ADOX acquires Ilford´s (Switzerland) medium scale coating line

[Lachlan Young]

This would not work. You could choose a sensitizer which is peaking at IR and steeply falling off making it not sensitive to green but then it would rise at blue agan.
However this only reduces the speed of the film if exposed without an IR filter and does not help you to get higher IR sensitivity.

I know this may be commercially sensitive, but are you able to tell us what the general theme of your future products are likely to be? ie, what sort of papers & films we might be likely to see?

Cheers,

Lachlan

 

[StephenT]

Mirko, congratulations! And thank you.

Although not previously a customer, that will now change with my next order. I will be supporting you in every way possible.

Best wishes for a most successful venture.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I know this may be commercially sensitive, but are you able to tell us what the general theme of your future products are likely to be? ie, what sort of papers & films we might be likely to see?

The problem with answering this question is the complexity involved in manufacturing silver halide products. From a comercial standpoint it is pointless to ever enter this market as long as competitors still remain in it working with written off product implementation costs and machinery. But to your luck we are bad merchants, rather enthusiasts ;-)
We also have low cost adaptions on the machine park side but we lack the written off product implementation costs. So designing and making an entirely new product is less likely. It gets into the grey zone if we are talking taking known recipes and reproducing them like we did with MCC/MCP, Agfa chems and Polywarmtone (in progress). It gets very probable if we think about taking existing products and widen the variants (e.g. another version of CHS 100 II on clear TAC in order to bring it back into Super8 cartridges or trying to get it to be an IR film) or enriching the choice of base tints and surfaces of the exisiting paper range.
Will this do for now like this?

Mirko

 

[analoguey]

The problem with answering this question is the complexity involved in manufacturing silver halide products. From a comercial standpoint it is pointless to ever enter this market as long as competitors still remain in it working with written off product implementation costs and machinery. But to your luck we are bad merchants, rather enthusiasts ;-)
We also have low cost adaptions on the machine park side but we lack the written off product implementation costs. So designing and making an entirely new product is less likely. It gets into the grey zone if we are talking taking known recipes and reproducing them like we did with MCC/MCP, Agfa chems and Polywarmtone (in progress). It gets very probable if we think about taking existing products and widen the variants (e.g. another version of CHS 100 II on clear TAC in order to bring it back into Super8 cartridges or trying to get it to be an IR film) or enriching the choice of base tints and surfaces of the exisiting paper range.
Will this do for now like this?

Mirko

Straight talk always works!
Congratulations on the acquisition and good luck with it!

 

[TheToadMen]

Adox: congratulations and thank you for keeping analogue film alive.

As a thank I'll order some extra ADOX films right now through http://www.fotoimpex.de.


EDIT:
Bummer - no stock on ADOX CHS 100 II 120 Medium Format Film and ADOX cmS 20 120 Medium Format Film.
I wanted to test these films in my Mamiya C330f and Hasselblad SWC. But maybe a smaller test first with my Nikon S2 instead?

 

[Lachlan Young]

The problem with answering this question is the complexity involved in manufacturing silver halide products. From a comercial standpoint it is pointless to ever enter this market as long as competitors still remain in it working with written off product implementation costs and machinery. But to your luck we are bad merchants, rather enthusiasts ;-)
We also have low cost adaptions on the machine park side but we lack the written off product implementation costs. So designing and making an entirely new product is less likely. It gets into the grey zone if we are talking taking known recipes and reproducing them like we did with MCC/MCP, Agfa chems and Polywarmtone (in progress). It gets very probable if we think about taking existing products and widen the variants (e.g. another version of CHS 100 II on clear TAC in order to bring it back into Super8 cartridges or trying to get it to be an IR film) or enriching the choice of base tints and surfaces of the exisiting paper range.
Will this do for now like this?

Mirko

That's kind of what I suspected - I'm perfectly happy with that approach. Polywarmtone on both bright & natural substrates would be great, as would a choice of gloss, dead matt & lustre (agfa 118).

