Adox CHS 100 & CMS 20 in 120 availability projections

[Anon Ymous]

Whose process reportedly used temperatures much higher than 20 degrees..

Perhaps, but you don't have to run your process at high temperatures.

 

[Donald Qualls]

When I've done reversal in the past, I've done it all at room temperature (low to mid 20s C) any modern emulsion (even Foma) can handle that. What I'd avoid is permanganate bleach, which tends to soften the emulsion. Given concerns with potassium dichromate, I'd probably recommend using copper sulfate/sodium chloride with an ammonia follow-up. Stinky (irritating, not to be too polite), but you can do this part and all later steps in a well ventilated, well lit work area.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

Absolutely, but it’s in the interest of everyone to diversify.

CHS100 II is unique. It is a cubic-grain ortho-panchromatic iso 100 film.
Other ortho-panchromatic film I know is Acros II, but that has T (or "sigma") grain.

 

[Helge]

CHS100 II is unique. It is a cubic-grain ortho-panchromatic iso 100 film.
Other ortho-panchromatic film I know is Acros II, but that has T (or "sigma") grain.

Put a medium blue or better yet a cyan filter on any cubic grain pan film and you will have a reasonably good approximation.
Not the same I know, not as sharp a cut, or with the small green dip (possible with a dicro notch filter though if you really wanted it), but close enough for most uses.

 

[Lachlan Young]

@Ernst-Jan @Helge CHSII is more accurately a shorter red sensitivity emulsion - Delta 100 and TMY-II would also fall into the same designation - 'short-red' dyes are also used in Portra (for example).

 

[Helge]

@Ernst-Jan @Helge CHSII is more accurately a shorter red sensitivity emulsion - Delta 100 and TMY-II would also fall into the same designation - 'short-red' dyes are also used in Portra (for example).

What’s the advantage of that?
Ability to work in infrared light while coating and developing?
Cheapness of dyes?

 

[Lachlan Young]

What’s the advantage of that?
Ability to work in infrared light while coating and developing?
Cheapness of dyes?

It's more pleasing to the viewer's perception of how colours should be rendered.

Nothing to do with dye cost whatsoever - you might also want to take a look at the sensitivities of the last version of APX 100 (which is likely what CHS II shares DNA with) and the equal energy sensitivity of FP4+. All are quite short red. As a matter of fact, Efke/ Adox KB25/ KB50 were maybe a little less sensitive into the red than the materials I have listed, but KB100 & PL100M reached nearly to 700nm.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Cheapness of dyes?

This is the likely one, but also consider what's involved in changing the tiniest single factor in an emulsion (i.e. same level of effort as starting completely fresh). If you have a known good formula that happens to include an older dye, you won't change the dye without good reason,

 

[NedL]

To me it's like acros, but with nice pleasant fine grain. The blues don't get blown out, so you can get a pretty nice sky w/ clouds without filters, and the greens separate really nicely -- different hues of green separate out in midtones instead of being nearly the same. I know this is subjective, but I think the way it renders different colors seems natural. I only shot 8 rolls last time it was available in 120, but I really enjoyed using and printing it, so am looking forward to it becoming available again. I can easily imagine it being the only 120 film I need. The base is somewhat stiff/thick and it curls a little for me, but after being in a book for a week or so, it's flat and then the stiffness makes it easier to handle.

 

[markjwyatt]

It's more pleasing to the viewer's perception of how colours should be rendered.

Nothing to do with dye cost whatsoever - you might also want to take a look at the sensitivities of the last version of APX 100 (which is likely what CHS II shares DNA with) ...

I think ADOX Silvermax is a remake of APX 100. The original ADOX was owned by Agfa for a while, but I am not sure if their chemistry got incorporated into APX films (was too late). CHS 100 II is more related to Efke KB100, which was rebranded ADOX film.

Look under "Current Products, Films": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADOX

 

[Helge]

It's more pleasing to the viewer's perception of how colours should be rendered.

Nothing to do with dye cost whatsoever - you might also want to take a look at the sensitivities of the last version of APX 100 (which is likely what CHS II shares DNA with) and the equal energy sensitivity of FP4+. All are quite short red. As a matter of fact, Efke/ Adox KB25/ KB50 were maybe a little less sensitive into the red than the materials I have listed, but KB100 & PL100M reached nearly to 700nm.

Thanks. Seems I didn’t understand or
“get” CHS 100 II.
Looks an interesting film that I totally get the need for to be in 120 again.
Very fine cubic grain at this speed is not that common. And with reversal ability and the nice spectral response and contrast curve on top,
Makes it the bomb.

 

[fs999]

What is RPX50?

My fault, I meant RPX25.

How recently did you check?

In July and August.
https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=15251430@N03&sort=date-taken-desc&text=rpx25&view_all=1

 

[AgX]

The original ADOX was owned by Agfa for a while, but I am not sure if their chemistry got incorporated into APX films (was too late).

You misunderstood your source. Agfa was never related to Adox.

