Young enthusiast looking for a digital back for my Hasselblad 500 C

[12557]

I’m searching for a digital back for my beloved Hasselblad 500 C (V-System).

I’m especially interested in older CCD backs from Phase One, Hasselblad CFV, Leaf, Kodak, Imacon, or similar models with that beautiful classic CCD look.



Best regards
Matthias


Ah question is here in the Forum a place to sell and buy?

Moderator Note: Post edited to remove references to Want to Buy request.

 

[Don_ih]

is here in the Forum a place to sell and buy?

Sure. Subscribe and you can post this "want to buy" thread in the Classifieds. I would expect this thread will be deleted since you're not allowed to post a "want to buy" or "want to sell" thread (or comment) in any section other than the Classifieds and only if you're a subscriber.

 

[Alexander6x6]

I would recommend you to look for a Jenaoptik Eyelike M22 (22 Mpx multishot) and Macbook Pro mid 2010 with Snow Leopard. Pay attention that the back should be supplied together with cables (firewire cable as well) and Eyelike software on a CD.
There was such a back on Kleinanzeigen de for about 400 Euro.

 

[12557]

Hey thank you, no i don't want to be tethered, the back should hav CD Slot.

I can't find the buy and sell category

 

[itsdoable]

There is a CF39 MS on that auction site right now that is as good a price as you'll get, based in Italy. It's the multi-shot version (you'll need to tether it to use that function) but it'll work fine as a regular back.

The CF39 is the predecessor to the CFV39. I have the non-MS version,

It comes with an extra RZ67 plate, if you don't want that, I'll buy it off you so you can reduce the cost.

 

[12557]

Omg Perfect!!! It is working on CF Cards right? On which auction site is it?

 

[BrianShaw]

Omg Perfect!!! It is working on CF Cards right? On which auction site is it?

Pardon Our Interruption...

I've been watching it too but Italy is too far away for me. Plus, it might not be fully operational...

 

[12557]

Yessss saw that, i am from Germany so shipment is no problem but:

error when you torn the back on (invalid calibration)

I have that one on my List:

Phase One p25+ H101 - 123459 kliks | eBay.de

Entdecke Phase One p25+ H101 - 123459 kliks in groÃer Auswahl â Vergleichen Angebote und Preise â Online kaufen bei eBay.de â Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

Luckily, before my photography study, I studied mechanical engineering too, and I have a lathe, drill press, milling machine—everything in my dads workshop.

This offer is really good. I’m wondering if it would be possible to mount an adapter plate from an analog magazine onto it. Basically, the whole thing seems to be only screwed together; only the height would need to be precision-ground very accurately. That would not be a problem for me either.

I’m just wondering whether it actually works. What do you think, anybody did this?

 

[itsdoable]

Yessss saw that, i am from Germany so shipment is no problem but:

error when you torn the back on (invalid calibration)

Re: CF39

The calibration issue is software, it needs to be connected to a computer and a calibration image taken and stored. I have a P25 that needs a calibration (slight magenta cast on one side), but I have not done it as finding old working hardware (Firewire400) and software to do this can be challenging (but I'm working on it!). In the mean time, I have a LCC applied automatically in Rawtherapee. As the seller says, it works fine with that warning.

The back was available with various plates that allowed you to connect it to different cameras, this one has the Hasselblad V and Mamiya RZ (like I said before, I'm interested in the RZ plate). It was made by Imacon around the time Hasselblad bought the company.

The Multishot is a studio feature, results in very nice files, but requires tethering to hard to obtain old hardware.

On a large format back, you can use the Hasselblad plate, and a Hasselblad to 4x5 adapter (I might have an extra one of those). You need 2 cable releases, one on the back to wake it up, one on the lens to expose.

The Hasselblad H P25 you listed can do that too, but it will not fit your Hasselblad V bodies, only the "H".

The CF39 uses CompatFlash cards.

The Kodak sensor is pretty nice, it was one of the last CCDs that was good for long exposure night and astro shots.

I'm in Canada, and have no issues with the extra shipping costs from Europe or Asia. You being in Europe makes this a nice option as you won't get additional VAT costs (I think!)...

 

[12557]

Thank you for all the information. It actually sounds quite good, but the fact that calibration is so difficult makes me a little worried. And for that, it feels too expensive if I can get a Phase One P25 for the same price. What speaks against the P25 if I find one with a V-mount?

 

[Alexander6x6]

The Multishot is a studio feature, results in very nice files, but requires tethering to hard to obtain old hardware.

As far as I know the multishot can be done only with the motorised Hasselblads. The motorised Hasselblads are quite cheap to try it out. I bought a fully functional EL/M for 180 Euro.

 

[Alexander6x6]

I was looking for Phase One P65+ for Hasselblad V (6x4,5 60.48MP 8984 x 6732 CCD sensor with 16-bit color depth), but this is extremely rare. Unfortunately, Phase One does not offer a conversion service for Mamiya 645 digital backs to Hasselblad V.

