Wondering about challenges of a darkroom in an outbuilding with poor climate control

[mshchem]

I don't know if this would help but I use an old camper as my darkroom. I was able to buy it for a very low price because it had some structural issues caused by a roof leak. It isn't perfect but I have done some work to fix the roof and the floor. I wouldn't trust it to drag it very far down the road any longer but as a small external darkroom I have learned to work with it. I fill gallon jugs of water and bring them in and dispose of waste rinse water into my flower garden using a couple of plastic 5 gallon pails. Waste developing fluids are taken to our local waste facility and disposed of at their waste water facility. The fresh water that is stored is kept in the old tub/shower so even if a bottle freezes and splits it isn't a big issue. When it is really cold outdoors I fill a couple of gallon jugs in the sink indoors and bring them out as needed. The camper does have a propane forced air heater and a small electric cooler, both of which can be started at need and run while I am working. It does have an exhaust fan over the cook stove. It is plugged in to the house electric main via a heavy duty extension cord. My son is an electrician and was able to ensure that my electrical service for exterior use is adequate for the darkroom needs. My biggest problem was adequately covering windows and roof vents in the small back portion to set up a dark area for printing. Light is harder to keep out than you think.

This sounds great! Good use of the wash water!!!

 

[snusmumriken]

I'm in the UK, which may not be all that relevant, but I agree with others that heavy insulation is the key.

I built my darkroom shed with 2 inches of insulation in the walls, floor and ceiling, plus an inner lining of that silver bubble foil insulation for good measure. I then wrapped the whole thing with semi-permeable roof membrane and battens before wood cladding (so there is also an insulating air gap). I leave an electric oil heater in the darkroom on its lowest "frost" setting, and the door remains shut if not in use.

The shed is now more than 10 years old. Its temperature changes only very slowly, and stays within an acceptable range year-round. I turn the heat up for work sessions during the colder months. In hot summer periods the temperature inside is pleasantly cool. I've not had any issues with chemicals or other materials spoiling.

I was anxious about mould or damp in such a well-sealed shed, so I installed fans for both inward and outward airflow. The outward-blowing fan switches on automatically if internal humidity reaches a certain level. This all seems to do the trick.

 

[Ian Grant]

My darkroom is in a 12" x 13" stone and breeze block shed with a pitched roof at the end of my garden, electrics had already been installed.. As above insulation is the key. the floor was sealed with polythene sheet, then 2" expanded polystyrene sheets, and then flooring grade chipboard. The walls were battened , again lined with polystyrene sheets, then plaster board.

I had to cut away sand re=arrange 3 of the roofing joists to allow full head height of my De Vere 5108. The ceiling area is well insulated. I've also insulated the door.

During the winter I use a small heater to keep the darkroom at a minimum of around 10ºC, as long as I don't leave the door open on hot summers days it remains reasonably cool.

Ian

 

[loccdor]

I don't know if this would help but I use an old camper as my darkroom. I was able to buy it for a very low price because it had some structural issues caused by a roof leak. It isn't perfect but I have done some work to fix the roof and the floor. I wouldn't trust it to drag it very far down the road any longer but as a small external darkroom I have learned to work with it.

I like that. I have an ancient Chevy Suburban and when it stops being useful as a daily driver I can imagine repurposing it for extra storage.

 

[loccdor]

I built my darkroom shed with 2 inches of insulation in the walls, floor and ceiling, plus an inner lining of that silver bubble foil insulation for good measure. I then wrapped the whole thing with semi-permeable roof membrane and battens before wood cladding (so there is also an insulating air gap). I leave an electric oil heater in the darkroom on its lowest "frost" setting, and the door remains shut if not in use.

My darkroom is in a 12" x 13" stone and breeze block shed with a pitched roof at the end of my garden, electrics had already been installed.. As above insulation is the key. the floor was sealed with polythene sheet, then 2" expanded polystyrene sheets, and then flooring grade chipboard. The walls were battened , again lined with polystyrene sheets, then plaster board.

I love seeing and hearing about these darkrooms. Insulation is sounding more and more like an essential idea. I'm glad other people have tread this ground before with success

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Here in Iowa City (apx. 200 miles west of Chicago), it's just too darn cold in the winter. Make up air for ventilation comes in well below 0°C. I have a beautiful fume removal system in my darkroom but I really need incoming outside air, doesn't even need to be in the darkroom.

But again, when the weather is like this I just don't make a stink, and my darkroom is pretty huge.

