6x9 camera with Pre-Tessar lens?

[runswithsizzers]

Understood - you want something like the over-hyped "Petzval" look.
If you look at my tree example, the trunk of the tree is fairly detailed. It is just that I included so much image veiling flare in the image that there isn't much contrast.
Perhaps this is more of what you are looking for - courtesy of a 1939 vintage lens on a Zeiss Ikon 521-2:

Memorial Bench - October 2024

• MattKing
• Oct 30, 2024
• 1

A newly installed memorial bench facing toward one of my favorite sites in the North 40 Lands...

You should note, however, that the relatively limited depth of field is a major contributor to the outside of the main subject blur and character.

Yes, I like that one! However, I think I would be even happier if the effect were a little less obvious. Note taken about the wider apertures. I rarely shoot my Rolleicord at apertures less than f5.6, so that is an area I need to explore.

 

[blee1996]

I have a few 6x6/6x9 folders/tube/TLR cameras with triplet lens, and they render old school when wide open and relatively close.

 

[MattKing]

Yes, I like that one! However, I think I would be even happier if the effect were a little less obvious. Note taken about the wider apertures. I rarely shoot my Rolleicord at apertures less than f5.6, so that is an area I need to explore.

Not just wider apertures. That 105mm lens means less depth of field for the same aperture when compared with smaller formats.

 

[Stolk]

If you are open to large format, in the early 1900s, soft-focus lenses were en-vogue for that “painterly look.”

For instance, Wollensak Verito Diffused Focus Lens.

Verito | Wollensak - Apenas Imagens

Wollensak's soft focus lens, Verito has its most iconic images probably in pictures of Hollywood stars. Simple in construction and especially designed for studio portraits, it adds a halo that can go from very discreet to completely dominate the image.

apenasimagens.com

Not sure if soft focus lenses were ever made for medium format?

But it will give you that glowy, smeared-out smooth look, as if it was shot 120 years ago.

 

[abruzzi]

]Not sure if soft focus lenses were ever made for medium format?.

Pentax made a 120mm f4 soft focus for the P67:

SMC Pentax 67 / SMC Pentax-6x7 120mm F3.5 Soft Reviews - 67 Telephoto Primes - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

SMC Pentax 67 / SMC Pentax-6x7 120mm F3.5 Soft lens reviews and specifications. The SMC Pentax 67 120mm f/3.5 Soft is a manual-focus telephoto prime introduced in 1982 and produced until 1989 for the Pentax 6 7 medium format syste

www.pentaxforums.com

 

[MARTIE]

On my journey's, I came across this one, a Kershaw King Penguin Eight-20.

 

[Dan Fromm]

On my journey's, I came across this one, a Kershaw King Penguin Eight-20.

Relatively modern camera, relatively modern lens.

 

[MARTIE]

Relatively modern camera, relatively modern lens.

It's 1950's, 6x9, takes 120 film, a two element plastic lens, cheap, available. The OP will have to decide if it's relatively relevant.

Eight-20 King Penguin - Camera-wiki.org - The free camera encyclopedia

 

[runswithsizzers]

If you are open to large format, in the early 1900s, soft-focus lenses were en-vogue for that “painterly look.”

For instance, Wollensak Verito Diffused Focus Lens.

Verito | Wollensak - Apenas Imagens

Wollensak's soft focus lens, Verito has its most iconic images probably in pictures of Hollywood stars. Simple in construction and especially designed for studio portraits, it adds a halo that can go from very discreet to completely dominate the image.

apenasimagens.com

Not sure if soft focus lenses were ever made for medium format?

But it will give you that glowy, smeared-out smooth look, as if it was shot 120 years ago.

Thanks for that link. Very interesting reading! The specific design parameters that result in some lenses being "soft focus" is something I have been meaning to investigate, and that link answered many of my questions.

I have some soft focus and diffusion filters ordered for my Rolleicord, but after reading about how soft focus lenses like the Wollensak Verito/Veritar and the SOM Berthiot Eidoscope work, I suspect my add-on filters are going to produce a very different effect(?)

From your link, I went a little further down the rabbit hole and found this link, which discusses many of the early soft focus designs (in French, but my browser did an OK job with translation to English). https://www.galerie-photo.com/soft-focus-objectif-portrait-flou.html

I have looked at a few 4x5 pinhole cameras, but at this time I am not seriously considering large format -- although those big gorgeous soft focus lenses are very tempting!

 

[runswithsizzers]

On my journey's, I came across this one, a Kershaw King Penguin Eight-20.

That does look like it might be a contender.

It's 1950's, 6x9, takes 120 film, a two element plastic lens, cheap, available. The OP will have to decide if it's relatively relevant.

