6 Developers & Kentmere 200

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Andrew O'Neill

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XTol is an outstanding developer. I almost always have some mixed up in my darkroom and either use it 1+1, or take a bit from the replenishment stock...
I do employ continuous agitation, when I use BTZS tubes. Even that offers great results, especially when I dilute the stock to 1+3 or even 1+5...even it if means standing there and spinning tubes for 20 to 30 minutes!
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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Pyrocat-HD (and until recently, HDC, and XTol have been my main developers for decades. When I shot the film for this test, I completely forgot to shoot at EI 320 for XTol.
 

koraks

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Dev times determined by extrapolating and experience. Yes, densitometre was used. Dmax/min and DR written on the negatives starting at 0:33 in the video.

Thanks; I missed that. I probably also missed why the HD measurement on the Pyrocat negatives was missing. I think it's relevant to note that there are considerable differences in the total length of the tonal scale (>0.3logD between the extremes), which I think needs to be kept in mind when interpreting the results. I think differences like those in practice are pretty much inevitable if you run this kind of text, so don't take this as criticism.
 

pentaxuser

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Thanks and I understand now why you mention ID11

pentaxuser
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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Density data left out for Pyrocat, as my densitometre cannot measure the stain, sadly.
 

john_s

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Density data left out for Pyrocat, as my densitometre cannot measure the stain, sadly.

and even if it could, there would still be the somewhat unknown effect of the actual colour of that density using whatever paper you happened to be using. (VC paper in my case which has variable sensitivity to negative density of brown compared to grey).

Thanks for the tests Andrew.
 
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Here's the video I promised. Hey, I even set up my old Fujimoto enlarger and contact printed the negatives!

Tests like this are worthless unless all the negatives are developed to the same contrast level. The differences can be attributed to differences in dilution, etc.
 
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I wasn't going to try the K-pan 200, but I bought a roll with my recent B&H order, and exposed a roll (120) yesterday.
I metered for 200 ASA and bracketed half stops over, to 2 full stops over. The best negative was 1 full stop over. The film was developed with Xtol.

The results are OK, but as with the other K-pan films, I find it lacks definition/tonal separation, especially in the higher values, and suffers a serious lack of sharpness. I had to apply way more sharpening than I normally would to get the image to look decent. In general, it took much more fussing in post to get it to look okay. Take a look.

It's a pretty decent film for the price, but it's definitely not a film I would use for anything I consider "important". I'm used to TMX/TMY and the Delta films, which outperform it by a long way. (My opinion may not align with yours, and that's OK too)
 

ags2mikon

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@retina_restoration I have to agree with you. I find that TMX / TMY in D-23 1:1 out perform Kentmere by a wide margin. Of course there is a large price difference. As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. I think I will just use the rest mine for testing for light leaks and such tasks.
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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You cannot put Kentmere films in the same league as Tmax, Delta films... Regardless, the Kentmere's (especially the 400), can readily stand on their own.
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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Check for light leaks? Funny you should say that. I said the same about XRAY films, but not anymore. Unique look.
 
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You cannot put Kentmere films in the same league as Tmax, Delta films... Regardless, the Kentmere's (especially the 400), can readily stand on their own.

Oh, I agree with you, Andy — it wasn't my intention to compare K-pan with TMY/TMX or any other film. They are their own animals.
But I did want to express my findings. It can do a decent job, but it depends on what you need from your film work. For me, it was inadequate due to its lack of tonal separation and underperformance in the sharpness department. I'm used to working with the Tmax and Delta films, and so the K-pan just doesn't do what I need it to do.
It's a perfectly acceptable film for casual/student work when budget trumps other concerns. But I won't be buying it again. It's just not for me.

A second frame, post-processing. What struck me was how much more I had to finesse the image to extract some tonal definition from the image, much mores than any other film I use. But as you can see, it is possible to get a respectable image from K-pan 200.
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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Far enough... The Tmax films are stellar. I still use them (roll, and 4x5), but only sparingly (not so sparingly with the Ilford films, though) May I ask what EI you used for the Kentmere 200? I get pretty nice tonal separation at EI 125. EI 250 for the 400. I also find the 400 to deliver excellent tonal separation, and good sharpness (sharper than the 200, which I found odd).
 
