Windows 10 support is over. Likely switching to a version of Linux

[bernard_L]

My main machine is a desktop running Win 10 on an Intel Core i5-3550 (introduced 2012, end of support 2019.) I'm reluctant to be led by Microsoft down the path of software upgrades that require hardware purchases. That machine serves my needs adequately —email, browsing, simple image editing, scanning with V700, etc. Additionally, to support my Coolscan LS-2000 and the SCSI interface, I have Win7 as dual-boot.

I'm considering to run Ubuntu for daily, outside-facing tasks. There are, however, a few pieces of software that I've become used to and that, as such, do not have a Linux version: FastStone, HandBrake, and a handful of utilities. For these I'd have some Windows (10? 7?) running in a VirtualBox VM with no Internet connection.

Comments? Caveats?

 

[afriman]

There are, however, a few pieces of software that I've become used to and that, as such, do not have a Linux version: FastStone, HandBrake, and a handful of utilities.

Comments? Caveats?

HandBrake is available for Linux: https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/1.9.0/get-handbrake/where-to-get-handbrake.html

 

[koraks]

My main machine is a desktop running Win 10 on an Intel Core i5-3550 (introduced 2012, end of support 2019.)

Similar hardware here, running Windows 11. I have no TPM2.0 etc. You can work around it.

to support my Coolscan LS-2000 and the SCSI interface, I have Win7 as dual-boot.

Generally if it works on 7 it'll work on 10/11.

 

[Cholentpot]

The only issue on Linux is the limited available software, other than that it is a superior system. Just be aware you might run into problems of getting 100% compatible drivers for gpu and cpu.

I run both windows and linux on my pc, both are on separate drives and I switch between them via boot options from biox. I am stuck with windows for editing both photos (PS) and videos (Resolve).

But linux is pretty much immortal and even if you delete a part of the system accidentally you can still fix it. So if you use gimp and darktable only, go ahead. If your concern is security linux makes sense also, since.. not many people use it = not many hackers targeting it

In my opinion make your own system, if you look at 7 years old hardware it will be almost as fast as the new stuff, but for bargain price. The reason why new hardware isnt much faster is moores law, which we have hit a couple of years ago.

I have 12 core threadripper 1920x on x399 taichi motherboard, 128gb ram and some fancy new nvidia gpu I forgot the name of. But you should get new power source unit of at least 1kw, I would never buy old PSU. Works great, except the cpu isnt supported for windows 11. I dont think I will ever need another computer honestly, at least not because it isnt fast enough. This system was a complete overkill back then and it still is. I use the full power only when rendering videos, or rendering some 3d graphics. And I have never reached the 128gb ram in normal use, just in some programming tasks

I personally hate laptops, because of poor cooling and once one component dies you can pretty much throw out the whole thing.

Laptops have a 2-3 year life span for me. I don't like them but they have their uses.

The workarounds are quite straightforward, really. There's a few available and there are clear instructions in many places online. It's a fuss-free process that involves basically one step that you do before the upgrade and after that, the upgrade proceeds as if you have the required hardware.

I've never warmed up to Linux and god knows I've tried for years. I've told that story often enough; to each their own. Ultimately I wanted a fuss-free, productive desktop environment and Linux didn't give me that, so after years of trying to love it, I backed out of it. I do run it on some servers.

I've tried and tried over and over to do the Linux thing, just never meshed. So I'm stuck in a Windows rut since 1993.

Thanks, I will check that. Until the time my PCs ran Win7, I knew all kinds of hardware and software stuff. But after I upgraded to Win10, I didn't need to re-install any time and have forgotten almost everything. Touch wood!

I installed Linux Mint on an old laptop a few years ago, but the geeky repair stuff put me off. I have a Mac Mini for my Sinar back that I use regularly, but am still not comfortable with it.

Kumar

Windows 7 was really good.

 

[Michael Howard]

My home setup has been 100% Microsoft free for a few years now, so I no longer miss it at all. I haven't yet found anything that I can't get working on Linux so last year I removed my Windows 10 dual boot on my main. I will warn, though, you will need to educate yourself on some things, it's not a totally pain free experience dealing with games and other programs that are WIndows only.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The only issue on Linux is the limited available software, other than that it is a superior system. Just be aware you might run into problems of getting 100% compatible drivers for gpu and cpu.

