Yet Another Fuji RA-4 Paper Thread

[CB_]

I've done plenty of general searching around the forum as well as the Fuji Paper Master Thread, yet for some reason there is still a dearth of information. I'm going to outline some questions I have, and hopefully we can continue to flesh out a knowledge base for these papers.

1. What exactly is type CN, and where does it stand compared to DPII and Maxima? I've seen CN referred to on this forum as the US version of DPII, and also as a continuation of the old Super C, which I've never printed on. I'd love to know more about this paper and how it stacks up. I have a line on purchasing some, but I've yet to see any examples printed on it that I'm aware of. It's certainly much cheaper than DPII, which is what I normally print on.

2. What in the heck is DPII pearl? Is it DPII or is it Pearl? I thought these were mutually exclusive, but I came across this that is supposedly 'Glossy' and 'Pearl'. I want the glossy, but I don't want the pearl...

3. Does anyone have any images they can share that were printed on Fujiflex? I'm having a hard time tracking examples and I'm extremely curious how it presents.

 

[MattKing]

Thread title made more specific.
Good luck!

 

[koraks]

1. What exactly is type CN, and where does it stand compared to DPII and Maxima?

You'll have to ask Fuji US. I never received straight answers on what Type CN, Type P, Type PDN and Type CA are in today's market. Well, for one of them I did, and I think I posted it here, but can't find the reference at the moment.

a continuation of the old Super C

I don't think there's any direct continuation of any of the previously US-made papers. However, I suspect that the EU-made papers are so similar that it's darn difficult to tell them apart anyway. AFAIK the for the US market some of the papers known by other names are labeled differently for US consumption. This is likely to suggest some kind of continuity in brand names/product types for US customers.

What in the heck is DPII pearl? Is it DPII or is it Pearl?

IDK, but it wouldn't surprise me if DPII glossy and Pearl are technically the same paper with one notable difference: the 'Pearl' paper has a sort of opalescent/glittery shine to it. Its whites aren't really white, but kind of silvery. I suppose it has some kind of finely dispersed glittery particle stuff embedded in the protective topcoat, but that's just a guess on my behalf. In the sample kit I have, Pearl and DPII are both listed as 'Professional' papers.
Btw, this particular question should be answerable by contacting Fuji through this page: https://www.originalphotopaper.com/en/contact/

This snap gives a bit of an impression of the Pearl finish; it's kind of silvery if you look closely, much like metallic paint on a car. It's not exactly a 'finish' in the same sense as Silk, Matte etc. since it's evidently not made by a patterned calendering roll that impresses a texture onto the paper surface. The pearl thing must actually be embedded in the gelatin emulsion itself.

3. Does anyone have any images they can share that were printed on Fujiflex? I'm having a hard time tracking examples and I'm extremely curious how it presents.

Nope, not here, but if you've ever seen Cibachromes - it looks fairly close to that in terms of surface. It's very 'plasticky' (after all, that's what it is), and super glossy. It kinks very easily, so handle with care, especially larger prints.

 

[CB_]

You'll have to ask Fuji US. I never received straight answers on what Type CN, Type P, Type PDN and Type CA are in today's market. Well, for one of them I did, and I think I posted it here, but can't find the reference at the moment.



I don't think there's any direct continuation of any of the previously US-made papers. However, I suspect that the EU-made papers are so similar that it's darn difficult to tell them apart anyway. AFAIK the for the US market some of the papers known by other names are labeled differently for US consumption. This is likely to suggest some kind of continuity in brand names/product types for US customers.



IDK, but it wouldn't surprise me if DPII glossy and Pearl are technically the same paper with one notable difference: the 'Pearl' paper has a sort of opalescent/glittery shine to it. Its whites aren't really white, but kind of silvery. I suppose it has some kind of finely dispersed glittery particle stuff embedded in the protective topcoat, but that's just a guess on my behalf. In the sample kit I have, Pearl and DPII are both listed as 'Professional' papers.
Btw, this particular question should be answerable by contacting Fuji through this page: https://www.originalphotopaper.com/en/contact/

View attachment 386993
This snap gives a bit of an impression of the Pearl finish; it's kind of silvery if you look closely, much like metallic paint on a car. It's not exactly a 'finish' in the same sense as Silk, Matte etc. since it's evidently not made by a patterned calendering roll that impresses a texture onto the paper surface. The pearl thing must actually be embedded in the gelatin emulsion itself.



Nope, not here, but if you've ever seen Cibachromes - it looks fairly close to that in terms of surface. It's very 'plasticky' (after all, that's what it is), and super glossy. It kinks very easily, so handle with care, especially larger prints.

Got it. Looks like I'll be firing off an email to Fuji..

