A Sinkhole of Money

[RattyMouse]

There's something wrong in your post on an Analog forum, why is investing in film based equipment a sink-hole?

A sink hole is just an analogy for something that consumes a lot of money. As mentioned earlier I've spent a good $10k on analogue gear. Counting digital and it hits close to $14k. In my book that's a sinkhole. In my usage, it's an objective term, without comment as to being good or bad. It just is. In my post, I CLEARLY stated I thought my money spent on photography gear was positive. I dont know why you had to throw a fit over this post.

 

[moose10101]

There's something wrong in your post on an Analog forum, why is investing in film based equipment a sink-hole? Ive bought a large amount of film based equipment in the last 10 years and almost all is worth a hell of a lot more today compared to when I bought it.

Personally I think buying Digital equipment and constantly try to keep up is the sink-hole if you're not careful. Buying far more than you need is universal maybe that's what you mean.

Now I'm speaking as someone that has deliberately bought a lot of duplicate, triplicate, and more equipment in the time frame you are talking about and at a low cost. In my case it's an investment. A sink-hole would be a big drop in value.

My criticism is because we need more positive posts and attitudes. My local pub/bar is a place of hope, it's very small but in the top 4 Real Ale (beer) pubs in the UK this year, has 15 different beers, 4 ciders and a craft Lager) but has some youngsters into film photography. They need our encouragement.

Ian

The "Ethics and Philosophy" subforum is technology-neutral, as clearly marked by the site's owner.

And the biggest impediment to this site encouraging film use is hiding the examples of film photography behind a pay wall.

 

[faberryman]

And the biggest impediment to this site encouraging film use is hiding the examples of film photography behind a pay wall.

You obviously haven't been paying attention. For some months now the media area has been freely available to both subscribers and non-subscribers alike. There is no pay wall.

 

[moose10101]

You obviously haven't been paying attention. For some months now the media area is now freely available to both subscribers and non-subscribers alike. There is no pay wall.

I'm on the site regularly, so no, it's not obvious. I saw nothing about it. According to the post I just found in the System Announcements subforum, it's been open only since April 13th. Thanks for pointing it out; it was long overdue.

 

[warden]

You don't really need pitch black for printing, just much darker than the light from the enlarger.

I've found this to be true as well. My first darkroom was 100% blackness with the lights off because I was meticulous setting it up. The one I have now (just an area of my basement) isn't even close to dark - it's kind of embarrassing how bright it is actually. But if I print after dark it makes no difference at all.

 

[BrianShaw]

A sink hole is just an analogy for something that consumes a lot of money. As mentioned earlier I've spent a good $10k on analogue gear. Counting digital and it hits close to $14k. In my book that's a sinkhole. In my usage, it's an objective term, without comment as to being good or bad. It just is. In my post, I CLEARLY stated I thought my money spent on photography gear was positive. I dont know why you had to throw a fit over this post.

Why not fix the “problem” and change the title to:

A big bucket o’money.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There is no well on the outside of the house for each window. They are at knee level from the ground when viewed from the outside. Painting the windows is the best solution I can come up with to make a dark room but I'm not going to do that. I've given up ever being able to print. There are no public dark rooms where I live and I'm not leaving this house for a good 10 years or so.

One set of windows I blocked the light with a flat cardboard box inside the blinds and then cover with a darkroom cloth. For another I cut plywood to the size and shape of the window, put two handles on the back for insertion and removal, and then I put a large darkroom cloth on the front of the board. I insert the board and the cloth in the window and then tape the cloth to the wall around the window. All for less money then the cost of new ink cartridges in the photo printer.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You don't really need pitch black for printing, just much darker than the light from the enlarger.

Photography is cheap compared to anything to do with horses or motor cars, which then seems to go up exponentially when one races them. I used to race cars, my last season was 2013. That year one of the guys out of our race shop of about 1/2 dozen spent £46K. For my part I did it on minimal expenditure but I can remember one race weekend at Silverstone costing me over £2K. That was it for me.

Like others have said its the printing and framing that racks it up as its money spent every time you do a print or frame a print. I am only an occasional printer but it must be costing me a good few hundred a year in paper and framing. Surely if you are not printing yourself you must be getting prints done by the hybrid route?

I found that to be true for color and black & white enlarging and printing.

 

[removed account4]

ratty

https://www.amazon.com/Eroica-Black...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00MQADTVY

it is fabric you can attach with velcro. it doesn't take much effort to turn a room dark ...

 

[Vaughn]

If someone wants to make a room dark they will...if it is not important to them, they will not.

Normally "sinkhole" has negative connotations -- nothing comes back out of one.

 

[RattyMouse]

If someone wants to make a room dark they will...if it is not important to them, they will not.

I have had two contractors come out and tell me I'd have to remove part of my ceiling (i.e. the floor of my living room) to get full access to my window. I can't get to the window because the support beams of the floor run parallel to the window. In addition, I'd have to reroute the plumbing from my hot water heater which travels right in front of that window as well. I am not going to do that. My wife would kill me. That does NOT make it unimportant to me.

Normally "sinkhole" has negative connotations -- nothing comes back out of one.

I clearly stated I had no negative meaning in my text.

 

[Sirius Glass]

ratty

https://www.amazon.com/Eroica-Black...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00MQADTVY

it is fabric you can attach with velcro. it doesn't take much effort to turn a room dark ...

I use velcro over some windows and doors.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have had two contractors come out and tell me I'd have to remove part of my ceiling (i.e. the floor of my living room) to get full access to my window. I can't get to the window because the support beams of the floor run parallel to the window. In addition, I'd have to reroute the plumbing from my hot water heater which travels right in front of that window as well. I am not going to do that. My wife would kill me. That does NOT make it unimportant to me.