If there was any chance of reviving any of the other Forte emulsions, I really liked the grain character of their films.

In an ideal world, I'd be interested to see a polydisperse 1930s-50s grain type film & also a limited ortho/ blue sensitive normal contrast material in rollfilm. On the other hand, these are relatively achievable in a home-lab enviornment.

 

[Ian Leake]

I didn't notice this when you posted, but I'm really pleased. I love using your CHS 100 II And thanks for making ULF sizes easily available

 

[Jessestr]

Great to hear Mirko! I was thinking to a switch of brands because the brand I'm using right now doesn't have any decent iso 100 film that I like Going to try ADOX CMS II for my fashion photography soon!

 

[Ian G]

Keep up the good work Adox.
When I finish my current stock (have been buying Adox films for a while now) I'm going to order a 30m roll of Silvermax, as I just got myself a bulk film loader.
My request/hope would be to eventually see some higher asa products. Your films (AFAIK) are all 100 asa and less. I guess the operative question is where could you bring some added value and innovation to justify the effort, but to my (admittedly technically semi-ignorant) mind some faster film would be the most obvious terrain to explore.
All the best
Ian

 

[madgardener]

This is wonderful news. Congratulations!!

 

[Lachlan Young]

Keep up the good work Adox.
When I finish my current stock (have been buying Adox films for a while now) I'm going to order a 30m roll of Silvermax, as I just got myself a bulk film loader.
My request/hope would be to eventually see some higher asa products. Your films (AFAIK) are all 100 asa and less. I guess the operative question is where could you bring some added value and innovation to justify the effort, but to my (admittedly technically semi-ignorant) mind some faster film would be the most obvious terrain to explore.
All the best
Ian

Mirko has repeatedly stated here & elsewhere that right now there is not much market space for another 400 speed BW film, especially at current prices. Right now their stated intention is to fill gaps in the market - thus Silvermax for Scala/APX, CHSII for Efke etc. I'm really looking forward to the improved Polywarmtone they've been working on.

 

[Michael Guzzi]

What would be cool is a real IR emulsion. But I doubt there is enough demand.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

What would be cool is a real IR emulsion. But I doubt there is enough demand.

I've been waiting... patiently... for someone to fill this void. Even a yearly run on the stuff, like Konika used to do would be nice.

 

[flavio81]

The problem with answering this question is the complexity involved in manufacturing silver halide products. From a comercial standpoint it is pointless to ever enter this market as long as competitors still remain in it working with written off product implementation costs and machinery. But to your luck we are bad merchants, rather enthusiasts ;-)

Mirko, this is excellent to know!! Power to the enthusiasts!

 

[flavio81]

PS: To Mirko,

If i can make a wish, it would be for Adox to release a "Direct Reversal"-type film. That is, a B/W film which gives a reversal image without requiring a reversal process (bleach, re-exposure, etc). I think Agfa "Dia-Direct" (ISO 32) did this in the past.

The theory behind, if i understood correctly, is similar to solarization but in a controlled way: Additional incoming photons 'destroy' the silver and prevents it from developing, thus, white light gives no developed silver and low light gives developed silver (= BLACK).

Nobody is making such a film and I bet that if you can keep the speed 'usable', that is, at least ISO 25, it could be a great alternative to us who want to do B/W reversal but with simpler development. In 120 medium format or in large format this should give BEAUTIFUL, impressive results.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I've been waiting... patiently... for someone to fill this void. Even a yearly run on the stuff, like Konika used to do would be nice.

Instead of waiting, you can use right now the Ilford SFX film.
If you had done that, you'd be now a master of it instead of moaning about discontinued films that will not be coming back anytime soon.

 

[flavio81]

Instead of waiting, you can use right now the Ilford SFX film.

SFX is not a true infrared film.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

SFX is not a true infrared film.

I know, but that's what we have, and the Rollei "Infrared", that is closer to one.