 

[markjwyatt]

You misunderstood your source. Agfa was never related to Adox.

Agfa purchased Sterling from DuPont. Understood this was for X-Ray film, not their current photographic film. At least according to the oracle of truth, Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADOX

In 1962, the Schleussner family sold its photographic holdings to DuPont, ...
...DuPont kept the Adox trademark, transferring it to a subsidiary, Sterling Diagnostic Imaging, for its Adox brand X-ray films...
In 1999, Sterling was bought by the German company Agfa, and was absorbed into Agfa's Health Sciences unit. In this roundabout way, the Adox photographic trademark once again briefly became German. Agfa did not use the Adox trademark, and the mark was removed from the German Patent Office trademark registry in March, 2003.

It is not clear if Sterling's ADOX Brand X-Ray film was Dupont's formulation or Adox' formulation, but my main point was that CHS 100 II is related to Efke R100, not Agfa APX 100, and that I did not think APX 100 is related to the original ADOX film.

My understanding is that Silvermax 100 was formulated based on APX100, but not because of any ownership relationships.

 

[Lachlan Young]

I think ADOX Silvermax is a remake of APX 100. The original ADOX was owned by Agfa for a while, but I am not sure if their chemistry got incorporated into APX films (was too late). CHS 100 II is more related to Efke KB100, which was rebranded ADOX film.

You can start from a fairly similar core formulation & via the sensitising/ finishing steps used end up with two related, yet different materials. Silvermax seemed aimed at using up leftover Agfa components/ sensitisers, while CHSII uses new components, a neg rather than transparency silver level & polyester base. Both are not completely dissimilar & show perceptible relationships with APX100's tonality too.

 

[AgX]

The original ADOX was owned by Agfa for a while, but I am not sure if their chemistry got incorporated into APX films (was too late).

My point was that Agfa never was related to what you called "the original Adox" firm.

What your source (Wikipedia) has it about was a completely different story.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

We should have Adox film in 120 anytime soon. (At 3:00)

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Good news about Adox and 120. Fingers crossed they package up some CMS 20 soon. In regards to FPP's IR sheet film, it's probably Aviphot 200 repackaged, just like Rollei IR. I would have scooped some, but FPP is sold out. Hopefully they'll get their hands on more. Thanks for the video!

 

[fs999]

In regards to FPP's IR sheet film, it's probably Aviphot 200 repackaged, just like Rollei IR.

No it's Agfa-Gevaert Copex HDP (High Definition Pan) (branded as EPM Imagelink HD, don't know how it's named now) microfilm converted & packaged by ADOX (See also SPUR UR).

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

No it's Agfa-Gevaert Copex HDP (High Definition Pan) (branded as EPM Imagelink HD, don't know how it's named now) microfilm converted & packaged by ADOX (See also SPUR UR).

That's good to know. Hopefully FPP will get more in as I am unable to find it anywhere. I normally use Rollei IR in 4x5, but everyone I've been sourcing it from has been out of it. I'm wondering if we are seeing the end of aviphot 200...

 

[Team ADOX]

No it's Agfa-Gevaert Copex HDP (High Definition Pan) (branded as EPM Imagelink HD, don't know how it's named now) microfilm converted & packaged by ADOX (See also SPUR UR).

Just FYI:
Agfa-Gevaert's and meanwhile Imagelink branded microfilms are orthopanchromatic films.
But for an infrared film you need exactly the opposite: Superpanchromatic film (with extended red sensivity).

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

 

[Team ADOX]

We should have Adox film in 120 anytime soon. (At 3:00)

We can ensure you that our policy remains unchanged:
As soon as a new development or product is really ready for market introduction, we will inform the film photographer community immediately here on photrio, and on our social media accounts on facebook and instagram.
We continue to work on new products. Please stay tuned.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

We can ensure you that our policy remains unchanged:
As soon as a new development or product is really ready for market introduction, we will inform the film photographer community immediately here on photrio, and on our social media accounts on facebook and instagram.
We continue to work on new products. Please stay tuned.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

Great to hear your commitment to Photrio. But yeah, if Niko can say it, I guess you are really close.
I am waiting for Acros and Ilfosol to be back in stock, hopefully I can combine it with a brick of CHS 100 II in 120 too.

 

[Team ADOX]

Great to hear your commitment to Photrio.

We definitely remain fully committed to photrio.
It is a great community and we've always appreciated the feedback we've got from the members here.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

 

[pentaxuser]

We can ensure you that our policy remains unchanged:
As soon as a new development or product is really ready for market introduction, we will inform the film photographer community immediately here on photrio, and on our social media accounts on facebook and instagram.
We continue to work on new products. Please stay tuned.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
THE BEST THINGS IN LIFE ARE ANALOG.

Thanks It sounds as if Nico's announcement was premature. Can I take it you are working on restoring the 120 machine or at least working towards the production of 120 films by some means? Did Nico have a conversation with you at all and if he did was the resumption of 120 film spoken of?


pentaxuser