For the intellectually challenged, I clearly stated I had no negative meaning in my text. Didnt matter, the poor snowflakes were offended anyway.

You do not need a sink. I do the print washing in a bathtub with the lights on. I put the Jobo processor on the kitchen counter so it can drain into the sink in daylight.

 

[pbromaghin]

You want dark? Just staple some black sheet plastic to that support beam.

 

[removed account4]

For the intellectually challenged, I clearly stated I had no negative meaning in my text. Didnt matter, the poor snowflakes were offended anyway.

you a phony !

 

[Sean]

And the biggest impediment to this site encouraging film use is hiding the examples of film photography behind a pay wall.

fyi- The gallery was recently made viewable to all

 

[removed account4]

fyi- The gallery was recently made viewable to all

thats baaaad !

 

[bobsteele]

My criticism is because we need more positive posts and attitudes.

YOU REALLY NEED TO GET INTO FILM CAUSE ITS FUN11!!!! AND EASY AND YOULL NEVER HAVE A SET BACK, CAUSE FILM IS FOREVER AND EVERYTHING WILL ALWAYS BE AVAILABLE OR A BETTER OPTION YOU WILL LIKE JUST AS WELL IS OUT THERE LOOK FOR IT. YOULL NEVER BE DISAPPOINTED, I PROMISE11!!!!

That what you mean?

 

[removed account4]

YOU REALLY NEED TO GET INTO FILM CAUSE ITS FUN11!!!! AND EASY AND YOULL NEVER HAVE A SET BACK, CAUSE FILM IS FOREVER AND EVERYTHING WILL ALWAYS BE AVAILABLE OR A BETTER OPTION YOU WILL LIKE JUST AS WELL IS OUT THERE LOOK FOR IT. YOULL NEVER BE DISAPPOINTED, I PROMISE11!!!!

That what you mean?

naaah

its the whole positivity breeds positivity thing //
not all caps but just something like " jepers crow, i just took inventory of my stuff i sold and it was like 10grand ! woo hoo ! so glad i sold it though
i wasn't using it all, and i could just pass on all the positive vibes the cameras gave me, i LOVED those cameras, to the next person to shoot magnificent images
and an extra bonus is extra cash ! woo hoo woot !! "
instead of the whole debbie downer thing ...

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I easily have a luxury sedan's worth of camera gear, not to mention books on photography. And I'd much rather have spent the money on the cameras, books, film and printing than on a car. I probably have close to $20K in view camera bodies alone, not counting film holders, lenses, tripods, etc. And don't even start on the medium format and digital stuff... The cameras will last me longer than the car, and in the end cost me less to use.

 

[chris77]

as i see it, mr. rattymouse is still suffering from the loss of acros, isn't that right?

what i really dont like in this thread is the starbucks advertisement!!
therefore, take this:


cheers

 

[Ian Grant]

YOU REALLY NEED TO GET INTO FILM CAUSE ITS FUN11!!!! AND EASY AND YOULL NEVER HAVE A SET BACK, CAUSE FILM IS FOREVER AND EVERYTHING WILL ALWAYS BE AVAILABLE OR A BETTER OPTION YOU WILL LIKE JUST AS WELL IS OUT THERE LOOK FOR IT. YOULL NEVER BE DISAPPOINTED, I PROMISE11!!!!

That what you mean?

No not at all.

naaah

its the whole positivity breeds positivity thing //
not all caps but just something like " jepers crow, i just took inventory of my stuff i sold and it was like 10grand ! woo hoo ! so glad i sold it though
i wasn't using it all, and i could just pass on all the positive vibes the cameras gave me, i LOVED those cameras, to the next person to shoot magnificent images
and an extra bonus is extra cash ! woo hoo woot !! "
instead of the whole debbie downer thing ...

John has picked up what I mean about the the lack of positivity.

Lets list some positive moves in recent months/last couple of years.

Adox have taken over part of the former Ilford/Ciba coating plant in Marly, Switzerland, to make film and paper.
Foma introduced a new B&W film
Kodak are re-introducing films B&W and Colour
The Impossible Project has acquired the Polaroid name and rights
Ferrania have taken steps towards manufacturing colour films
Ilford (Harman) re-introduced Harman Direct Positive paper after the collapse and closure of the Swiss company Ilford Imaging (formerly Ciba/Tellko).
Dry plate now available again

There are projects to launch new 35mm film cameras
More manufacturers of LF cameras
Rodenstock making small batches of new LF lenses

The only negative is the lowest selling B&W film has been discontinued by Fuji, there's still plenty of choice in the market though.

Ian

 

[AgX]

There's something wrong in your post on an Analog forum, why is investing in film based equipment a sink-hole? Ive bought a large amount of film based equipment in the last 10 years and almost all is worth a hell of a lot more today compared to when I bought it.

Financially I indeed see what I bought as sinkhole. I doubt I ever could get back what I spent on it in total just money wise. Not even adding my working hours. In case I would have to get rid of it in short time I even would have to spend money on it !

But, taking a personal stand, as another member already called it, it is an investment in myself.

 

[RattyMouse]

You do not need a sink. I do the print washing in a bathtub with the lights on. I put the Jobo processor on the kitchen counter so it can drain into the sink in daylight.

I have a sink. What I dont have is free and clear access to the windows. They are blocked by 3 issues, plumbing, the ceiling cuts across them, and they are recessed.

 

[RattyMouse]

You want dark? Just staple some black sheet plastic to that support beam.

If only it were that easy. It's not. Trust me. I'd do that in a heart beat. I have wanted to start printing for TWO solid years since I bought this house.