I lived in Michigan and Minnesota and know what you're talking about; moved to Florida eventually to get away from the cold.

 

[MTGseattle]

Just to forewarn you, insulation(fiberglass) has become really expensive and slightly scarce in certain sizes. For R15 designed for 2x4 walls, Rockwool is now cheaper than fiberglass out here. It was the inverse situation pre-covid. There's a company called Rmax that makes polyiso foam panels. they look like they are coated with tinfoil. Those are not cheap etiher, but give you a pretty good R/inch rating and are relatively easy to work with and easy to transport due to light weight. They are sold in 4x8 foot panels, so bear that in mind when going to the materials store.

One old-school passive vent option is the turbine style roof vent. You may be able to salvage one.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1207611181/circular-metal-spinning-barn-roof-wind?gpla=1&gao=1&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_ps--home_and_living-power_seller&utm_custom1=_k_0d70c4ca2136183ea36fa2e3043ba63a_k_&utm_content=bing_412385671_1298523531504915_81157784660933_pla-4584757335754326%3Apla-4584757335754326_c__1207611181&utm_custom2=412385671&msclkid=0d70c4ca2136183ea36fa2e3043ba63a&dd_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2F

 

[Kino]

Don't forget about the potential of used solar panels and a few surplus marine grade batteries.

Not that I have any personal experience with the matter, but I have seen several garden sheds powered thusly on various YouTube channels.

If the space is small enough, maybe you could supply enough climate control to make it bearable year round...

 

[mshchem]

Maybe you go to the bank and then build a new 3 bedroom brick home, convert your current house into a really amazing darkroom with a coffee/juice bar

 

[Craig]

Insulation and also draft control are important to retaining heat. I recently built a garage and used spray foam over traditional fibreglass insulation and the difference in air infiltration is significant. The spray foam really seals up the gaps that previously allowed air to flow through the walls.

Naturally, the foam is expensive, but you can do something with house wrap and careful attention to details to reduce air infiltration at a lower cost.

 

[Neal]

My darkroom is my garage, but it is attached. I built a cabinet for the enlarger to keep things clean. Over the years film developing tends to happen more quickly in cool weather when it is easier to heat a tempering bath, although I do use ice on occasion and simply wait until the bath hits the appropriate temperature. Winter printing is very possible with a "pig blanket", but I find my desire to print is often insufficient to overcome my desire to be warm.

Good luck!

 

[Bill Burk]

My darkroom is in my garage. I live in a nice climate where summer and fall temperatures are about 20 degrees C, so I just use it that time of year.

 

[mshchem]

My darkroom is my garage, but it is attached. I built a cabinet for the enlarger to keep things clean. Over the years film developing tends to happen more quickly in cool weather when it is easier to heat a tempering bath, although I do use ice on occasion and simply wait until the bath hits the appropriate temperature. Winter printing is very possible with a "pig blanket", but I find my desire to print is often insufficient to overcome my desire to be warm.

Good luck! View attachment 368978

That's a great cabinet. Reminds me of something from Pop Photo from the good old days. I have my father's old darkroom box, he built it from a plan in the 40's, has 4 shelves for each contrast grade, and a place to store a tank and a couple bottles.

 

[MTGseattle]

@mshchem wins the thread with the build a new house and covert the old suggestion.

The trailer converted to darkroom idea has some merit. My mental wheels are turning now. Except that like in my basement, I see headroom being a potential problem.

I have a Kaiser darkroom cabinet pamphlet around here someplace.

 

[Paul Howell]

@mshchem wins the thread with the build a new house and covert the old suggestion.

The trailer converted to darkroom idea has some merit. My mental wheels are turning now. Except that like in my basement, I see headroom being a potential problem.

I have a Kaiser darkroom cabinet pamphlet around here someplace.

My friend's father was a machinist, he was able to convert a Besler 23c to an horizontal, as I recall somewhat clumsy but usable.

 

[laser]

Remember that temperature is related to mass. Having a large water bath (reservoir) at near the correct temperature will help in keeping the photo chemicals are the desired temperature. There are many devices that can heat and cool water.

 

[cliveh]

Could you not build a small brick built room?

 

[mshchem]

Could you not build a small brick built room?

Earth shelter, sod hut. Of course if there's bedrock 24 inches below the surface you might need TNT .

All this discussion makes me want to build an outbuilding

 

[eli griggs]

Instead of tnt for bed rock, power jack a grid of holes into the 'floor of the bedrock, and during freezing weather take well soaked wood stakes, close to maximum hole dimensions, pound them in with a sledge and pout a floor pool of one - three inches, letting it all freeze hard.

