A brand new Super 8 camera from Kodak?

[Photo Engineer]

Roger, where have you been?

ECN and ECP are used around the world as the last existing high quality motion picture stock!

It is processed in nearly every country in the world, and certainly on every continent!

PE

 

[Roger Cole]

Roger, where have you been?

ECN and ECP are used around the world as the last existing high quality motion picture stock!

It is processed in nearly every country in the world, and certainly on every continent!

PE

I know that, but didn't know it was cut in 8mm. It was something I read up-thread (I can see if I can find it if folks want) about print film no longer being available. Good to know that's wrong and I retract that comment.

So to revise my comment that started this, the film you get back is only "useless" in the same sense your 35mm negatives are. You probably won't enjoy using or displaying them, but you can use them to make additional quality display prints (move prints in the 8mm case.) I imagine you could make regular RA4 prints from individual frames for still as well, if you're into very tiny formats.

 

[georg16nik]

You can easily print on 16mm, in case 8mm prints were non-existent; or just get one of the cheaper scanners for Super 8, if that’s your thing.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Try not to laugh too hard at my stupid question: what is the difference between a positive film and a reversal film?

It seems to me that if I want to shoot 16mm, have it developed, and project the results, my only choice is Tri-X reversal. Anything else (such as color) involves copying from negative film, right?

 

[btaylor]

Yes. The old direct projection films like Kodachrome and Ektachrome were beautiful to look at, what the camera saw was up on the screen. There is a generation loss when you make a print.

 

[Joshuaf]

I think it is neato.

 

[Photo Engineer]

You cannot easily make good RA4 prints from ECN.

PE

 

[kb3lms]

Perhaps they instinctively realize that sometimes a little more pain is good for the soul.

Yep, good old "sweat equity"!

"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things...

OT, but how come no one can make speeches like that any more?????

 

[cmacd123]

Roger, where have you been?
ECN and ECP are used around the world as the last existing high quality motion picture stock!

But it is Not common (any more) in 8mm, and with the exception of a VERY FEW labs (who are quite likly doing some of their own conversion and perforation of the stock) places - No one will make a super 8 print from a Super 8 ECN original. (which is mostly used in a computer video flow) likewise regular 8 ecn never officially appeared, and ECP in regular 8 was generally exclusively for the commercially filmed Home movie market. (castle films and friends).

even in 16mm only a relatively small number of the available labs will make a 16mm print from a 16mm camera original as a standard service.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Obama can cry pretty good!

 

[Photo Engineer]

But it is Not common (any more) in 8mm, and with the exception of a VERY FEW labs (who are quite likly doing some of their own conversion and perforation of the stock) places - No one will make a super 8 print from a Super 8 ECN original. (which is mostly used in a computer video flow) likewise regular 8 ecn never officially appeared, and ECP in regular 8 was generally exclusively for the commercially filmed Home movie market. (castle films and friends).

even in 16mm only a relatively small number of the available labs will make a 16mm print from a 16mm camera original as a standard service.

I KNOW that. I was merely commenting as a reply to Roger's post.

But then, we don't know what Kodak has planned!

PE

 

[Roger Cole]

You cannot easily make good RA4 prints from ECN.

PE

Well even less use then. To me at least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk and 100% recycled electrons - because I care.

 

[AgX]

Consumer and amateurs are not the intended market if some of them buy it great if not who cares. The target market is filmschools and Super8mm is way cheaper than 16mm but still teaches you the discipline and vocabulary that is necessary to work in the mp industry.

But strange enough at their website Kodak list their annonced S-8 camera at the "Consumer" register, not at the "Commercial>Motion Picture" register, where in the past anything cinematographic was listed, including S-8.

 

[cmacd123]

You cannot easily make good RA4 prints from ECN.

PE

the apparent contrast of a paper print made directly from the movie stocks is on the low side. the printer settings are a touch different from the still films, so that the lab would have to do some work to get the colours to behave, this is especially true when the Tungsten ecn films are shot without the recommended 85 filter in daylight lighting.

Likewise - the labs that used to offer slides from colour still negatives using ECP stock tended to produce slides that were extra contrasty.

 

[AgX]

Roger, where have you been?

ECN and ECP are used around the world as the last existing high quality motion picture stock!

It is processed in nearly every country in the world, and certainly on every continent!

In 35mm and likely in 16mm.
But I know cinelabs who aside those two formats only list 8mm scanning not 8mm processing.

 

[cmacd123]

Try not to laugh too hard at my stupid question: what is the difference between a positive film and a reversal film?

It seems to me that if I want to shoot 16mm, have it developed, and project the results, my only choice is Tri-X reversal. Anything else (such as color) involves copying from negative film, right?

not silly at all.

The movie industry has always used Negative / positive for productions that are shown to a lot of folks. no mater if for a theatre or the "industrial" films that used to be common in training and marketing, one negative and many copies.