I run both windows and linux on my pc, both are on separate drives and I switch between them via boot options from biox. I am stuck with windows for editing both photos (PS) and videos (Resolve).

But linux is pretty much immortal and even if you delete a part of the system accidentally you can still fix it. So if you use gimp and darktable only, go ahead. If your concern is security linux makes sense also, since.. not many people use it = not many hackers targeting it

In my opinion make your own system, if you look at 7 years old hardware it will be almost as fast as the new stuff, but for bargain price. The reason why new hardware isnt much faster is moores law, which we have hit a couple of years ago.

I have 12 core threadripper 1920x on x399 taichi motherboard, 128gb ram and some fancy new nvidia gpu I forgot the name of. But you should get new power source unit of at least 1kw, I would never buy old PSU. Works great, except the cpu isnt supported for windows 11. I dont think I will ever need another computer honestly, at least not because it isnt fast enough. This system was a complete overkill back then and it still is. I use the full power only when rendering videos, or rendering some 3d graphics. And I have never reached the 128gb ram in normal use, just in some programming tasks

I personally hate laptops, because of poor cooling and once one component dies you can pretty much throw out the whole thing.

I;ve run Lightroom and Premiere Elements rendering video and didn't get up to 16gb, maybe 12gb max, although I have 32gb memory. My processor is:
2.50 gigahertz Intel 11th Gen Core i9-11900
640 kilobyte primary memory cache
4 megabyte secondary memory cache
16 megabyte tertiary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (8 total)
Hyper-threaded (16 total)

 

[Kino]

My main machine is a desktop running Win 10 on an Intel Core i5-3550 (introduced 2012, end of support 2019.) I'm reluctant to be led by Microsoft down the path of software upgrades that require hardware purchases. That machine serves my needs adequately —email, browsing, simple image editing, scanning with V700, etc. Additionally, to support my Coolscan LS-2000 and the SCSI interface, I have Win7 as dual-boot.

I'm considering to run Ubuntu for daily, outside-facing tasks. There are, however, a few pieces of software that I've become used to and that, as such, do not have a Linux version: FastStone, HandBrake, and a handful of utilities. For these I'd have some Windows (10? 7?) running in a VirtualBox VM with no Internet connection.

Comments? Caveats?

Handbrake? The Video conversion program? There is a Linux version: https://handbrake.fr/

Curious to know; what can FastStone do that VLC cannot? What is your specific application for the software?

As to a virtual machine, consider that VM Ware Fusion and Workstation Professional are now free to use, if you have any issues with VirtualBox.

Older SCSI interfaces can be tricky under ANY operating system, for sure.

 

[loccdor]

Tons of helpful information. Great thread.

 

[Disappointed_Horse]

I have no idea why someone who has perfectly capable hardware and was locked out of security upgrades by Microsoft would want to buy newer hardware which will surely suffer the same fate in time.

I have been running Linux for about a year now and have been very happy with it. After my ancient 2014 MacBook Air stopped receiving updates, I installed elementary os. It runs MUCH faster and better with elementary than it did with recent versions of macOS. Elementary is brilliant—it's like macOS when it was actually good (OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard).

Contrast my two-year-old work laptop, a much more powerful Lenovo Thninkpad T14, which has been reduced to a painfully slow and unreliable disaster by Win 11. If my employer makes me use Win 11 to earn my paycheck, I'll deal with it, but on my personal machine, no way. Linux is the way to go.

 

[MattKing]

I can understand why Microsoft wants to push people toward more of the hardware reliant security tools, because security issues probably absorb more of their efforts than anything else.
Seeing just a tiny portion of what Sean goes through here in the backrooms of Photrio just dealing with some of the issues relating to security and other computer geekdom - on a site with very up-to-date and powerful software - makes it clear to me that it is an ongoing war, where the battles are like a video game!

