8x10 on a Budget

[Alan Gales]

hello all,

one more thing to all the people who have participated in this thread, in one of longer posts above I wanted to know if anyone could tell me if setting up a Sinar P an easy exercise or would it make my family members kill me. I tried to search for youtube videos but did not get anything except for a couple of chinese (not because they were chinese) movies which were not very good. If any of you have a sonar and put up a video, I guess it would be great for all who want to know Sinar better. Or if you can provide any good links.

cheers
raffay

I own a Sinar P (4x5). It's a dream to use. It's got geared movements and is way faster to set up than any wooden field camera. I bought mine for portraiture and when it's mounted on my big A100 Ries tripod, it stays there. If I accidently bump it while posing my subject it is far less likely to move than a lighter camera/tripod set-up. All movements are straight forward with nothing fussy.

With the Sinar you also have the choice of buying a Sinar Shutter so you can use lenses in DB mounts and not have to leave the back of the camera. You can set the shutter speed from the rear of the camera and when you insert the film holder it cocks the shutter. You can also use those old brass barrel lenses which are so popular and have a built in shutter. I don't own the Sinar shutter myself but I played with one once. They are not cheap.

The weight advantage of the camera is also it's downside. You won't want to carry it too far from your automobile. It's also too bulky for backpacking although there are a few brave souls who do.



If you have your heart set on 8x10, you owe it to yourself to try it. I much prefer shooting 8x10 over 4x5 just for the experience. Just looking at that big ground glass makes it all worth while.

 

[polyglot]

hello all,

one more thing to all the people who have participated in this thread, in one of longer posts above I wanted to know if anyone could tell me if setting up a Sinar P an easy exercise or would it make my family members kill me. I tried to search for youtube videos but did not get anything except for a couple of chinese (not because they were chinese) movies which were not very good. If any of you have a sonar and put up a video, I guess it would be great for all who want to know Sinar better. Or if you can provide any good links.

cheers
raffay

A Sinar P is not slow to setup, it's just very bulky and heavy (I used to own one). I used to own one and it is excellent for very fine perspective and focus control but IMHO you don't really need that for portraits. It's mostly good for product and architecture photography where you want to have fairly extreme distortions of the image executed exactly. You do want some focus control for portraits, e.g. front swing to get both eyes focused when the subject is not looking directly at a camera, or to get two different heads in focus at different distances. That's going to be easier with a geared camera like a Sinar P, but still not particularly difficult with a basic field camera.

Regardless of your camera choice, you will need a LOT of practise in applying the movements. A practised operator can nail a tilted focus plane like that in about 30s but if you've never done it before, it could take 10 minutes; if the subject moves in that 10 minutes then you need to start again... This is why practising with a roll-film holder is good - it's about 50c per shot instead of $2 to $5.

If a Sinar P interests you, look also at the Toyo View and any number of other monorail cameras, e.g. a Calumet can often be had for under $100. The features are very similar between brands and many are cheaper than Sinar. Before you buy one, make sure that none of the gears are stripped. However a monorail is kind of the opposite extreme (heavy and bulky, very featureful, not expensive) to press (very light, minimal features, cheap) and field (light, decent balance of features, expensive) cameras.

If you don't need to go far with your camera (i.e. no more than 100m from a car or house) then a Sinar P will have no real drawbacks. I can't imagine being tied to such a small radius with my only camera though.

 

[polyglot]

Some excellent points here but why do you think X-ray film is 3-4 stops slower than HP5? Most people seem to shoot HP5 at 200 (I do, after testing) and most people seem to get about 100 out of Fuji HR-T (which I have only shot a couple exposures at 100, but not actually tested yet).

Xray film is about 50 to 100 depending on brand; the people shooting it at 100 seem to be doing so in flat light where a bit of extra development is a good thing. HP5 and TMY2 are true 400-speed films and can do 800 without any struggle. TMY2 can do 1600 in flat light and Xtol.

 

[Alan Gales]

I can't imagine being tied to such a small radius with my only camera though.

Me neither, unless you did all your work in a studio. I all ready owned a Tachihara 4x5 wooden field camera when I purchased my Sinar P.

You don't need a monorail for portraiture but they sure are nice to use.

 

[Wayne]

But if you get the best personal results shooting HP5 at 200, which many people do (although some are just blindly following the crowd rather than testing for themselves), then being a 400 speed film doesn't count for much. Its still only buying you 1 or at most 2 stops more than Xray film shot at 50-100. The effective speed of Xray film is apparently variable too, you may not get the same speed at mid-day that you will early or late.

Xray film is about 50 to 100 depending on brand; the people shooting it at 100 seem to be doing so in flat light where a bit of extra development is a good thing. HP5 and TMY2 are true 400-speed films and can do 800 without any struggle. TMY2 can do 1600 in flat light and Xtol.

 

[Raffay]

Is Sinar P heavier than P2?


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[Alan Gales]

Is Sinar P heavier than P2?


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The Sinar P2 is a little different than the Sinar P and is said to contain more plastic parts but I imagine they weigh pretty close to the same. I read where a fellow owned both and he claimed one was as good as the other. Of course the P2 is newer. The older Norma is lighter and so is the F series. F stands for field. If you want a later model that's lighter than the P2, the F2's are really nice.

Of course with the Norma and F series you don't get all the geared movements which are a luxury but you really don't need for portraiture. To be honest with you my Sinar P doesn't leave the house often and it's not my only large format camera.

 

[Raffay]

Although at the moment I mostly do portraits but I am very keen on architectural work as well. My father is an architect, although I did not become one but I have a lot of fascination for old buildings and we do have quite a few still left here in Pakistan. Checkout this flickr link http://www.flickr.com/photos/_aliraza_/3385655876/ this mosque is supposed to be the most beautiful mosque in the country, I want to capture it but before I take these journeys I want to be fully ready in terms of technique and equipment. It would be great if any of you would be interested in joining me, there are a lot of places like these here in Pakistan and I think because they are not very well maintained hence they would be more suited for B&W LF work. What do you guys think?

Raffay


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[Raffay]

Sorry, the previous flickr link had only one picture of the mosque, here is a better link http://www.mybeautifulpakistan.com/2012/07/masjid-wazir-khan.html

I think this mosque would be ideal for LF work and currently all the pictures I have seen do not do justice to this magnificent 19 century building.

I hope I make someone interested in coming down and we can do a project together

Cheers

Raffay


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[Alan Gales]

If you want to show color then shoot color. If you want to show texture then shoot B&W. If in doubt, shoot both.

The mosque looks absolutely beautiful. I wish I could photograph it. I have had my back fused together and unfortunately don't travel well. I flew to Los Vegas from St. Louis for my step son's wedding a few years ago and I thought it was going to kill me. It was rough.

It is nice of you to invite us all.

 

[k_jupiter]

I think it's a very expensive camera that doesn't do a lot, and that you would be mostly paying for the brandname not functionality. That is mostly a collectors' item not a camera for making photos with.

Really?
It IS too expensive for what it is. The rest of your statement is rubbish.

tim in san jose

 

[jp80874]

Raffay,

If you or a friend are able to build things here is another solution that is well within budget.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

John Powers