110/16mm Camera Image Quality

Cholentpot · Jun 21, 2022

Bronson Dugnutt said:
This particular 110 film cart sets the camera to meter at 100. The +1 exposure compensation corrects for that, so it was exposed at the box speed of 50 ISO and processed normally. With a 100 and 400 speed cassette you can meter aperture priority at ISOs 25-1600 via the exposure comp dial.

Edit: Just about every description of this camera mentions it having no 'full manual' mode which is technically true I guess. It does provide a single mechanical 1/125s shutter setting, nominally for flash sync, but with the right film & filters you can still correctly expose in lots of situations even with a dead battery.

I've shot 50D at 100 with no compensation. Came out fine. Your photos look great though, far better than they should for this format.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 21, 2022

Same roll as previous -

A wide lens flare attempt & closest focus. The petals in the foreground are in contact with the front element.

Despite initial trepidations reloading 110 cassettes, if you're a fan of the format it's something I'd recommend trying if you haven't yet. Success hinges on the particular camera but it can be done. The Canon 110ED 20 has a slightly different implementation than the Minolta. It looks like the cassette bridge will require a notch to allow the shutter to cock, but there is no mechanism that disables the advance gear like in the Minolta. It has a sprocket feeler but I think this camera might work with unperfed film as long as you add the notch. The back looks like light leak city though.

Re: pushing 50D - Yep, same. ECN-2 isn't prone to color shifts within +-2 stops of box speed in my experience. You get different densities but very straightforward color grading across the entire set of frames.

Sergey Ko · Jun 22, 2022

Bronson Dugnutt said:
Minolta 110 Zoom SLR Mk II, +1 exposure comp.
Vision3 50D in a 110 cart (100 ISO), ECN-2
w/ 0.7x wide converter
Macro mode, @~35mm zoom, f4

View attachment 308628

The frame spacing was better on this roll for some reason. There was some misalignment near the end, but the first half had almost perfect registration. Expose, advance, add lens cap, shutter, advance, shutter, advance, remove cap, expose.

View attachment 308629

The converter does add a lot of utility to the wide end of the lens. When in macro mode it puts closest focus at the 25mm setting at ~1/2 inch and ~1 1/2ft at 65mm, very much compressed compared to the default configuration. It weighs about half as much as the camera body (250g vs 450g) so the balance actually isn't too bad.

Even nice Bokeh Beautiful result.
As for me -I use mostly Minox 8x11 for such a macro photos. It has a 20cm close up focusing distance & excellent measuring chain

Minox IIIs Plants #11 by Sergey Kozlov, on Flickr

xya · Jun 22, 2022

Helge said:
I have a bunch of cassettes, so no problem there.
Do you know of any good example photos?
What film do you use?
Does it take single perf?

and also @Huss:

I have photos, somewhere, not accessible. I lived in the South of France, in a Hôtel Particulier, a big building of more than 600 sqm. In Narbonne, there was a lab that could do any kind of film. They did not scan, they made prints of 10x15cm (and bigger). In 2014 I moved to the North, into a tiny house of hardly 40 sqm. This was done in a hurry. I rented a room to stock my surplus belongings, it's still full and not really accessible. I get 2 or 3 boxes out a month and there are still hundreds. Imagine the mess...

I had bought a big stock of old Minolta cassettes and reloaded the film to other cassettes. The colour film gave awful results, some b&w was better. Kodak vision3 (50D) gave good results. I will get prepared to scan some film myself in the future, the problem is the holders. That might still take some time. Fomapan R100 will be for me the film to go for. To invert scans is not a problem.

And yes, it takes single perf.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 22, 2022

Sergey Ko said:
As for me -I use mostly Minox 8x11 for such a macro photos. It has a 20cm close up focusing distance & excellent measuring chain
Minox IIIs Plants #11 by Sergey Kozlov, on Flickr

I like to use my Minolta Mg-s in a similar way. It is a fixed focus camera so you have to use accessory lenses to allow for close focus (80, 40, and 25cm options). Do you slit your own film for the Minox or have a stockpile? I use single-perf 16mm in my subminis but I've been considering buying / making a slitter so I can use some stock only available in 35mm (Kodak 2238, Ilford XP2 super, etc).

Unbeknownst to me, yesterday was apparently christened as 'International Stereoscopy Day'. I made a few stereo pairs earlier in the day... bust out your glasses! I prefer anaglyphs, but if anyone doesn't have a pair of glasses but reeeeallly want to try 3D viewing I can try uploading a side-by-side version instead.

