A Sinkhole of Money

[mshchem]

FFS, if you are tired of my posts, THEN DONT READ THEM.

Am I the ONLY one who passes posts that I know I wont like? Seriously?

Well said Ratty !

 

[RattyMouse]

Well said Ratty !

Thank you kind sir!

 

[RattyMouse]

How many pairs of designer shoes did your wife buy with your camera money?

My wife was born in rural China, and so had next to nothing for most of her life. She rarely ever buys herself anything. She's quite the miser and only now at 53 years old is learning how to treat herself to anything. She would never buy something like an expensive set of shoes or a designer purse.

 

[RattyMouse]

Compared to many leisure time activities, $1000 a year is not a lot ($83 a month). Travel, for one, will gobble up cash at an impressive rate. One great thing about purchasing photo gear is that you can sell it when you’re done with it and recoup cash. Try doing that with a trip to Tahiti...

I love travel so almost never regret that money spent.

 

[guangong]

Ratty, reading those that disagree with me gives me a wider perspective. Trigger warnings

FFS, if you are tired of my posts, THEN DONT READ THEM.

Am I the ONLY one who passes posts that I know I wont like? Seriously?

Ratty, for the most part I enjoy reading those who have different viewpoints from my own. When I went to school there were no trigger warnings or snowflakes.
Probably in real inflation adjusted dollars my Leicas, Rolleiflex and Hasselblad, accumulated, though over a longer period, probably comes close to your figure.
As I pointed out, to each his own. If you find that 35 mm is no longer satisfying by all means pass it on. I must confess to being not only a cautious buyer but also an accumulator, which explains my 60 year hord. At least you are clearing a space.
By the way, during the war against Japan my father in law raised an army to fight them. My wife was a little girl then and constantly on the run from Japanese soldiers so she missed a lot of early schooling. After Mao’s victory family escaped to Hong Kong because father then targeted for extermination by Communists.

 

[removed account4]

I'm sure some of them use dSLRs and think 60$ per month for films is insane. Go figure.

at the time it was only film and some were shooting an awful lot of it..
now the same coffee drinks, if they continued to feed the monkey on their back
would cost them2.5x what they were paying ... 1K/years for camera-stuff is nothing
( that was 20 /DAY and would be 50/DAY ...1500/MONTH ... 18,000$/year) and that doesn't even count
the once in a while $6 coffee slushy cold thing )

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I had dozens of film cameras and very many lenses since I started with self-developing film in 2012. It was way less expensive comparing to digital and much more educative. I have tried every possible type of film cameras. And film formats. It helped me to realize what I need just one specific camera type and most common SLR for just in case. I keep same SLR we purchased for home in nineties.
But I never grow my gear to 10K price mark. I was buying, trying and selling. Why spend new money if it is possible to buy, try and sell with small loss? I even made some profit with some film cameras and lenses, by buying them in as is condition. Most, if not all of them needed just CLA or simple fix, which I did by myself.

For digital it is where money drain and waste is. Too expensive, but in reality my consumer 2008 Model DSLR is as good as fancy modern cameras. And digital cameras depreciate in price rapidly.
I recieved more expensive digital camera as the gift in addition to DSLR. This is it.

 

[RattyMouse]

Ratty, reading those that disagree with me gives me a wider perspective. Trigger warnings


Ratty, for the most part I enjoy reading those who have different viewpoints from my own. When I went to school there were no trigger warnings or snowflakes.
Probably in real inflation adjusted dollars my Leicas, Rolleiflex and Hasselblad, accumulated, though over a longer period, probably comes close to your figure.
As I pointed out, to each his own. If you find that 35 mm is no longer satisfying by all means pass it on. I must confess to being not only a cautious buyer but also an accumulator, which explains my 60 year hord. At least you are clearing a space.
By the way, during the war against Japan my father in law raised an army to fight them. My wife was a little girl then and constantly on the run from Japanese soldiers so she missed a lot of early schooling. After Mao’s victory family escaped to Hong Kong because father then targeted for extermination by Communists.

I certainly don't complain about other people's right to post whatever they want but some snowflakes simply cannot countenance viewpoints that do not agree with their own.

My in-laws had to go through some rough times in China too. They starved so bad in the '50s during the Great Leap Forward, that they never grew to their natural height. They are very short people because they were constantly hungry during their teenage years. Of course, they were the lucky ones as over 50 million starved to death due to the insanity of what passed for leadership in China back then.

 

[RattyMouse]

Too expensive, but in reality my consumer 2008 Model DSLR is as good as fancy modern cameras.

There's been a lot of advancement in sensor technology since 2008. My DSLR is from that period of time or slightly earlier and shooting at ISO1600 is a painful experience. Today's cameras shoot well in excess of ISO6400 without much image degradation at all. I dont see how one can objectively say that a 2008 camera is as good as one today.