 

[itsdoable]

Thank you for all the information. It actually sounds quite good, but the fact that calibration is so difficult makes me a little worried. And for that, it feels too expensive if I can get a Phase One P25 for the same price. What speaks against the P25 if I find one with a V-mount?

The P25 for Hasselblad V works well, I like that it's fanless. But it will probably cost more - V Backs go for about 2X the H backs. If you were just using it on a view camera, the H-Backs makes more $ense.

Just for reference, the Phase One backs use a Canon battery, the Imacon/Hasselblad backs use a Sony battery. both are easily available.

 

[itsdoable]

I was looking for Phase One P65+ for Hasselblad V (6x4,5 60.48MP 8984 x 6732 CCD sensor with 16-bit color depth), but this is extremely rare. Unfortunately, Phase One does not offer a conversion service for Mamiya 645 digital backs to Hasselblad V.

Yea, me too, there's one on that auction site, but it's a little $$ for me.

Or an IQ180!

 

[MattKing]

Sure. Subscribe and you can post this "want to buy" thread in the Classifieds. I would expect this thread will be deleted since you're not allowed to post a "want to buy" or "want to sell" thread (or comment) in any section other than the Classifieds and only if you're a subscriber.

Moderator Note: Exactly right @Don_ih !

@12557 - Click on the Support Us! link nearer the top of the page for details about becoming a paid Subscriber.

 

[itsdoable]

Moderator Note: Exactly right @Don_ih !

@12557 - Click on the Support Us! link nearer the top of the page for details about becoming a paid Subscriber.

The title is "looking for" rather than "WTB", subtle difference, but one should be able to ask recommendations on what is a good digital back. But then again, this is an analogue forum...

 

[MattKing]

The title is "looking for" rather than "WTB", subtle difference, but one should be able to ask recommendations on what is a good digital back. But then again, this is an analogue forum...

Agreed - and I have used moderator tools and edited the posts now to leave in the requests for advice, and remove the offers to purchase.
But thanks for the reminder about which sub-forum this should be in - moved accordingly to the miscellaneous hybrid discussions part.

 

[Don_ih]

The title is "looking for" rather than "WTB", subtle difference

When I responded, the request was a bit different from what it is now.

 

[12557]

I don’t quite understand — I want to use it on a Hasselblad 500C, not on a view camera. I just can’t stop thinking that the flange should be convertible to Hasselblad V. In the end, the backs, the sensor, and everything else are identical, aren’t they?

The one on the netherlandic website would be perfect for me, perfect price.

 

[MattKing]

I don’t quite understand — I want to use it on a Hasselblad 500C, not on a view camera. I just can’t stop thinking that the flange should be convertible to Hasselblad V. In the end, the backs, the sensor, and everything else are identical, aren’t they?

The one on the netherlandic website would be perfect for me, perfect price.

The back itself doesn't use a lot of film ....... and when it is installed, the camera doesn't either.
As a result we have moved it to a sub-forum that is suited to equipment which does both - items related to obtaining both analogue images and purely digital images.
The original medium format sub-forum location relates to purely analogue equipment and materials.
Things that straddle the analogue/digital divide are always a bit of a challenge in a site like this that sorts things by process.

 

[itsdoable]

I don’t quite understand — I want to use it on a Hasselblad 500C, not on a view camera. I just can’t stop thinking that the flange should be convertible to Hasselblad V. In the end, the backs, the sensor, and everything else are identical, aren’t they?

The one on the netherlandic website would be perfect for me, perfect price.

There are some distance differences from a Hasselblad V, which has a mechanical interlock interface with it's back, to that of a Hasselblad H, which has an electronic interface (although the H1 did have mechanical interlocks too)

Early CCD backs need 2 signals, a wake-up to make the CCD ready (needs a few 100 milliseconds) and a pre-trigger to start the exposure (about 30 milliseconds). They have also been designed such that an X-sync with a leaf shutter is enough to trigger the exposure, because all the pixels are under exposure when the x-sync is triggered.

The Hasselblad V backs use the darkslide interlock pin to wake up the back. The X or FP sync then triggers the exposure. These backs can be modified such that the wake-up signal also starts the exposure for a fixed time. Thus when you push the shutter button in, the back is woke, starts exposure, when then the shutter opens and closes, records the image on the sensor. If you are too slow, then the sensor turns off before the exposure is finished, or started. Modified backs allow you to shoot digital backs on a Hasselblad V without any cords. Which has it's advantages.

On a Hasselblad H back, the wakeup and pre-trigger are all done via the electronic interface. The flange back distance is also different. The modifications would include adding the mechanical wake-up switch and wiring it into the back such that the software can recognize it. If you can do that, please PLEASE let us know how it can be done

You can manually wake up the back and trigger it, which is how they use these on view cameras.

Later backs (like the P65) don't need a wakeup signal. So you can machine a new flange to fit a V body and just have a sync cable, but these backs are still quite expensive.