 

[DREW WILEY]

Good luck sorting it all out in terms of matching how actual US distributors variously list these respective products at the moment.

Plain CA seems to be rolls of the same thin medium as cut sheet CAii. But if it's fully described as Super C Type II instead, that's the apparent successor of the previous Super C lineup. PDN appears to correspond to "metallic"Pearl surface, new style, but is confusing due to resembling the former P designation of "Portrait" papers, so you better ask specific questions first. What might or might not correspond to Euro CDii is also confusing, to say the least. Fujiflex Supergloss is never ambiguous - the current ii version. And there is still some Fujitrans out there, likewise impossible to mistake for anything else.

Given my own disappointing past experiences with Fuji USA Customer Service reps, I'd seek a second opinion from someone higher up even after you potentially get an answer. Sad to say, I've also gotten completely incorrect guess replies from certain distributor personnel as well. It can take some patience to sort things out.

 

[nb1457]

I might have some answers which can hopefully be of use — I just received and cut down a roll of Super Type CN matte and have made about 20 prints so far. I normally print on DPII which I've gotten in cut sheet format from Rapid Eye in the UK. I've also read from a few people that CN was the same or similar to DPII but marketed for the US... they are definitely not the same paper and there are some differences. I'd say anecdotally that CN is a step up in quality from normal Crystal Archive but a notch down from DPII.

CN is a bit thinner and flimsier, the filtration is pretty similar but CN seems to be slightly on the cooler side. The matte CN has a different surface compared to matte DPII, the CN almost feels like lustre and there is a discernible tactile feel to it compared to the smooth surface of DPII. This is an issue for me because I scan my prints with a flatbed and while DPII scans perfectly fine, the matte CN is giving me the common white spot issue (tons of white spots that look like dust, but are actually texture), which I've tried to fix in post but it's hard to correct and impossible to get rid of. That being said, the paper itself seems to be pretty decent with deep blacks and the tonality renders pretty well, not dissimilar to DPII. I haven't tried the glossy CN and I'm sure that would be just fine as a substitute for glossy DPII.

Like everybody I'm pretty confused by how Fuji markets this stuff, especially with the differences on either side of the Atlantic. I can't seem to find anybody in North America who stocks or orders normal DPII, I've reached out to a few distributors in Europe who apparently can't ship Fuji paper rolls over here. I may have a lead on getting a roll from the UK so I'll probably either do that or try to get some glossy CN. I know there are a few different papers you can buy in the US like Type PDN or Type C/CA, but I'm assuming they're in the same ilk as CN in terms of quality. I know it can be a crapshoot to try to get answers from Fuji directly, probably even more so for me (being in Canada) but I'll try anyways.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The more intriguing question whether Super C II is the same as Euro DP II or not. Here "CN" is distinctly a lower price point offering, and allegedly the roll equivalent of CA II cut sheet. Super C II is definitely not that - the spec sheet and pricing makes the difference quite apparent. The same distribution houses sell all the above, plus more options; so there are real distinctions. Here "DP II" is touted as just a Pearl surface paper, further confusing things. So no; they're NOT in the same ilk.

I'll like to experiment with Super C II glossy sometime soon, preferably in a 30 in wide roll, and before the risk of any tariffs showing up; but hard to say.

 

[koraks]

I'd say anecdotally that CN is a step up in quality from normal Crystal Archive but a notch down from DPII.

Thanks for sharing this; it seems likely that CN is something like the Crystal Archive Supreme or Supreme HD that's sold here.

 

[DREW WILEY]

"CA" is being marketed here in roll widths from 4 inch to 20 inch wide, so it's obviously a photofinisher oriented material. Whether it's the same as Supreme or intended to replace Supreme, I cannot say; but the two are being sold in parallel at the moment.

Mere "CA", even "ii" is also clearly distinct from what is being marketed by the same distributors as "CA, Super C Type II", which is a superior commercial product available only in wide rolls from 20 inch up to 50 inch width. CA stated generically just means any Fuji Crystal Archive paper of any type unless further defined. But they also use CA per se to indicate the thinner product, including the cut sheet version of CA ii.

Part of the problem is that different distributors might use slightly different designations.

 

[51g1l0]

I might have some answers which can hopefully be of use — I just received and cut down a roll of Super Type CN matte and have made about 20 prints so far. I normally print on DPII which I've gotten in cut sheet format from Rapid Eye in the UK. I've also read from a few people that CN was the same or similar to DPII but marketed for the US... they are definitely not the same paper and there are some differences. I'd say anecdotally that CN is a step up in quality from normal Crystal Archive but a notch down from DPII.