 

[koraks]

Yes, sure, I can see it from that angle, too. At the same time I also agree with the criticism of forcefully making hardware obsolescent by means of this software upgrade. I think there are economic, ethical and environmental problems with that decision.

 

[Kino]

I can understand why Microsoft wants to push people toward more of the hardware reliant security tools, because security issues probably absorb more of their efforts than anything else.
Seeing just a tiny portion of what Sean goes through here in the backrooms of Photrio just dealing with some of the issues relating to security and other computer geekdom - on a site with very up-to-date and powerful software - makes it clear to me that it is an ongoing war, where the battles are like a video game!

IMHO, it's more of a move to lock the user into an ecosystem in which MS has the exclusive right to profile and harvest personal data to sell to multiple outlets, but this is moving into Soapbox territory rather than addressing the OP's question, so I will end my screed here.

 

[koraks]

it's more of a move to lock the user into an ecosystem in which MS has the exclusive right to profile

Sorry, I don't see that, at least not any more than any of the major players in software have been trying to do since the 1990s. Enforcing presence of TPM2.0 for instance doesn't do anything for the kind of scheme you mention. That's not to say that MS isn't trying to create some form of lock-in. As said, they've been doing that for ages, like many, many companies.

 

[Kino]

Sorry, I don't see that, at least not any more than any of the major players in software have been trying to do since the 1990s. Enforcing presence of TPM2.0 for instance doesn't do anything for the kind of scheme you mention. That's not to say that MS isn't trying to create some form of lock-in. As said, they've been doing that for ages, like many, many companies.

Every tried installing an dual boot, alternative OS with a TPM chip and Secure Boot?

Windows 11 Recall and Copilot (by default turned on) actively harvest user data, the use of which is opaque to the user.

The requirement to obsolete still perfectly usable hardware rests exclusively on the need for more power to run both the Recall and AI features of Windows 11.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree; back to the topic at hand...

 

[loccdor]

Right now I'm leaning toward Mint being the best all-around solution.

This video will no doubt come in handy.

 

[Korbel]

With the windows privacy concerns.. you can make your own bootable disk drive, where you delete the stuff you dont want. Also if you get some 3rd party firewall you can isolate the system from internet. But it has been a long time since I have done it, I dont remember the details now, I have just firewalled adobe now

With the security concerns.. I think it is just fear marketing. "Your system is at risk, because you dont use our top spying device we have just made"

 

[Kino]

Right now I'm leaning toward Mint being the best all-around solution.

This video will no doubt come in handy.

I use Mint and it's just fine. No OS is perfect, but it is a great way to start and should you find it restrictive after becoming comfortable with the general operating principals, you can branch out to more powerful, specialized versions of Linux (also harder to set up/maintain).

Mint is derived from the Debian/Ubuntu family; has good bones and has probably the largest user base, thus easier to find solutions to problems specific to various hardware issues.

 

[Korbel]

Right now I'm leaning toward Mint being the best all-around solution.

I dont think there will be that many games for linux. The selection will be very limited and you should check first.
Havent seen the whole video though.

Also remember with downloaded games, like from steam, you dont own anything, only the right to play it. You cant sell it once you dont want them, like you would sell a game on a physical drive. And once steam goes bankrupt, you loose the investment.

 

[4season]

My main machine is a desktop running Win 10 on an Intel Core i5-3550 (introduced 2012, end of support 2019.) I'm reluctant to be led by Microsoft down the path of software upgrades that require hardware purchases. That machine serves my needs adequately —email, browsing, simple image editing, scanning with V700, etc. Additionally, to support my Coolscan LS-2000 and the SCSI interface, I have Win7 as dual-boot.

I'm considering to run Ubuntu for daily, outside-facing tasks. There are, however, a few pieces of software that I've become used to and that, as such, do not have a Linux version: FastStone, HandBrake, and a handful of utilities. For these I'd have some Windows (10? 7?) running in a VirtualBox VM with no Internet connection.

Comments? Caveats?

Sure, if your VM performance is adequate. Ideally, I'd want a solution which makes it easy to migrate those virtual machines to newer hardware as needed. As you'd be building those for specific applications, the individual VMs can be pretty minimal.