"Home" movies where their was only one or two copies expected to be made were almost always done on reversal film - and this was the main forte of Kodachrome.

since the reversal stocks are getting hard to find, (with our fingers crossed that the lads in Italy at FilmFerrania will change that situation) the path for a personal movie in colour boils down to shooting a colour Negative like 7203, and having the lab make you a print from that. The term vearies with the lab but it generally is known as a Best Light work-print. The production guys would use the workprint to do their editing, and when they were happy would cut and splice the Camera negative to match, which explains the "work" part of the name. Best light just means that the lab will expose the print at what ever settings they think are the best compromise for the whole roll. (and for extra money you can have what is called a "timed work print" where they go though and try to give every scene the best exposure on the print, but that is of course a lot more labour intensive.)

Just stash the negative away and use the work print in place of the reversla movie you would have received in the past.

Only real GOTCHA is the Print will be on a Polyester base, so if you don't have a fancy Ultrasonic splicer, you will have to use Tape splices on it. And since it is a contact print, the image enulsion will be on teh other side of the film than a comera original, and so the focus will require adjustment if it is mixed with older reversal footage.

Prints form Negatives are also available from 7222 double-X and Orwo n74, and UN54 done as a negative. in B&W.

OH an black and white reversal besides Tri-X includes the UN54 as reversal, as well as the FOMA r-100, BUT the foma is not happy in the standard Kodak reversal process so you should check with the lab before shooting to see if they have a work around.

 

[MattKing]

How will Kodak get around the US restriction on "processing-included" bundles?

The consent decree that limited "processing included" Kodachrome was allowed to lapse/cancelled by the anti-trust authorities when it became moot.

I would surmise that it would probably come back if a potential for a competitive processing market arose again.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

The movie industry has always used Negative / positive for productions that are shown to a lot of folks. no mater if for a theatre or the "industrial" films that used to be common in training and marketing, one negative and many copies.

"Home" movies where their was only one or two copies expected to be made were almost always done on reversal film - and this was the main forte of Kodachrome.

...

So when I see "positive" film stock for sale, is that the film which the negative film is exposed onto? That is, the positive film will become basically a negative of a negative but with higher contrast?

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

OT, but how come no one can make speeches like that any more?????

Because we don't think like that anymore.

There was a time when challenges were relished. No more. Today we run from them. For the young, if it can't happen in an Internet moment, then their attention spans are exceeded. And for the old, they are too set in their past comfortable ways to even begin to risk new ways of thinking. Youth is unmotivated by change, and age is terrified by it.

Ken

 

[Roger Cole]

Because we don't think like that anymore.

There was a time when challenges were relished. No more. Today we run from them. For the young, if it can't happen in an Internet moment, then their attention spans are exceeded. And for the old, they are too set in their past comfortable ways to even begin to risk new ways of thinking. Youth is unmotivated by change, and age is terrified by it.

Ken

Spot on. Sadly so.

 

[MDR]

But strange enough at their website Kodak list their annonced S-8 camera at the "Consumer" register, not at the "Commercial>Motion Picture" register, where in the past anything cinematographic was listed, including S-8.

That's weird yes, but I believe it has more to do with the presentation of the camera at the CES 2016 than the camera and film actually being geared towards consumers. Also the site is titled Kodak collection which again makes me think that the site was created for the CES. Furthermore journalists and people interested in the product who saw it a the CES will most likely look at the consumer site first. What scares me more is the reference to the Instamatic "Brownie. Instamatic. Super 8."

 

[MDR]

According to Bloomberg news http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-07/new-kodak-super-8-concept-camera-first-look-video the files you will get from the scanned film will be in 4K it also appears they will try to market it at not only filmschools but "hipsters" as well. At least after looking at the video on the Bloomberg site.

 

[Nodda Duma]

I disagree that people run from challenges. That's too broad a brush and I can think of hundreds of exceptions that I've observed over the past few years.

The problem these days is that it's not celebrated on the mainstream media. The challenges faced today are either personal or too difficult to explain (everyone understands it's tough to put a man on the moon, but do they truly understand how difficult it was to develop the iPhone?)

So if you have a small social circle and/or just watch the mainstream news, you won't agree with me. Which leads to this:

Not taking into account human nature is the root cause of lots of unresolved arguments on APUG.

Ken

Not taking into account human nature causes A LOT more arguments and angst than just here on APUG. . The humanity tends to be ignored these days.

 

[removed account4]

Interesting, but I would have thought that there are numerous second-hand super-8 cameras already about at quite reasonable prices, some from very high quality makers, for those who are interested.

i know what you mean.
i have been waiting on a friend who makes wedding films using super 8.
i think his main problem over the last few years is the lack of color film
and the dwindling number of processing houses. shooting movie film
is not for the faint of wallet, when i did it for a little while costs added up quick.
if they can make it work, good for them ! and that would mean they would be back in
the processing game which was always part of their bread+butter.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

How will Kodak get around the US restriction on "processing-included" bundles?

The consent decree that limited "processing included" Kodachrome was allowed to lapse/cancelled by the anti-trust authorities when it became moot...

Thanks Matt. I didn't realize the restriction no longer exists.

You probably have far better ways to find cites than my Google search. The latter gets me to a 1995 appellate ruling that upheld the lower court's finding in favor of Kodak, i.e. terminating the decree. Did the government take its case any higher than that?

It's surprising that, freed from the prohibition, Kodak didn't resume offering processing and film together. I certainly would have paid more for premium quality results that a manufacturer could claim when controlling all aspects of its own film process. Then again, nobody ever got rich basing marketing decisions on my consumer preferences.