ADOX chemistry security of supply

[MattKing]

Matt, the www.ilfordphoto.com website is both a film community focal point and a retail outlet, and is part of Harman as far as I can tell. Check the ‘contact us’ page, for instance.

But most likely only in the UK. If you log in from a non-UK IP address, you will see a website that offers nothing other than a "Find a Dealer" link - no store front.

 

[snusmumriken]

But most likely only in the UK. If you log in from a non-UK IP address, you will see a website that offers nothing other than a "Find a Dealer" link - no store front.
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Ah, OK, understood.

 

[pentaxuser]

In the UK, that probably links directly to a retail arm, or a particular retailer.

If a potential customer in the U.K. wishes to order direct, he opens an account with Ilfordphoto He pays the price on the site and shipping charge dictated by it and whenever there is a special offer customers are sent that offer with a checkout code

If that is not direct selling then I don't know what is

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

If a potential customer in the U.K. wishes to order direct, he opens an account with Ilfordphoto He pays the price on the site and shipping charge dictated by it and whenever there is a special offer customers are sent that offer with a checkout code

If that is not direct selling then I don't know what is

pentaxuser

For us, outside the UK, the website appears different than it does to you UK people - there are no prices or any other retailing information showing.

 

[MattKing]

Sorry but I don't see any reference to an online shop at www.ilfordphoto.com. I'm not registered.

Most likely, if your location is in Japan, and not the UK.
I am registered on ilfordphoto.com - and no shop shows.

 

[mshchem]

Ofcourse one roll is not economic but if you bought 10 plus some other things it can essily be already cost effective. In the US shipping should not take 6 weeks anymore like I said. For Canada I am not sure ar the moment but we can look into this as well.

Do US customers pay the EU VAT? Do you collect US state sales tax? I bought a Leica from the UK, significantly less expensive, even when paying our state sales tax of 6%

 

[koraks]

for C41 I am very affected by Nordersted closure only if they did provide raw chemistry to Fuji

Fat chance. The other way around, perhaps.

 

[mshchem]

Fat chance. The other way around, perhaps.

Fuji is huge in color chemistry (as you know noted) in every part of the world. Thank goodness!

 

[pentaxuser]

Sorry but I don't see any reference to an online shop at www.ilfordphoto.com. I'm not registered.

Well I have no idea where you are located but I was simply and only making the point that for U.K. customers it does sell direct to them. I have made that distinction several times I was not implying nor have I ever implied in my posts that it directly sells to those outside of the U.K.

pentaxuser

 

[Oren Grad]

But most likely only in the UK. If you log in from a non-UK IP address, you will see a website that offers nothing other than a "Find a Dealer" link - no store front.
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FYI, when accessed from the US, ilfordphoto.com does have online retail integrated. I've ordered from the site - the orders are fulfilled from Roberts Distributing, which is of course the US distributor for Harman. I'm on the site email list and get periodic announcements of time-limited discount offers for orders placed through the site, in addition to other Ilford/Harman news.

 

[MattKing]

FYI, when accessed from the US, ilfordphoto.com does have online retail integrated. I've ordered from the site - the orders are fulfilled from Roberts Distributing, which is of course the US distributor for Harman. I'm on the site email list and get periodic announcements of time-limited discount offers for orders placed through the site, in addition to other Ilford/Harman news.

Not the case in Canada - no such integration.
The Eastman Kodak website used to be similarly complex, as is/was the Kodak Alaris site.
Where you logged in from determined what you saw.

 

[Brad Deputy]

Do US customers pay the EU VAT? Do you collect US state sales tax? I bought a Leica from the UK, significantly less expensive, even when paying our state sales tax of 6%

I bought film from Fotoimpex a month ago, and paid no VAT or sales tax. The order arrived in 3 days.

 

[mshchem]

I bought film from Fotoimpex a month ago, and paid no VAT or sales tax. The order arrived in 3 days.

So VAT would need to be discounted from the EU list price for you to not pay it. Not sure if this is even permitted in the EU???

When traveling to Europe, back a few years, I could have applied for a refund of the VAT, for things not consumed or used in the EU.

Not sure how Fotoimpex handles taxes? I get my Adox chemistry from Freestyle. Fotoimpex has, obviously, a much greater selection.