 

[loccdor]

I dont think there will be that many games for linux. The selection will be very limited and you should check first.
Havent seen the whole video though.

Also remember with downloaded games, like from steam, you dont own anything, only the right to play it. You cant sell it once you dont want them, like you would sell a game on a physical drive. And once steam goes bankrupt, you loose the investment.

I'm not a huge gamer anymore, I mostly play older games and those seem to have pretty good support.

DOS games can be run via DOSBox emulator, this emulator can also run early OSes like Windows 3.1. E.g. Doom, Civilization 2, etc.

SNES games can be run via an emulator like ZSNES.

Final Fantasy VII can run via Steam with Proton.

Cities: Skylines has native Linux support. That's probably the most recent title I ever spend much time on.

Even EverQuest via Project1999 is reportedly runnable. People also have a guide for running Deus Ex.

Yes, you can tell I am a 90s kid

 

[4season]

For running older games, I am amazed by Batocera, which can simply be run off a bootable USB stick (may need to enable "Legacy Boot" in your PC BIOS).

 

[bernard_L]

HandBrake is available for Linux: https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/1.9.0/get-handbrake/where-to-get-handbrake.html

Handbrake? The Video conversion program? There is a Linux version: https://handbrake.fr/

My mistake, I thought it was Mac + Win only.

Generally if it works on 7 it'll work on 10/11.

My interface is an Adaptec AVA 2904. Possibly the issue is not 10 vs 7, but 64-bit versus 32-bit. Anyway, under Win 10 64-bit, the interface is listed as SCSI of unknown type by the peripheral manager; under Win 7 (32?) it runs OK. As long as the LS-2000 works, I'll have a machine to run it.

Curious to know; what can FastStone do that VLC cannot? What is your specific application for the software?

FastStone is for image browser and simple editing (crop, heal blemishes, USM, white/black point, curves); it covers 98%-ish of my editing needs;
VLC is completely different: audio and video player, and much more to be found by digging a little.

As to a virtual machine, consider that VM Ware Fusion and Workstation Professional are now free to use, if you have any issues with VirtualBox.

Thank you for the info, I'll have a look. VirtualBox has worked for me so far; on the laptop (Win10) I have VMs for Win7, XP, and 2K, just to run specific legacy software for which I don't want the cost and bloat of "updates".

Tons of helpful information. Great thread.

+1

 

[loccdor]

For running older games, I am amazed by Batocera, which can simply be run off a bootable USB stick (may need to enable "Legacy Boot" in your PC BIOS).

Quite awesome! Hadn't heard of it.

 

[koraks]

My interface is an Adaptec AVA 2904. Possibly the issue is not 10 vs 7, but 64-bit versus 32-bit. Anyway, under Win 10 64-bit, the interface is listed as SCSI of unknown type by the peripheral manager; under Win 7 (32?) it runs OK.

Yeah, this might be a challenge. If you feel like toying with it one day, maybe this could work: https://www.colorperfect.com/Vuesca...A-2940-etc/driver-for-64-Bit-Windows-7-and-8/ Taking SCSI into the modern age is a challenge.

Every tried installing an dual boot, alternative OS with a TPM chip and Secure Boot?

The problem (which can be dealt with in numerous ways) has more to do with UEFI than with TPM, I think. UEFI has been around for years. The emergence of UEFI had entirely plausible/realistic roots in developments in the malware arena around that time.

The requirement to obsolete still perfectly usable hardware rests exclusively on the need for more power to run both the Recall and AI features of Windows 11.

The 'obsolete' hardware is perfectly usable under Win11 even with Ai shizzle enabled. I'm posting from a geriatric 2nd hand HP desktop that way. It doesn't make much of a difference vs. Win10 which I ran before. Which isn't too surprising, since it's to a large extent the same platform anyway. The AI craze reminds me a bit of the browser wars, with a more prominent infrastructural component added to it. Sure, everyone and their mother are after 'your data', and companies have been trying to lock people in just about forever. There's not all that much new under the sun.