OP
OP
Unfortunately, you need to be part of Large Format Photo Gear B/S/T group to see the post. Piortek Kawasizoor is the seller.
Last edited:
ZoneImaging Photochemicals: A new photochemical company
-
A
- Thread starter Raghu Kuvempunagar
- Start date
Recent Classifieds
-
For Sale Mamiya 7 - 210mm lens + finder
- Started by Guivd
-
For Sale Nikon Nikkor-SW 75mm 1:4.5 Lens in Copal 0 Shutter
- Started by michaeljoeserra
-
For Sale Schneider Kreuznach Makro Symmar HM 5.6/120 in Copal No. 0 Shutter
- Started by michaeljoeserra
-
Want to Buy Graflex RB 4x5 (Auto or Tele) with longer bellows extension
- Started by blee1996
Forum statistics
Unfortunately, you need to be part of Large Format Photo Gear B/S/T group to see the post. Piortek Kawasizoor is the seller.
Neither formula seems to have started out with much knowledge about phenidone's properties.
There's a good chance that effectively all the pyrogallol (apart from forming a dye from its oxidation product) is doing is providing a flow of electrons to the phenidone. And raising the amount of Phenidone probably brings it into a better proportion range for that to occur.
Within the published industry-standard text for scientists and engineers you can find ratios for useful P:Q relationships for Phenidone and its derivatives - and why Dimezone-S has preferable characteristics. I don't think any of Gainer, DeFehr, Lane or Hartung were/ are aware of it. Pyrocat has a better chance of working more of the time because it effectively substitutes off of D-76's developing ingredient relationships.
Zone Imagingis a scam.
Unfortunately hat's a false comparison, Rodinal is not going to give particularly fine grain with conventional emulsions like Double-X, however that changes if you use T-grain and similar emulsions like Tmax or Delta 100 where Rodinal gives exceptionally fine grain, which is essentially inherent in the emulsion itself.
And yes there are others selling 510 Pyro in the UK and Europe, there was a UK seller on eBay until quite recently.
But Jemzyboxz's website lists some of his Zone Imaging Lab’s high end clients which include an IFORD MASTER printer, and a number of others, but they all do their own film processing. Giving them some 510 Pyro to try dos not make them clients of his Lab. A telephone call to one yesterday confirmed he wasn't a client and had only been sent 510 Pyro for free to try.
The reviews of 510 Pyro on a supplier's website are quite clearly written by James Lane/Jemzyboz. This all raises issues of the trustworthiness and integrity of Zone Imaging Lab, and particularly the participation in this thread of James Lane posing as a client under the pseudonym Jemzyboz.
Ian
Unfortunately hat's a false comparison, Rodinal is not going to give particularly fine grain with conventional emulsions like Double-X, however that changes if you use T-grain and similar emulsions like Tmax or Delta 100 where Rodinal gives exceptionally fine grain, which is essentially inherent in the emulsion itself.
And yes there are others selling 510 Pyro in the UK and Europe, there was a UK seller on eBay until quite recently.
But Jemzyboxz's website lists some of his Zone Imaging Lab’s high end clients which include an IFORD MASTER printer, and a number of others, but they all do their own film processing. Giving them some 510 Pyro to try dos not make them clients of his Lab. A telephone call to one yesterday confirmed he wasn't a client and had only been sent 510 Pyro for free to try.
The reviews of 510 Pyro on a supplier's website are quite clearly written by James Lane/Jemzyboz. This all raises issues of the trustworthiness and integrity of Zone Imaging Lab, and particularly the participation in this thread of James Lane posing as a client under the pseudonym Jemzyboz.
Ian
OP
OP
The recent coverage on 510-Pyro in Petapixel and elsewhere has borrowed a lot of text from Zone Imaging site. Just an observation.
It's not a review, it's an advertorial. It's also false to claim it's a new developer, it goes back to at least 2006. OK it's been tweaked more recently.
One factor not considered anywhere is the cost, which is £25 to £26 for 100mm. Now compare that to Tanol which is near/identical to Pyrocat HD which UK suppliers sell for less.