 

[Lachlan Young]

If i can make a wish, it would be for Adox to release a "Direct Reversal"-type film. That is, a B/W film which gives a reversal image without requiring a reversal process (bleach, re-exposure, etc). I think Agfa "Dia-Direct" (ISO 32) did this in the past.

No, the ISO 32 Dia-Direct was a BW negative film for reversal process - the predecessor to Scala. There was a direct positive film they made that may have had a similar name (DD-12?) but was slower still.

The theory behind, if i understood correctly, is similar to solarization but in a controlled way: Additional incoming photons 'destroy' the silver and prevents it from developing, thus, white light gives no developed silver and low light gives developed silver (= BLACK).

Nobody is making such a film and I bet that if you can keep the speed 'usable', that is, at least ISO 25, it could be a great alternative to us who want to do B/W reversal but with simpler development. In 120 medium format or in large format this should give BEAUTIFUL, impressive results.

The contrast in direct-pos films & papers is extreme - part of how they work, I recall. Are you prepared to pay for a (possibly futile) massive R&D project?

Agfa make an ortho direct pos film currently - Avitone PD1p-OS and PD3p-OS - names are for the thick or thin polyester sheet base.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Also, for everyone going on about IR films, look at post (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Michael Guzzi]

Thanks, I admit I didn't read the whole thread, so I have overlooked that post.

Still, something like what Ilford does with LF/ULF film would be nice. I for one would gladly wait 6-12 months for real IR, and would also pay for real IR. I may not buy 10000 feet of it per year, but I would surely buy as much as I could (realistically speaking, some 3-5 100 ft rolls per year). Having played a bit with SFX 200 and Foma 400 (has a bit of near IR sensitivity), and having handled HIE negs, I have to say IR is my favorite type of photography. I just love forests and trees in general, and the look IR film gives to them is just astounding to me.

 

[AgX]

PS: To Mirko,

If i can make a wish, it would be for Adox to release a "Direct Reversal"-type film. That is, a B/W film which gives a reversal image without requiring a reversal process (bleach, re-exposure, etc). I think Agfa "Dia-Direct" (ISO 32) did this in the past.

Nobody is making such a film and I bet that if you can keep the speed 'usable', that is, at least ISO 25, it could be a great alternative to us who want to do B/W reversal but with simpler development. In 120 medium format or in large format this should give BEAUTIFUL, impressive results.

-) "Dia-Direct" was a rather classic b&w film intended for reversal processing at a commercial lab. It goes back on a Gevaert film of this name.


-) Agfa still offers two direct-positive films of the kind you request

-) until recently Maco offered one these films as type 135 and as sheet films ("Rollei SLIDE DIRECT RSD")

 

[flavio81]

Thanks for the Replies !

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

PS: To Mirko,

If i can make a wish, it would be for Adox to release a "Direct Reversal"-type film. That is, a B/W film which gives a reversal image without requiring a reversal process (bleach, re-exposure, etc). I think Agfa "Dia-Direct" (ISO 32) did this in the past.

The theory behind, if i understood correctly, is similar to solarization but in a controlled way: Additional incoming photons 'destroy' the silver and prevents it from developing, thus, white light gives no developed silver and low light gives developed silver (= BLACK).

Nobody is making such a film and I bet that if you can keep the speed 'usable', that is, at least ISO 25, it could be a great alternative to us who want to do B/W reversal but with simpler development. In 120 medium format or in large format this should give BEAUTIFUL, impressive results.

All films of such a "direct" type will have an ISO to low to shoot it. There is currently a "sheetfilm option" available and sold by Fotoimpex cut from a polyester based version of the Ilford direct positive paper called Imago. This is from a batch made by Ilford for the Camera Imago here in Berlin. You can trigger this emulsion a bit but due to the speed loos in the desensitization process you always end up with 3 ASA or less.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Instead of waiting, you can use right now the Ilford SFX film.
If you had done that, you'd be now a master of it instead of moaning about discontinued films that will not be coming back anytime soon.

It is actually not such a great task to manufacture a true IR film again.