 

[Steven Lee]

But most likely only in the UK. If you log in from a non-UK IP address, you will see a website that offers nothing other than a "Find a Dealer" link - no store front.
View attachment 336360

I'm in the USA and I see prices, Add to Basket, Checkout and Buy with PayPal buttons. So most likely it's a Canadian thing.

 

[MattKing]

I'm in the USA and I see prices, Add to Basket, Checkout and Buy with PayPal buttons. So most likely it's a Canadian thing.

Or any place else where the exclusive distributor in that country isn't paying for a storefront link between Ilfordphoto.com and their retailing wing. The post from Tsubasa above makes it likely that that applies to Japan as well.

 

[logan2z]

I'm in the USA and I see prices, Add to Basket, Checkout and Buy with PayPal buttons. So most likely it's a Canadian thing.

I see it as well. Their prices are actually the lowest when comparing to my usual go-to places - not by much, but a bit.

Speaking of which, when did FP4+ in 35mm/36 exposures go up to $9.50/roll??

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/24661-USA/Ilford_1649651_FP4_Plus_135_36_Black.html

Maybe just a BH thing as I see it for $2/roll less at other retailers.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

So VAT would need to be discounted from the EU list price for you to not pay it. Not sure if this is even permitted in the EU???

When traveling to Europe, back a few years, I could have applied for a refund of the VAT, for things not consumed or used in the EU.

Not sure how Fotoimpex handles taxes? I get my Adox chemistry from Freestyle. Fotoimpex has, obviously, a much greater selection.

US customers do not pay VAT if we ship to the US. If a US citizen buys from us in our store we have to charge him VAT due to the lack of proof of export for the german authorities. He can -however- claim back the taxes by handing us in the stamped invoice (customs stamp on exit). Our webhop is quite straightforeward about this. The international shop shows both prices with and without VAT and depending on your location VAT is applied at checkout or not (different rates within Europe btw.)

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

actually your initial post is weird because the chemicals you manufacture yourself are for BW but not C41 RA4 you sell on Fotoimpex. These are only in part from the factory in Norderstedt. Fuji x-press kits are produced in Belgium, i don't know about the raw chemicals used in their kit, but is it Norderstedt also? and I always wondered where Hans O. Mahn buy their Digibase/Compard set, I was thinking of Norderstedt or of Calbe but never succeeded in getting an answer.

This statement leaves me puzzled. What exactly is "werid"?
Are you saying you read my post as if we were to produce all chemicals FOTOIMPEX is selling including those of other brands? Naturally this was ment to be ADOX branded chemicals only like it is written.
We cannot comment on other brands and we cannot give informations about products we do not manufacture.

 

[koraks]

This statement leaves me puzzled. What exactly is "werid"?
Are you saying you read my post as if we were to produce all chemicals FOTOIMPEX is selling including those of other brands? Naturally this was ment to be ADOX branded chemicals only like it is written.
We cannot comment on other brands and we cannot give informations about products we do not manufacture.

I think perhaps I should point out that what may seem as critical comments to you, I interpret mostly as concerns of people who have a passion for analog photography and who have experienced over the years a seemingly endless parade of product discontinuations, bankruptcies of valuable (to us) firms and even the occasional case of doubtful conduct on the part of some entrepreneurs. All together, I suppose this has made some of us a little jaded or even mistrustful. When there's news, it's often bad news (sadly), and to make matters worse, transparency is something not every company is equally good at. I personally think that's where some of the more cynical comments come from, and I also believe they're not necessarily aimed at your company.

In other words, if I read between the lines of some of the posts in this thread, what I read is something like "oh no, what's the next thing that'll be taken away, and how are we going to get a clear cut answer on what/how much it actually is?" Mind you, not all companies have been as forthcoming as you are in giving insight into current developments.

In the end, I think what all of us value and appreciate is (1) a company that's committed to the practice of analog photography and (2) a company that's as transparent as they can realistically be.

 

[snusmumriken]

I think perhaps I should point out that what may seem as critical comments to you, I interpret mostly as concerns of people who have a passion for analog photography and who have experienced over the years a seemingly endless parade of product discontinuations, bankruptcies of valuable (to us) firms and even the occasional case of doubtful conduct on the part of some entrepreneurs. All together, I suppose this has made some of us a little jaded or even mistrustful. When there's news, it's often bad news (sadly), and to make matters worse, transparency is something not every company is equally good at. I personally think that's where some of the more cynical comments come from, and I also believe they're not necessarily aimed at your company.