Minolta MG-s & Vision3 250D. This is technically hyperstereo -- the separation was about 1 meter. Apologies for the hill in the foreground... try to ignore it!

xkaes · Jun 22, 2022

Bronson Dugnutt said:
The Canon 110ED 20 has a slightly different implementation than the Minolta. It looks like the cassette bridge will require a notch to allow the shutter to cock, but there is no mechanism that disables the advance gear like in the Minolta. It has a sprocket feeler but I think this camera might work with unperfed film as long as you add the notch.

Just to clarify, this is true for the Minolta 110 SLR Mark II, not the original Minolta 110 SLR. That works fine with any 16mm film of any perforation -- or unperforated. No cassette notching needed, either.

Donald Qualls · Jun 23, 2022

Bronson Dugnutt said:
if anyone doesn't have a pair of glasses but reeeeallly want to try 3D viewing I can try uploading a side-by-side version instead.

My preference is for cross-eye side by side pairs -- I can free-view those in any reasonable size (vs. wide-eye, which I can't free-view if more than 60 or so mm center to center). I always have eye muscles, I seldom have 3D glasses.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 23, 2022

Here's another pair in what I think should be cross-eye side-by-side configuration. The left eye image is on the right and vice versa. Side by side pairs are much better for color fidelity but unfortunately I'm lousy at free-viewing. Having a few pairs of cheapo red/cyan glasses and/or a couple lite owls at hand can make viewing much easier if you suffer the same handicap.

Minolta MG-s, Vision3 250D

I really should take more stereo pairs... I'm well acquainted with the technique but it always seems to slip my mind when I'm actually taking pictures. Here's a good stereoscopy lecture if anyone wants to nerd out.

Edit: 110 enlargement attempt; didn't get around to trying a 10x14mm negative this time AND I've misplaced by anti-static brush...

16mm Vision3, ECN-2; Fuji Crystal Archive RA-4
Beseler 67 janky bulb; 30mm 2.8 @f8 Minolta C.E.Rokkor-X; 50M filtration (probably needs 80M 10Y)

The final print area was about 6.5x8.5". Must try some B&W after I install a new bulb.

Donald Qualls · Jun 23, 2022

Yep, those have correct depth information (building in front of smokestack in front of trees). Once again a little (or a lot) hyperstereo, I think. That's not a problem with distant scenes (Grand Canyon, etc.), but starts to look odd with stuff inside fifty feet or so -- feels like looking at a miniature.

I love stereo pairs; we should start an image thread.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 23, 2022

Yep; both of those pairs have a baseline of about 1 meter and the (intended) subjects effectively at infinity. The miniature effect was somewhat intentional given the 'miniature' nature of the camera, but as a result both pairs have at least some portion of the foreground in front of the stereo window which is annoying. Baseline choice vs distance to elements of the composition becomes as crucial as exposure.

I'll save my stereoscopy commentary for another time but will say that these 16mm pairs give a unique rendering of the scene compared what I've done in larger formats. 3D scenes really amplify the cameras' lo-fi character.

A stereo thread would be welcome as its a generic technique applicable to just about every type of photography. Surprising there isn't one already but given that 35mmc post has zero comments, maybe not so much.

Cholentpot · Jun 23, 2022

Just got a Rollie A110 in the mail. Seems to be functioning, and some honest to goodness real 110 film for a change. I haven't had the time to develop and my rolls are stacking up. Still shooting though, anyone have a good source for flash cubes? I have three left.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 23, 2022

There's a melange of various flashbulbs on a shelf at a nearby antique mall but I've never noted their specific make. I'll take a look next time I pass through for anything useful.

Weirdly, every submini I've got (save the steky) has a pc socket or hotshoe and so haven't thought much about bulbs

Sirius Glass · Jun 23, 2022

110 cameras such as the Fisher Price one were great to slip into a parka for family skiing photographs. No focusing necessary and the photographs were sharp with great color even in bright sunlight on the snow.

Cholentpot · Jun 23, 2022

Bronson Dugnutt said:
There's a melange of various flashbulbs on a shelf at a nearby antique mall but I've never noted their specific make. I'll take a look next time I pass through for anything useful.

Weirdly, every submini I've got (save the steky) has a pc socket or hotshoe and so haven't thought much about bulbs

manual says must be electronically fired. The X cubes I have are no good.

Sergey Ko · Jun 23, 2022

Bronson Dugnutt said:
I like to use my Minolta Mg-s in a similar way. It is a fixed focus camera so you have to use accessory lenses to allow for close focus (80, 40, and 25cm options). Do you slit your own film for the Minox or have a stockpile? I use single-perf 16mm in my subminis but I've been considering buying / making a slitter so I can use some stock only available in 35mm (Kodak 2238, Ilford XP2 super, etc).