An example is one supplier sells 100ml for £12.99 or £28.50 for 250mm (that's 100 or 250 each of Part A & Part B) That makes 510 Pyro significantly more expensive.
I priced up mixing 510 Pyro from scratch and came up with a cost of £15.80 per litre that's 31.58 per 100ml but if mixing on a commercial scale that would drop buying the Pyrogallol in larger quantities.
The only honest reviews I've seen, & would trust, of 510 Pyro stated it gave slightly finer grain compared to Pyrocat HD but noticeable less apparent sharpness. With that in mind my experience of using Pyrocat HD for around 17 years is grain and sharpness is on a par with Replenished Xtol. But choice of film makes a difference as well.
Ian
One factor not considered anywhere is the cost, which is £25 to £26 for 100mm. Now compare that to Tanol which is near/identical to Pyrocat HD which UK suppliers sell for less.
An example is one supplier sells 100ml for £12.99 or £28.50 for 250mm (that's 100 or 250 each of Part A & Part B) That makes 510 Pyro significantly more expensive.
I priced up mixing 510 Pyro from scratch and came up with a cost of £15.80 per litre that's 31.58 per 100ml but if mixing on a commercial scale that would drop buying the Pyrogallol in larger quantities.
The only honest reviews I've seen, & would trust, of 510 Pyro stated it gave slightly finer grain compared to Pyrocat HD but noticeable less apparent sharpness. With that in mind my experience of using Pyrocat HD for around 17 years is grain and sharpness is on a par with Replenished Xtol. But choice of film makes a difference as well.
Ian
Last edited:
OP
OP
The seller from Poland, Piortek Kawasizoor, quoted this price for 510-Pyro in his Facebook post in the Large Format Photo Gear B/S/T group about a week ago:
18euro per 100ml+ shipping costs.
I would sort of like to hear the scientific basis for James Lane's claim that the special way he mixes up 510 Pyro results in longer shelf life.
There is no special way of mixing it, he watched Jay De Fehr's video on Youtube linked to earlier, he's all hyperbole.
Ian
Ian
OP
OP
Zone Imaging might have done accelerated failure tests with 510-Pyro mixed in the new way and came to a conclusion that shelf-life is longer. The supposed new way of mixing is new after all and there is no other way of estimating the shelf-life of brew that has been mixed very recently.
The shelf life has nothing to do with the way of mixing, it's purely because there's no water present to absorb oxygen allowing the Pyrogallol to oxidise.
Ian
Ian
OP
OP
They might have used less heat and compensated it with extended stirring to get the developing agents dissolve in TEA. Less heat means less chances of chemicals losing potency during mixing and hence extended shelf-life.
Raghu, ask James Lane about this specific conjecture of yours in # 213 or any other of your "he might have" statements about what ZoneImaging has done to Pyro that makes it different in any way to Jay's 510. Then let us know his specific answers please
Thanks
pentaxuser
Thanks
pentaxuser
OP
OP
No, I have no intention of doing this. As I said several posts earlier I have already seen and heard enough to make me believe that ZoneImaging simply produces Jay de Fehr's product. Good luck to ZoneImaging for producing it for those who desire it and are willing to pay the price but that's where it ends for me
As it was you who has come up with suggestions about what James might have done to improve 510 then I simply thought that it made sense for you to get confirmation that James has done what you think he may have done to improve on 510
Otherwise this thread can go on for as long as anyone questions whether these improvements are there and you make counter suggestions why James either has or might have done something to justify his claims
pentaxuser
The only issue to me is the Zone Imaging 510 Pyro is very considerably darker than the 510 Pyro in Jay De Fehr's Youtube video, and that seems to indicate some oxidation of the Pyrogallol, which can cause uneven random staining. I wouldn't risk my films using Jemzyboz's concoctions.
Neither would I trust a lab run by such an inexperienced darkroom worker, like James Lane. And as for the BS about his improved Colour processing, it's all here in posts between him and PE - Ron Mowrey.
Ian
OP
OP
Hello @pentaxuser, as you are probably aware, photrio provides you an option to unwatch a thread. If the conversation between @Ian Grant and me is of not of interest to you as you seem to indicate above, you should consider using that feature. There is also an ignore list that can help you reduce your burden. Best wishes.