Eight-20 King Penguin - Camera-wiki.org - The free camera encyclopedia

Yes, maybe not exactly what I am looking for but close enough to go on my list of possibilities. However, it looks like the "available" part is a lot better for those on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean than it is on my side.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I have a few 6x6/6x9 folders/tube/TLR cameras with triplet lens, and they render old school when wide open and relatively close.

If any of those take 120 film, would you please be kind enough to provide some brands and models?

Edited to add: My first assumption would be that "6x9 folder" means the camera does take 120 film. However, I have seen several cameras that are advertised on eBay as being "6x9", but upon closer reading they appear to be designed for some kind of plates, or for 620 film.

 

[Stolk]

From your link, I went a little further down the rabbit hole and found this link, which discusses many of the early soft focus designs (in French, but my browser did an OK job with translation to English). https://www.galerie-photo.com/soft-focus-objectif-portrait-flou.html

What a great resource! Thank you for sharing that link. That author did impressive work.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I just finished the first roll of film from each of my two new lo-fi cameras -- FPP Debonaire, and Agfa Clack.

So far, my biggest irritations with using these cameras are:
- poor indication of framing in viewfinders. Both cameras take rectangular negatives, but the viewfinders are square
- no double exposure prevention
- slow shutter speeds (1/50th sec. on the Debonair is marginally OK, but 1/35-ish on the Agfa Clack is tripod territory for me)
- it is not easy to add filters to the unthreaded fronts of these simple cameras, which might be helpful for exposure control

Up until now, I have been searching for a Zeiss Ikon Box Tengor located in the USA. I love having a couple of options for aperture and focus distance, but the deal killer for me is the slow shutter speed, which I believe may be only 1/25th sec(?)

So, I am probably looking less at box cameras, and more at medium format folders, 120 film, only. And I while my original requirement was for 6x9 negatives, I am adding 6x4.5 cm as a possibility. The 6x6 cameras are OK, but only if the camera will also take 6x4.5 negatives.

Which medium format foldering camera has a less-than-fully-modern lens -- and which also has a viewfinder that is not terrible for accuracy, double exposure prevention, and shutter speeds of at least 1/60th sec (and preferably 1/100th or greater)? Or is all that too much to hope for?

 

[John Wiegerink]

I just finished the first roll of film from each of my two new lo-fi cameras -- FPP Debonaire, and Agfa Clack.

So far, my biggest irritations with using these cameras are:
- poor indication of framing in viewfinders. Both cameras take rectangular negatives, but the viewfinders are square
- no double exposure prevention
- slow shutter speeds (1/50th sec. on the Debonair is marginally OK, but 1/35-ish on the Agfa Clack is tripod territory for me)
- it is not easy to add filters to the unthreaded fronts of these simple cameras, which might be helpful for exposure control

Up until now, I have been searching for a Zeiss Ikon Box Tengor located in the USA. I love having a couple of options for aperture and focus distance, but the deal killer for me is the slow shutter speed, which I believe may be only 1/25th sec(?)

So, I am probably looking less at box cameras, and more at medium format folders, 120 film, only. And I while my original requirement was for 6x9 negatives, I am adding 6x4.5 cm as a possibility. The 6x6 cameras are OK, but only if the camera will also take 6x4.5 negatives.

Which medium format foldering camera has a less-than-fully-modern lens -- and which also has a viewfinder that is not terrible for accuracy, double exposure prevention, and shutter speeds of at least 1/60th sec (and preferably 1/100th or greater)? Or is all that too much to hope for?

Wow! You're driving a hard bargain here and it will take some searching to find one that checks all those boxes. If you have a shutter speed tester and some repair skills you can sometimes increase shutter speeds on box cameras or cheaper single-speed cameras by tensioning the simple shutter springs. There are ways around most anything today.

 

[ntenny]

Which medium format foldering camera has a less-than-fully-modern lens -- and which also has a viewfinder that is not terrible for accuracy, double exposure prevention, and shutter speeds of at least 1/60th sec (and preferably 1/100th or greater)? Or is all that too much to hope for?

Zeiss Nettar folders from about WWII onwards have double-exposure prevention, triplet lenses, and a reasonable range of shutter speeds. The viewfinders are squinty but I wouldn’t say “terrible”. (If you happen across a Nettar 516, it has a pop-up viewfinder that may be easier to use than the later optical ones built into the top deck.) The lenses may not be “bad” enough for your original goals, but the 6x9 models would be worth a try.

Double exposure prevention is kind of unusual in folders, I think, and the viewfinders are unlikely to be superb (it’s reasonable to expect a finder whose shape matches the frame, though).