If you machine a new flange for the P25 H-back that you linked earlier, you would still need to give the back a wakeup signal before you can capture an image. An extra button or cable release, and you have to take the picture immediately after the wakeup.

 

[BobDavid]

There is a CF39 MS on that auction site right now that is as good a price as you'll get, based in Italy. It's the multi-shot version (you'll need to tether it to use that function) but it'll work fine as a regular back.

The CF39 is the predecessor to the CFV39. I have the non-MS version,

It comes with an extra RZ67 plate, if you don't want that, I'll buy it off you so you can reduce the cost.

The CF39 MS is a wonderful back. I used one for fine art reproduction in the 2000s. You will need to get the V-plate and a wake-up cable that I believe connects to the x sync on the cf lenses. I recall that the only way you can engage the MS function is to shoot in "pinhole" mode.

 

[12557]

@itsdoable thank you very much for these detailed explanations!!!!

This is exactly the point where I need help, because I have never had a digital back in my hands and never worked with one.
Let me try to summarize it for myself: the V-backs seem to have a small pin or switch on the adapter plate that is triggered mechanically by the Hasselblad V System camera when taking a picture, so the back wakes up and reacts.

But do I still need a cable connected to the shutter of the CF lens on a V-back? Is that the small connector on the lens?
And what exactly are X-sync and FP-sync and where are they located? The FP on the tiny plug on my lens used for flash light? I think I need a more concrete explanation here—maybe even with a few photos.

thank you again! so cool!

 

[12557]

One more question that is still on my mind: I think I’ve more or less settled on the Phase One P25 because it seems to offer the best price-to-performance ratio for me.

Is it dependent on old software that may no longer work on modern computers, or on things like FireWire? Or can it still be updated, maintained, and used properly with modern software on current machines?

That is really important to me—I don’t want to be locked into an outdated system and trapped in old hardware and software.

 

[itsdoable]

@itsdoable <snip>...
Let me try to summarize it for myself: the V-backs seem to have a small pin or switch on the adapter plate that is triggered mechanically by the Hasselblad V System camera when taking a picture, so the back wakes up and reacts.

Yes

But do I still need a cable connected to the shutter of the CF lens on a V-back? Is that the small connector on the lens?
And what exactly are X-sync and FP-sync and where are they located? The FP on the tiny plug on my lens used for flash light? I think I need a more concrete explanation here—maybe even with a few photos.

Yes, you still need a sync cable to the lens shutter.

X-sync closes when the shutter is completely open. Thus leaf shutters work at all shutter speeds because it always fully opens, where as focal plane shutters only are fully open at the X-sync speed and slower. X-sync is for electronic flash.

FP-sync (or M-sync for leaf shutters) are for flash bulbs, which need to be triggered before the shutter opens, as the flash bulbs take some time to light. Because Digital shutters need a sync signal before the shutter starts to open, the FP sync works on all focal plane shutters. Old Hasselblad C lenses had a switch for X-M sync on the lens, either works.

The confusing thing is that, if the entire sensor is under exposure when the digital sensor receives the trigger sync, the image is correctly recorded. This means the sensor is not being a trigger before the shutter opens, just when it's fully open. This is by design, so all modern X-sync'ed lenses work (since modern shutters don't have and FP or M sync). This is also why these backs only work at the X-sync speed of 1/90 and slower on the 2000 series Hasselblad with focal plane shutters (unless you modify them). On these cameras, you need to trigger the sensor before the shutter starts to open to get a proper image if you want focal plane shutter speeds faster than 1/90 sec.

There's more things to consider, as some backs don't need a wake-up, and some may need the latency setting changed. These will all be in the manual for the selected back.

One more question that is still on my mind: I think I’ve more or less settled on the Phase One P25 because it seems to offer the best price-to-performance ratio for me.

Is it dependent on old software that may no longer work on modern computers, or on things like FireWire? Or can it still be updated, maintained, and used properly with modern software on current machines?

That is really important to me—I don’t want to be locked into an outdated system and trapped in old hardware and software.

The P25 is a nice back. With a V body and back, you need a sync cable to the lens shutter, a CF card, and a working battery, and you can capture an image. The calibration doesn't even need to be current.

Firewire is for tethering, if you want that, you'll have to find compatible hardware. I have yet to tether mine (I'm planning to use the Firewire, a linux box and some 3rd party software from another user to update the calibration - some day).

The image files may need to have the file extensions re-named to be read by current raw processors (I think I rename them as .IIQ for the current Rawtherapee, I use to have to rename them .TIF for the older version of the software). I have that all scripted when I download the files, so it's transparent to me.

Make no mistake, these are "outdated systems", but you can still use them on current computers. In North America, Capture Integration keeps some old hardware to calibrate and update these backs, you should be able to find someone in Europe (ie: like Phase One?) to do that. I like doing it myself, as that is part of the "fun".

You have access to a machine shop - I'm jealous! When I had access, I modified a lot of stuff. I'd probably try modifying a H or Mamiya back for Hasselblad V today...