I am not clear why you should think that the conversation between Ian Grant and yourself as it concerns the authenticity of ZoneImaging's claims should not be of interest to me or anyone else in getting to the truth about said Zone Imaging claims
My reply to you in the form of a suggestion that you might want to ask ZoneImaging about its claims was simply the product of your suggestion that ZoneImaging might have done various things to its 510 Pyro that made it different from Jay de Fehr's. The logical extension of your suggestions would seem to be a attempt to gain confirmation of what you think ZoneImaging might have done to improve 510
pentaxuser
My reply to you in the form of a suggestion that you might want to ask ZoneImaging about its claims was simply the product of your suggestion that ZoneImaging might have done various things to its 510 Pyro that made it different from Jay de Fehr's. The logical extension of your suggestions would seem to be a attempt to gain confirmation of what you think ZoneImaging might have done to improve 510
pentaxuser
I think it says all I need to know about this company.
Aren't there any serious alternatives if you want to buy pre-mixed pyro in Europe?
I know Moersch sells Pyro 48 and several other staining developers, also found at Fotoimpex, Retrocamera etc.
And Bergger they sell Bergger PMK.
And Bellini sells Pyrogallol if you want to mix yourself.
Are there others?
I think it says all I need to know about this company.
Aren't there any serious alternatives if you want to buy pre-mixed pyro in Europe?
I know Moersch sells Pyro 48 and several other staining developers, also found at Fotoimpex, Retrocamera etc.
And Bergger they sell Bergger PMK.
And Bellini sells Pyrogallol if you want to mix yourself.
Are there others?
The only stockists of 510 Pyro in the U.K. I can find are: Firstcall and Silverprint. Both sell Zone Imagining's 510 Pyro which has on its label "de Fehr's" Both are prices at £26 exactly. You can get it from Zone Imaging direct at £25.50 so 50p cheaper. This is the 100ml bottle
So in the U.K. Zone Imaging would seem to have the monopoly
I couldn't find any European( as in within Europe but outside of the U.K. ) stockists of what is defehr's 510 Pyro but assuming that Moersch's Pyro 48 is exactly the same or as near to the same as to make no difference then Moersch sells it at the equivalent of £16.25 for the 100ml bottle or slightly cheaper proportionally speaking for the 250ml container
So yes if you are in Europe and Pyro 48 is the same then it is considerably cheaper. If you are U.K. based it appears that Moersch will still sell it to you but I have no idea how much this changes the final price as a result of the U.K. brexit
I'd be surprised if it raises the price to the equivalent of Zone Imaging's price given the £9+ margin in Moersch's favour for the 100ml bottle and even greater margin if you buy 250ml
pentaxuser
OP
OP
Grain would also vary somewhat depending on the grade of TEA used I guess. In an old post by Jay he talks about DEA potentially contributing to fine grain:
"TEA imparts more than just pH to the developer. One of the impurities in commercial grade TEA is DEA, which is a silver solvent, and might contribute to the very fine grain produced by 510-Pyro, one of the characteristics that makes this developer so unique among pyro developers."
Another characteristic feature would be that you can't take any claims from the producer at face value.
Jemzyboz/Lane is now claiming this about 510 Pyro:
Summary:
Ian
Summary:
- the concentrate is not toxic enough to be classified as toxic so the toxic symbol has been removed
- the concentrate is not environmentally hazardous at all (it was always our belief but now have the proof!) so the environmental hazard symbol has been removed
- the working solution is considered, from a legal standpoint, harmless (but this does not mean you shouldn't wear protection!)
- no transport regulations are needed
Ian
Wow. Or maybe it's the claim that it contains pyrogallol that is false? Hard to know with this company.
Anyway, I would treat it as an unknown, potentially toxic substance if someone forced me to use it. But I feel sorry for all buyers that trusts the marketing and believe that they are handling something relatively benign like say XT3 / Xtol.
Anyway, I would treat it as an unknown, potentially toxic substance if someone forced me to use it. But I feel sorry for all buyers that trusts the marketing and believe that they are handling something relatively benign like say XT3 / Xtol.
| Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links. To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here. |
PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:  |