-NT

 

[abruzzi]

As someone that mostly shoots view cameras except when I travel, the best double exposure prevention, is a consistent process that I always follow. So for a camera like my Konica Pearl, I always advance immediately after triggering the shutter. If I ever waited to advance I'd forget what state the camera was in and double expose. As it is, 30-40 rolls and it has never happened once.

 

[film4Me]

Which medium format foldering camera has a less-than-fully-modern lens -- and which also has a viewfinder that is not terrible for accuracy, double exposure prevention, and shutter speeds of at least 1/60th sec (and preferably 1/100th or greater)? Or is all that too much to hope for?

A bakelite Rheinmetall Perfekta - terrible lens but at least it's got double exposure prevention, about 50 speed, and three aperture settings, provision for cable release, plus 120 film. Only 6x6 though.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Wow! You're driving a hard bargain here and it will take some searching to find one that checks all those boxes. If you have a shutter speed tester and some repair skills you can sometimes increase shutter speeds on box cameras or cheaper single-speed cameras by tensioning the simple shutter springs. There are ways around most anything today.

One can dream ;-)
...but I do realize compromises are almost certain.

Zeiss Nettar folders from about WWII onwards have double-exposure prevention, triplet lenses, and a reasonable range of shutter speeds. The viewfinders are squinty but I wouldn’t say “terrible”. (If you happen across a Nettar 516, it has a pop-up viewfinder that may be easier to use than the later optical ones built into the top deck.) The lenses may not be “bad” enough for your original goals, but the 6x9 models would be worth a try.

Sounds good! I have not yet completely decided just how bad or good I want this the lens to be, so for now I am considering a fairly wide range of lenses.

the best double exposure prevention, is a consistent process

I am sure you are right about that. My entire experience with red window film winding is limited to only two rolls, so far. One roll had one accidental double exposure, and the other roll had one skipped frame, where I thought I took the snap, but apparently, I did not.

With more practice and better habits, I may decide I don't really need a camera with double exposure prevention -- we will see how it goes.

 

[John Wiegerink]

You can find cameras with double exposure prevention, but the ones that were worth the expense of adding double exposure prevention to will also usually have much better lenses than what you're looking for.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I just bought a Zeiss Nettar 517/2 which is a 6x9cm folding camera.This one comes with the 105/6.3 Novar-Anastigmat in a Vario shutter. I believe this is the most basic lens (cheapest) they offered on that model. I think it is a triplet, said to be pretty good at smaller apertures, but has more "character" wide open.

@John Wiegerink, I think you are right. Apparently the Zeiss Nettar 517/2 I bought does not have double exposure prevention, but a later model, the 518/2, did come with that feature. I could not find any of the 518/2 models for sale, but a similar model, the 518/16 (6x6 model), mostly came with faster lenses.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I just bought a Zeiss Nettar 517/2 which is a 6x9cm folding camera.This one comes with the 105/6.3 Novar-Anastigmat in a Vario shutter. I believe this is the most basic lens (cheapest) they offered on that model. I think it is a triplet, said to be pretty good at smaller apertures, but has more "character" wide open.

@John Wiegerink, I think you are right. Apparently the Zeiss Nettar 517/2 I bought does not have double exposure prevention, but a later model, the 518/2, did come with that feature. I could not find any of the 518/2 models for sale, but a similar model, the 518/16 (6x6 model), mostly came with faster lenses.

Yes, the 518/12 does have it, but the few that I've bought or traded for had the double exposure prevention gummed up and not working or working sporatical. Fairly easy repair/clean job. The Novar is a triplet and a very good one at that. Might just be to good for you even wide open. If it is to sharp wide open with no blooming or glow you can always get the proper size skylight filter and doctor the filter with a thin layer of swirly glue, strawberry jam, apricot jam etc. one of the finest color portraits of my daughter was shot with my Nikon F2AS, 105mm f2.5 AIS with a light coat of strawberry jam on a UV filter. The jam was fairly heavy toward the outer edge of the filter and very, very light in the center. I know it sounds stupid, but it really works as well as or better than petroleum jelly.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I think the Zeiss 521/2 might have double exposure prevention also and they are very good 6X9 cameras. If I wanted one I'd opt for one with a fast f3.5 Novar triplet instead of the f4.5 version for sure.

Just to add: f3.5 triplet might give you more character than the smaller aperture f6.3

 

[Arthurwg]

I have looked at a few 4x5 pinhole cameras, but at this time I am not seriously considering large format -- although those big gorgeous soft focus lenses are very tempting!

I would suggest a Zero Image 6x9 pinhole. Makes great pictures!

 

[John Wiegerink]

I would suggest a Zero Image 6x9 pinhole. Makes great pictures!

I agree, you can't get more image character than that.