In other words, if I read between the lines of some of the posts in this thread, what I read is something like "oh no, what's the next thing that'll be taken away, and how are we going to get a clear cut answer on what/how much it actually is?" Mind you, not all companies have been as forthcoming as you are in giving insight into current developments.

In the end, I think what all of us value and appreciate is (1) a company that's committed to the practice of analog photography and (2) a company that's as transparent as they can realistically be.

Well said, @koraks, that’s exactly it.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I think perhaps I should point out that what may seem as critical comments to you, I interpret mostly as concerns of people who have a passion for analog photography and who have experienced over the years a seemingly endless parade of product discontinuations, bankruptcies of valuable (to us) firms and even the occasional case of doubtful conduct on the part of some entrepreneurs. All together, I suppose this has made some of us a little jaded or even mistrustful. When there's news, it's often bad news (sadly), and to make matters worse, transparency is something not every company is equally good at. I personally think that's where some of the more cynical comments come from, and I also believe they're not necessarily aimed at your company.

In other words, if I read between the lines of some of the posts in this thread, what I read is something like "oh no, what's the next thing that'll be taken away, and how are we going to get a clear cut answer on what/how much it actually is?" Mind you, not all companies have been as forthcoming as you are in giving insight into current developments.

In the end, I think what all of us value and appreciate is (1) a company that's committed to the practice of analog photography and (2) a company that's as transparent as they can realistically be.

Thank you for clarifying this. The intention of my post was to prevent exactly this
I guess I failed partially
Bad news yes in respect to Tetenal but in the same time good news: We built up our own manufacturing and are ready to supply.
But I understand the mechanisms. For some I guess I played the messenger role.
But like offered above if there are specific questions which do not involve disclosing proprietory informations about other companies I am happy to assist.

 

[koraks]

Thank you for clarifying this. The intention of my post was to prevent exactly this
I guess I failed partially

You're welcome!
I think actually you largely succeeded
We're a tough crowd sometimes. I think it comes with the territory of a hobby/passion that can be exacting at times.

 

[removedacct2]

What exactly is "werid"?
Are you saying you read my post as if we were to produce all chemicals FOTOIMPEX is selling including those of other brands? Naturally this was ment to be ADOX branded chemicals only like it is written.

weird ...

yes of course you were meaning the manufacturing of ADOX branded chemicals. But then what is the point with the closure of Norderstedt relatively to availability of the raw chemicals needed, given the fact that, for black-white, anyone can make chemistry at home from raw chemicals bought elsewhere than from Norderstedt factory...
In fact when reading the OP of this thread I was double surprised because I was fearing a warning about issues with the manufacturing of film by ADOX, and this would be a catastrophe. The other surprise was "what the heck would ADOX need to buy reagents from Norderstedt Chemie anyway, given the fact that big industry Merck ie. Sigma-Aldrich german chemical plants and the ones that went over the years under VWR/Avantor current group, manufacture all reagents needed for BW?" Like if german chemical industry may stop... {moderator's deletion of political "joke"}

C41 on the other hand can be more problematic for hobbyist, depending what Tetenal is going to do if they have nobody to manufacture their popular kit after Norderstedt Chemie. But C41 is not your business.

 

[koraks]

@antonio_b I don't read here about a direct and/or irreplaceable dependence of Adox on what was formerly Tetenal. I think it was stated fairly clearly that much of the raw chemistry comes from Asia, and that Tetenal mostly served as a catalyst (no pun intended) for maintaining the import channels of that chemistry. In the present situation, Adox et al need to directly source some stuff from Asia or develop alternative channels for this. Since the actual manufacturing capacity of those chemicals remains mostly untouched, this is more an inconvenience than anything else.

Also, as @Tsubasa mentioned, what works for you and me on a scale of 100 grams doesn't work the same way if you're sourcing thousand times as much. Essentially amateurs like you and me piggyback on the motions of industry at large. That's not representative for the options you have if you actually are part of that industry. Some things are easier, some are more challenging.

 

[Steven Lee]

@koraks you captured the sentiment perfectly in your previous post. TBH I am surprised by the mild reaction to these news here. Essentially we're being told that both Ilford and Kodak chemistry is no longer manufactured. I remember a while ago disruption of supply of a single developer (Xtol) generated far more angst. I guess you're right, we are all jaded at this point.