If you've found a good engineering placement grid plan for your type stone, the freezing and un-freezing cycles should break up the floor for relatively easy removal/leveling or concrete flooring.

Cheers

 

[mshchem]

Instead of tnt for bed rock, power jack a grid of holes into the 'floor of the bedrock, and during freezing weather take well soaked wood stakes, close to maximum hole dimensions, pound them in with a sledge and pout a floor pool of one - three inches, letting it all freeze hard.

If you've found a good engineering placement grid plan for your type stone, the freezing and un-freezing cycles should break up the floor for relatively easy removal/leveling or concrete flooring.

Cheers

I had a groundhog that excavated a half a cubic meter of crushed rock from next to the foundation of my house. I relocated the little ( 10-12 lbs) devil to a verdant meadow a few miles away.
If only I could have trained it

Good recommendations on the cryo-fracturing, works for the planet.

 

[mshchem]

From SUNY ,

"Large woodchucks are approximately 60 cm (24 in) in length, and weigh 13-33 kg (6-12 lb), the heavier weight typical of individuals entering hibernation."

Americans need to learn SI units, desperately. Personally I'm not going to try and live trap any 33 kg rodent

 

[railwayman2]

Perhaps i'm being lazy, but I really wouldn't want to spend a lot of time or money trying to build a darkroom unless it could give a comfortable environment to work in for extended period. No point in being uncomfortable for any pastime if it's only a hobby ?

 

[BobUK]

My unheated garden shed is a workshop.
Downside of such a situation is humidity, and condensation.

The bare metal on my engineering lathe is kept painted in oil from Autumn till Spring to prevent rust.
If I heat the place up in Winter condensation forms on the lathe chuck and slides. The drilling table and any other sort of cold metal.
Even if the heating is left off, the flourescent lights take the chill off the space enough to be comfortable, but again the condensation forms.

It would definitely require constant gentle heating throughout the Winter season to be useful. But I am too tight to go down that route.

Condensation and humidity are big concerns.

 

[eli griggs]

Perhaps i'm being lazy, but I really wouldn't want to spend a lot of time or money trying to build a darkroom unless it could give a comfortable environment to work in for extended period. No point in being uncomfortable for any pastime if it's only a hobby ?

So, take a page from the Alaska natives and hunters and build a an emergency shed/housing unit, one big main room, a studio and for bunks, sleeping bags, Japanese Tami mats, whatever, and a wet darkroom, all of it heated and cooled, with running water and a second power supply away from your main.

if your house burns down, you don't have to abandon the property and your darkroom is workable all year long.

Use the passive insulation of the no longer green hay bales, I mentioned earlier, tightly packed, they are fire resistant, basically fireproof and bug free.

Windsor Castle's walls in the Gallery, was packed with this type insulation and, IIRC, was partly responsible for the great fire, being less severe than it was.

Done correctly, you'll be building an above ground cave, with windows, and you'll find the energy going into heating and cooling the place, without other passive systems, will be quite low, possible low enough for you to recoup a fair bit of the initial construction costs over the passing of a few years, depending on how much work you do yourself, especially if you can lay in the straw balls and insolated above ground floor insolation and the attic work and then install interior wall, floor and attic walking panels, if you want to use the attic for another space.

Anyone can paint, so have a pizza and wings party and get it done one weekend.

Have fun!

l

 

[snusmumriken]

I'm in the UK, which may not be all that relevant, but I agree with others that heavy insulation is the key.

I built my darkroom shed with 2 inches of insulation in the walls, floor and ceiling, plus an inner lining of that silver bubble foil insulation for good measure. I then wrapped the whole thing with semi-permeable roof membrane and battens before wood cladding (so there is also an insulating air gap). I leave an electric oil heater in the darkroom on its lowest "frost" setting, and the door remains shut if not in use.

The shed is now more than 10 years old. Its temperature changes only very slowly, and stays within an acceptable range year-round. I turn the heat up for work sessions during the colder months. In hot summer periods the temperature inside is pleasantly cool. I've not had any issues with chemicals or other materials spoiling.

I was anxious about mould or damp in such a well-sealed shed, so I installed fans for both inward and outward airflow. The outward-blowing fan switches on automatically if internal humidity reaches a certain level. This all seems to do the trick.

Just found a photo of me insulating the floor of my darkroom shed, in case this helps.