Serger certainly seems to rate the Adotech developer above others. While he rates most Adox stuff highly there may be something in his high rating

With CMS II and 4x5 sheets, I imagine the limit of enlargement for a decent print doesn't exceed 8x10 but I don't know if this is feet or yards?

pentaxuser

Yes. I have read his recommendation and he is right on the money.

I play around with other developing alternatives from time to time because I enjoy doing it. But when push comes to shove and I absolutely need the pictures I use Adotech. Especially if I need to do any serious enlargements. Of course my enlarger has been out of service for over a year now so most of what I have been doing is play.

IMHO Adox has certainly done a great job with this film/developer combo. I am trying to get a little cash together as we speak so I can give the 4x5 a try. Of course if it works out as well as I think then I will have to get my enlarger set up again.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

POTA. 4x5 CMS 20 II. EI 10. Reciprocity correction added. Total exposure time 80 sec at f/22. Agitation 5 sec every minute. Tray. 24C. I've ordered a couple of bottles of Adotech IV to compare.

 

[Pioneer]

View attachment 223908 View attachment 223908
POTA. 4x5 CMS 20 II. EI 10. Reciprocity correction added. Total exposure time 80 sec at f/22. Agitation 5 sec every minute. Tray. 24C. I've ordered a couple of bottles of Adotech IV to compare.

Where's the cat?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Where's the cat?

 

[Henning Serger]

Henning Serger certainly seems to rate the Adotech developer above others. While he rates most Adox stuff highly there may be something in his high rating

Well, to clarify one important point: I generally write here only about products
- I have intensively tested in my test lab
and / or
- I am using regularly in my own photography.
No matter from which manufacturer the products are. So no matter if Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Foma, ADOX or anyone else has made them.

I don't talk about products I've never tested or used. For example you won't find any word from me about Washi film, because I've never used it by myself.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Yes. I have read his recommendation and he is right on the money.

I play around with other developing alternatives from time to time because I enjoy doing it. But when push comes to shove and I absolutely need the pictures I use Adotech. Especially if I need to do any serious enlargements. Of course my enlarger has been out of service for over a year now so most of what I have been doing is play.

IMHO Adox has certainly done a great job with this film/developer combo. I am trying to get a little cash together as we speak so I can give the 4x5 a try. Of course if it works out as well as I think then I will have to get my enlarger set up again.

Hello Dan,
thanks.
ADOX CMS 20 II has a microfilm origin. These kind of films have unique and outstanding capabilities. But they are also a bit like a Formula 1 race car: To get their full power, you have to use the right tools and methods.
A dedicated developer is the most important tool to fully exploit their incredible performance. And the Adotech developer is designed for this film only, to deliver the best performance with it. There is about 30 (!) years of R&D in this special developer. And that is visible and measurable in the results especially in comparison to other developers which are not designed for this film.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Alan Johnson]

Developers based on those designed by michael_r mentioned in post 5 have not been fully investigated, eg
Sodium sulfite 20g, Pyrocatechol 1g, Dimezone-S or Phenidone 1g. water to 1L.(A)
I tested Sodium sulfite - 2 level teaspoons, Pyrocat HD part A 10ml, Dimezone-S 1/8 teaspoon, water to 500ml, (B)
Developed for 15min 20C, Adox CMS 20 II at EI 12 gave slightly contrasty negatives with no apparent non uniformity.
This is not an optimised formula but suggests developers of type (A) may be worth more work.

 

[Jemzyboz]

I am finding this developer very curious and interesting for Adox CMS 20ii. I was planning on trying out the combo myself. Thank you all for testing this so far. I will do my own tests and if that's alright, post them here?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I am finding this developer very curious and interesting for Adox CMS 20ii. I was planning on trying out the combo myself. Thank you all for testing this so far. I will do my own tests and if that's alright, post them here?

Post away!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The best way that I have learnt to dissolve phenidone into solution, is to first mix it separately in a little isopropyl alcohol. It's how I get it in Pyrocat-HD, and POTA. Mixing up some POTA today to develop a couple sheets of CMS 20 II.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Mixing up some POTA today to develop a couple sheets of CMS 20 II.

Do you pre-flash CMS 20ii?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Do you pre-flash CMS 20ii?

No, I haven't... yet. Planning it for a future test. Currently searching for viable alternative to the very pricey (but simply amazing!) Adotech IV...

 

[Rudeofus]

There are several interesting alternatives to POTA in the Film Developing Cookbook.

There was also a thread here with the title "A very low contrast, low pH, full speed POTA variant", but it seems to have dropped of the face of the internet. The developers tested in this thread were all (if my memory serves me right) 2 g Dimezone-S, 20 g Sodium Sulfite, and 1g of some secondary developer like Ascorbic Acid, Pyrogallol and Hydroquinone. They all produced beautiful straight flat characteristic curves.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

There are several interesting alternatives to POTA in the Film Developing Cookbook.

There was also a thread here with the title "A very low contrast, low pH, full speed POTA variant", but it seems to have dropped of the face of the internet. The developers tested in this thread were all (if my memory serves me right) 2 g Dimezone-S, 20 g Sodium Sulfite, and 1g of some secondary developer like Ascorbic Acid, Pyrogallol and Hydroquinone. They all produced beautiful straight flat characteristic curves.

Was this low contrast developer tested specifically on Adox CMS 20 ii? Are there some examples anywhere that I can see?

 

[Rudeofus]

No, it was tested on some other film stock. The person performing these tests has since left the forum, and sadly, the thread has all but disappeared. Even archive.org could not find a trace of it, although some search engines point to a (now disappeared) thread here on photrio.

I can ask the original poster, maybe he still has access to this data.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

How readily does Dimezone-S dissolve in water?