 

[Jim Jones]

It isn't the best camera that produces the best photos, it is the best photographer. Pulitzer prizes have been won with box cameras. A few of the photos I take now with a bottom-of-the-line DSLR are far better than anything I could do with a Leica 65 years ago. However, a quality camera is a durable long-term investment. My latest Leica, bought new on 1970, is still going strong. It's that constant minimal upgrading that gets expensive.

 

[trendland]

Stop these trolling post please.

If I had spent $10,000 in the last 10 years on gear (hardware) I'd have assets worth 5-10 times what I'd have spent because I'm careful and do a little research price wise.. I have cameras I've paid £50 for that I can easily sell for £750 or cutting my losses definitely £500. It's the same with lenses, tripods and various other items.

It's about time you stopped these constant negative film/camera trolling posts Mr RattyMouse, they aren't positive or even remotely informative. I'm really not sure why you post here on this Forum at all, except maybe to sell items.

Ian

Not sure if I'd understood "MR RATTY MOUSE" corect
But from my point every single buck to spent into equipment is a well done investment.
Under just two basic requirements :
1) buy the right equipment
2) use it carefully
with regards
PPS : My Pentax bought 2005 is in 2018 in 100% same condition :
it has some fingerprints but sure this is remouvable.
My Voigtländer Bessa R3a in "dull gray" have cost me no cent more due to the special color - but it has the same condition.
with regards
PS : A Leica R7 (with USD 8000,- lens) on the beach in summer may be a money grave. But just in concern of the beach (white sand is not good to Leica mechanics)

 

[Hatchetman]

I figure how do you know which one you like the best unless you've tried them all?

 

[4season]

I dont see how one can objectively say that a 2008 camera is as good as one today.

"For his purposes"?

Sometimes I think I should collect older digital cameras which have a certain look which is good but not too refined: Let's see some grittiness at ISO 400! Sometimes I regret selling my Ricoh GX100 for that very reason. Ditto my Canon Powershot SD1000, one of the very rare cheap compacts which appeared to have weak antialiasing and little noise reduction. It was perhaps the finest photographic purchase I have made from an office-supply store to date.

 

[faberryman]

Photography is either a sinkhole of money or an investment in yourself depending on whether or not you are getting anything out of it. For me, the equipment is not where the money is going; it is the monthly ordering of supplies - film, paper, chemicals, mat board, etc. I am printing platinum palladium so its not like just the odd liter of DDX here or gallon of fixer there. I'll continue doing it until I am no longer enjoying it, but I will always have my prints. If you are not printing, but just accumulating negatives in a binder, then you may feel cheated when you decide to stop.

 

[RattyMouse]

"For his purposes"?

Sometimes I think I should collect older digital cameras which have a certain look which is good but not too refined: Let's see some grittiness at ISO 400! Sometimes I regret selling my Ricoh GX100 for that very reason. Ditto my Canon Powershot SD1000, one of the very rare cheap compacts which appeared to have weak antialiasing and little noise reduction. It was perhaps the finest photographic purchase I have made from an office-supply store to date.

I agree, some of the older cameras have distinct looks, most likely because there was much more variety in sensor manufacturing back then. The original Canon 1D was amazing in that it had a very distinct CCD sensor. My digital is a Fujifilm S5 Pro, again, a CCD sensor. It's awful past ISO800 but if you can keep the ISO low, has spectacular colors.

 

[RattyMouse]

Photography is either a sinkhole of money or an investment in yourself depending on whether or not you are getting anything out of it. For me, the equipment is not where the money is going; it is the monthly ordering of supplies - film, paper, chemicals, mat board, etc. I am printing platinum palladium so its not like just a liter of DDX here or a gallon of fixer there. I'll continue doing it until I am no longer enjoying it, but I will always have my prints. If you are not printing, but just accumulating negatives in a binder, then you may feel cheated when you decide to stop.

I really really really wanted to start printing once I got my new house. However, I have been continually stopped because I cannot make any room 100% dark. My basement has these recessed windows that are extremely difficult to cover up. There are parts of the ceiling blocking the windows as well as plumbing. There is no flat surface I can hang curtains or other objects that would block out the light. I would literally have to either paint the glass totally black or remove the windows by walling them up. I have so many negatives, not one has been printed optically. It's such a shame.