Unbeknownst to me, yesterday was apparently christened as 'International Stereoscopy Day'. I made a few stereo pairs earlier in the day... bust out your glasses! I prefer anaglyphs, but if anyone doesn't have a pair of glasses but reeeeallly want to try 3D viewing I can try uploading a side-by-side version instead.

View attachment 308689

Minolta MG-s & Vision3 250D. This is technically hyperstereo -- the separation was about 1 meter. Apologies for the hill in the foreground... try to ignore it!

I split 35mm films ADOX CMS20 (as ISO20) or Spur (as ISO 50-100)

Huss · Jun 23, 2022

The Minolta Zoom 110 Mk1 was so much cooler than the Mk2. The Mk2 just became normal looking.
I have not been able to find a working Mk1 though.

Bronson Dugnutt · Jun 23, 2022

The styling of the Mk I I see as much more vehicle-like, attempting to retain aspects of the 16mm models while massively upgrading the camera & format itself. The Mk II appears a total ergonomic redesign and is very conventional by modern standards.

The lenses on both (if the Mk II is any indication) are bananas. One must assume some of these optical designs made their way into Sony's digital mirrorless grimoire. Probably similarly for Pentax's 110 and their doomed (but excellent) Pentax Q cameras.

Huss · Jun 23, 2022

Cholentpot said:
manual says must be electronically fired. The X cubes I have are no good.

i bought from this seller. Works great

GE Flash Cubes 3 x 3 cube/ 12 guaranteed Flashes for standard Flashcube CAMS A2 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GE Flash Cubes 3 x 3 cube/ 12 guaranteed Flashes for standard Flashcube CAMS A2 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Excuse the anonymized faces to protect the innocent

Sirius Glass · Jun 23, 2022

Huss said:
i bought from this seller. Works great

GE Flash Cubes 3 x 3 cube/ 12 guaranteed Flashes for standard Flashcube CAMS A2 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GE Flash Cubes 3 x 3 cube/ 12 guaranteed Flashes for standard Flashcube CAMS A2 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Excuse the anonymized faces to protect the innocent

I am not so sure ... the faces are really washed out.

Cholentpot · Jun 24, 2022

Huss said:
i bought from this seller. Works great

GE Flash Cubes 3 x 3 cube/ 12 guaranteed Flashes for standard Flashcube CAMS A2 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GE Flash Cubes 3 x 3 cube/ 12 guaranteed Flashes for standard Flashcube CAMS A2 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Excuse the anonymized faces to protect the innocent

Thanks!

xkaes · Jun 24, 2022

I've seen flash cube to electronic flash adapters -- the bottom fits into the flash cube connection and the top has a typical flash shoe.

Donald Qualls · Jun 24, 2022

There are complete flash units like this for some 110 cameras. I have one that fits my Pocket Instamatic 60.

Huss · Jun 24, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Thanks!

You're welcome! I was surprised how well they work. Of note - prepare to be blinded when you take a pic. A lot of that light gets back to you! The cube will be hot after you take a pic. And prepare for people to be stunned that something like this exists!

xkaes · Jun 24, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
There are complete flash units like this for some 110 cameras. I have one that fits my Pocket Instamatic 60.

Thanks for mentioning that. I had forgotten about them. Those might be easier to find, but having just the flash SHOE adapter allows you to select the flash -- even one with auto-exposure.

xya · Jun 24, 2022

Let's put it on a solid basis: flashcubes are flashbulbs x4. Both are fired via electrical contacts. Class M bulbs reach their peak illumination 20 milliseconds after ignition, a leaf shutter-type camera in M flash mode would open its shutter 19 milliseconds after electrical current was applied to the bulb. Flashcubes contain M type bulbs.

So if you take the contacts designed for flash bulbs or flashcubes for an electronic X-type flash, the light from the flash would be over when the shutter opens. The resulting picture is black, I tried it.

There was a Polaroid #169 adapter that provides the necessary delay. It's hard to find and expensive. I have one https://www.instantphoto.eu/polaacc/adap_169.htm

Magicubes or X-cubes are different. They don't need a battery, there is a pin coming out of the camera that hits the cube and ingnites a piezzo-electric unit that ignites the flash. There are adapters, the most famous is the National PW 110. It is expensive. I have one https://www.instantphoto.eu/diy/big_nat.htm

There was a Rowi adapter and a Rollei A 26 adapter, I have both. And there were Kalimar flashes, a k-462 and a Strobe A for Instamatic X, that work as well. I have both either.

110/16mm Camera Image Quality

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