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When I tested the K-pan 400 a couple years back I found it much sharper than the 200 version.
I rated the K200 at 200 and bracketed half stops up to 2 full stops over. The best negatives were 1/2 or 1 stop over. The image I just posted above was rating the film at 100 ASA.

So, about prices — the roll of Kentmere 200 cost me $7.00 at B&H, and I recently bought both TMX and TMY for $7.80 and $9.00 a roll (120) respectively. Here in the US, I can spend a mere 80 cents more and get Tmax 100, so for me there's no real motivation to work with the Kentmere films, other than testing them.
If you are in Canada or Europe, the price model will be quite different, and I expect Kodak films are significantly more costly, which might motivate folks to work with the K-pan films instead. I get that.
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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Yup. The price model is very different up here. We do not have an official distributor for Kodak films. Hence the higher price. I asked a local shop if they could bring in some TMY 120, and they told me that they get it at retail (from shops like B&H can you believe it!), then slap on their profit. I was told this a few years ago. I was just in the shop earlier in the week, and they do have some colour rolls, but the only B&W on the shelf was Tri-X 35 and 120. Heaps of Ilford, and a few other films. This probably explains why I started hoarding film about 5 years ago...and the hoarding has not stopped!
 
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Until this year, I always chose Ilford films over Kodak, simply because of the price: for the longest time, a 120 roll of Delta 100 was about $8 here, whereas Tmax 100 was about $12. This year, the prices switched, and now it's the Ilford films that are $11.50 and $12.50, where the Kodak equivalents are between $8 and $9 per roll.
I really like the Ilford Delta films, so the only reason I'm not leaning into Tmax is the price.

As for hoarding film, I no longer cache 120 film beyond what I expect to use within 2 years (basically riding the expiration date wave), because I have seen too much of the "wrapper offset" problem to ever want that experience again. If a 120 roll has been in the fridge since the day I got it, then I will sometimes let it go 6 months past its date before I use it, but I really try to avoid that.
Sheet films, on the other hand, I maintain a cache of as much as I can afford. Sheet films don't expire like 120 roll films. I've used FP4 that was 12 years past its stale date (twas a gift) and it had no issues at all, aside from a very slight increase in base fog.
 

GregY

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I never paid much attention to the price differentiation and always chose Tr-X /TMY-2/TMX.... I was buying in volume from B&H. But currently in Canada Kodak 120 is roughly $4.50 cad/$3.25 USD more expensive than the Ilford offerings. I've switched to the Delta films (& buying in Canada) and they are right up there in quality.
 

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[As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.

I've always hated that phrase. It denies the existence of bargains and good deals, or conversely, it denies the existence of overpriced crap.

Trying to stay on topic, at least where I live Kentmere films are priced cheaper than Fomapan. I have never heard anyone claim that Kentmere is technically inferior to Fomapan.
 

dcy

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What?????
 
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Andrew O'Neill

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Must be down to tariffs on Ilford films.
 
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If Kentmere (or Fomapan or Lucky, etc) represents a bargain to you, that's fine. But it is often very true that when you pay more for a certain product, you are getting a better product, hence "YGWYPF". Sometimes the cheaper product involves accepting certain compromises, and not everyone is willing to work within those parameters.

And I will say it: Kentmere 100 is inferior to Fomapan 100, based on my personal experience, yes. Fomapan 100 has better value separation, better sharpness and a better spectral response, and it also has better anti-halation properties.
 

relistan

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I like both Fomapan 100 and Kentmere Pan 100. Have shot a lot of both. But usually have gotten better results with Kentmere in the last few years. This is Fotoimpex’s relabeled Kentmere 100 and I think the tonal separation is quite good throughout. Personally. And it’s typical of my results with it. I’m not arguing with any one, just expressing my appreciation for this film.


Kentmere Pan 400:

 
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