 

[Nodda Duma]

You want to get into a real money pit of a hobby? Try amateur astrophotography! To even start getting consistently decent results, you have to plunk down about $10,000 for the gear. Then as you get further into it, you find yourself desiring a backyard observatory, better mounts, automation .... $$$$$. All the work is at night, and when you start wanting to automate everything you find out how much a good night's sleep is worth to you. Without exception among advanced amateurs, the answer is quite a flipping lot! Of course, at some point it hits you that you are capturing photons that are millions or even billions of years old, and that is just incredibly awesome.

http://www1.iwvisp.com/opticman/astroimages/astroimages.html

I moved from that into "regular" photography because it's MUCH cheaper!

-Jason

 

[4season]

I really really really wanted to start printing once I got my new house. However, I have been continually stopped because I cannot make any room 100% dark. My basement has these recessed windows that are extremely difficult to cover up. There are parts of the ceiling blocking the windows as well as plumbing. There is no flat surface I can hang curtains or other objects that would block out the light. I would literally have to either paint the glass totally black or remove the windows by walling them up. I have so many negatives, not one has been printed optically. It's such a shame.

If you can block the well itself, then this becomes a lot easier: I used to use styrofoam insulation sheets wrapped in black poly. Very quick to set up or remove. Biggest problem I faced was lack of ventilation.

 

[RattyMouse]

If you can block the well itself, then this becomes a lot easier: I used to use styrofoam insulation sheets wrapped in black poly. Very quick to set up or remove. Biggest problem I faced was lack of ventilation.

There is no well on the outside of the house for each window. They are at knee level from the ground when viewed from the outside. Painting the windows is the best solution I can come up with to make a dark room but I'm not going to do that. I've given up ever being able to print. There are no public dark rooms where I live and I'm not leaving this house for a good 10 years or so.

 

[slackercrurster]

Op...if you need it, keep it.

If not, then sure sell it.

 

[NJH]

You don't really need pitch black for printing, just much darker than the light from the enlarger.

Photography is cheap compared to anything to do with horses or motor cars, which then seems to go up exponentially when one races them. I used to race cars, my last season was 2013. That year one of the guys out of our race shop of about 1/2 dozen spent £46K. For my part I did it on minimal expenditure but I can remember one race weekend at Silverstone costing me over £2K. That was it for me.

Like others have said its the printing and framing that racks it up as its money spent every time you do a print or frame a print. I am only an occasional printer but it must be costing me a good few hundred a year in paper and framing. Surely if you are not printing yourself you must be getting prints done by the hybrid route?

 

[dpurdy]

I look at photographic expenses as investments in myself. I have a lot of money tied up in cameras lenses and platinum chemicals but don't spend frivolously or buy what I won't use. However now sitting here looking at my brand new 12 string guitar and a bunch of accessories and having no aspirations other than amusing myself.. I guess that is a sink hole... with my 2 other guitars and uke. I always read your posts Ratty, never considered complaining about them. Kind of surprising to me.
Dennis

 

[RattyMouse]

I always read your posts Ratty, never considered complaining about them. Kind of surprising to me.
Dennis

Thank you kind sir. Thankfully this thread has not been derailed by the intolerant, petty individuals. I appreciate your post and others who have chimed in with their views on this topic. It can be a very philosphical thought experiment on photography so that is why I posted in in the ethics & philosophy forum. I'm just as surprised as you that despite my best attempt to make this a positive contribution to the forum a few had to step in and try to drag it down.

 

[RattyMouse]

Surely if you are not printing yourself you must be getting prints done by the hybrid route?

Yes, I have done hybrid printing, but that was never my goal when I returned to film. I wanted to take my negatives all the way to optical printing, but that has not happened and is not likely to happen.

 

[Ian Grant]

Report me to the moderator.
Ian- read more carefully. If you had, you'd have seen this text: "This is not a critical comment towards others (or myself!)....."

You see? I went out of my way to make sure this post was not taken negatively, yet you in your stampede to respond missed that. Slow down. If you want to buy my gear, it's all on craigslist. I've got one item up there that hasnt sold yet. I'm not even linking to it and never had during this binge of selling that I have done. None of the gear I have sold has gone to any APUG members.

There's something wrong in your post on an Analog forum, why is investing in film based equipment a sink-hole? Ive bought a large amount of film based equipment in the last 10 years and almost all is worth a hell of a lot more today compared to when I bought it.

Personally I think buying Digital equipment and constantly try to keep up is the sink-hole if you're not careful. Buying far more than you need is universal maybe that's what you mean.

Now I'm speaking as someone that has deliberately bought a lot of duplicate, triplicate, and more equipment in the time frame you are talking about and at a low cost. In my case it's an investment. A sink-hole would be a big drop in value.

My criticism is because we need more positive posts and attitudes. My local pub/bar is a place of hope, it's very small but in the top 4 Real Ale (beer) pubs in the UK this year, has 15 different beers, 4 ciders and a craft Lager) but has some youngsters into film photography. They need our encouragement.

Ian