CN is a bit thinner and flimsier, the filtration is pretty similar but CN seems to be slightly on the cooler side. The matte CN has a different surface compared to matte DPII, the CN almost feels like lustre and there is a discernible tactile feel to it compared to the smooth surface of DPII. This is an issue for me because I scan my prints with a flatbed and while DPII scans perfectly fine, the matte CN is giving me the common white spot issue (tons of white spots that look like dust, but are actually texture), which I've tried to fix in post but it's hard to correct and impossible to get rid of. That being said, the paper itself seems to be pretty decent with deep blacks and the tonality renders pretty well, not dissimilar to DPII. I haven't tried the glossy CN and I'm sure that would be just fine as a substitute for glossy DPII.

Like everybody I'm pretty confused by how Fuji markets this stuff, especially with the differences on either side of the Atlantic. I can't seem to find anybody in North America who stocks or orders normal DPII, I've reached out to a few distributors in Europe who apparently can't ship Fuji paper rolls over here. I may have a lead on getting a roll from the UK so I'll probably either do that or try to get some glossy CN. I know there are a few different papers you can buy in the US like Type PDN or Type C/CA, but I'm assuming they're in the same ilk as CN in terms of quality. I know it can be a crapshoot to try to get answers from Fuji directly, probably even more so for me (being in Canada) but I'll try anyways.

Hey did you have any luck so far? I was only able to find DPII in Lustre. I am also hunting for something like DPII matte.

 

[ac123]

Reviving this thread real quick..

I managed to speak to someone in the paper dpt at Fuji this week after trying to place an order for some Maxima roll paper from B&H and having them let me know that it's on backorder:

As of this date, Maxima paper is out of stock at fuji, the rep said it was not yet discontinued, but that they are out of it.

He also told me that what's being sold in the US as "CN" Paper is currently in stock, and it's essentially the same emulsion as DPII, having a higher range of whites and blacks than standard CA.

"Supreme" is the same emulsion as standard CA paper, but with a thicker backing.


I also inquired about other paper stocks eventually being sold in cut sheets, and he let me know that the CA cut sheets of 16x20 and 18x24 have recently been discontinued... seeing that they are still in stock from certain distributors at the moment, but when they're out that's the end of it.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I think I'd want a second opinion, or a "wait and see" stance. Fuji US customer service can be frustrating, especially given all the different marketing labels for possibly similar items. If "CN" is the same thing as DP II, then what is Super C "N" - the same thing too? B&H uses one abbreviated description, Unique another, and the main distributor, Imaging Spectrum, indicates Super C "new style" as its broadest selection (clear up to 50 inch roll width). I wonder if Maxima will be available in the US before my own coffin is being sized. Last time I asked, nobody even knew what it was, and I went through hell just trying to get my inquiries answered. I'd like to test it.

I have a lot of experience with the previous versions of Super C, and they've been excellent products. When I want to go "hyper", I use Fujiflex Supergloss instead - a remarkable product, but over the top for some images. When I want to go "tame" instead, ordinary CA cut sheet does just fine, unless fine distinctions in similar hues need to be achieved, when it can be somewhat disappointing. Still, way better than what the labs are doing with Supreme on automated devices.

 

[koraks]

As of this date, Maxima paper is out of stock at fuji, the rep said it was not yet discontinued, but that they are out of it.

Maxima is being produced in a bit of a piecemeal fashion. Demand for it lags strongly behind what Fuji had hoped when they introduced it.

it's essentially the same emulsion as DPII

This doesn't say much. All Fuji color papers are the same 'emulsion' as such. The differences are in the base they're coated on and the coating configuration, in particular the thickness of the different emulsion layers.

 

[Samu]

Maxima is being produced in a bit of a piecemeal fashion. Demand for it lags strongly behind what Fuji had hoped when they introduced it.

It is in a way a vicious circle. Labs don´t order t, because its availability is patchy, and because the demand is low, the supply is bad. It is so much easier to byy DPII, which is always available

 

[DREW WILEY]

It might also be possible that the risk is higher coating Maxima, due to its greater complexity. If a batch is off, it's a more expensive loss. Dunno.

 

[koraks]

It might also be possible that the risk is higher coating Maxima, due to its greater complexity. If a batch is off, it's a more expensive loss. Dunno.

It's not more complex to coat than the other papers. There's just not a lot of demand.

It is in a way a vicious circle. Labs don´t order t, because its availability is patchy, and because the demand is low, the supply is bad. It is so much easier to byy DPII, which is always available

The customers who really have an impact don't really order what happens to be available. The product just hasn't convinced as many end users as F had hoped. And yes, the difference with DPII is quite small at least from a lab's perspective. Maxima is supposed to appeal to an audience that I'm afraid just isn't shopping in this market to begin with.