Will a #0 Compur shutter fit a Koni-Omega 58? Where to harvest a shutter?

[grain elevator]

Hi all,
I have finally pulled the trigger on a Koni-Omega Hexanon 58 for a project. I'll report back with details on the project when/if I have something to show. Right now I'm asking for confirmation that a #0 Synchro Compur, being probably the most common reasonably modern shutter cheaply available on ebay in Europe, would fit it. And: What crappy or broken cameras should I look for to find one cheaply? Do Kodak Retinas have #0 or #00 shutter or does it vary by model?
P.S. no worries, the lens will suffer no irreversible harm and I'll keep the original shutter of course.

 

[OAPOli]

The 58mm Hexanon fits in #0 shutter just fine.

Kodak Retinas have a #00 shutter. Some 6x9 folders may have a #0 shutter (the Voigtlander Bessa maybe?).

 

[Dan Fromm]

The 58/5.6 Hexanon fits a #0, Compur or Copal. Cock-and-shoot and self-cocking. The 60/5.6 (not your lens) won't fit a self-cocking #0.

I've harvested a number of Copal #0 shutters from Sirchie mug shot cameras. When I did this these beasts were very inexpensive, but I'm not sure this is still the case. If you decide to pursue them, be careful. Some have lenses in #00. Oops! I see you're in Germany. Probably not practical for you.

 

[grain elevator]

Thank you!
So would it be likely correct to assume that in medium format folders, the slower lenses, f/4.5 and down, are probably in #00 and the faster ones in #0 shutters? Or are there any other details by which to distinguish them in ebay photos?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Thank you!
So would it be likely correct to assume that in medium format folders, the slower lenses, f/4.5 and down, are probably in #00 and the faster ones in #0 shutters? Or are there any other details by which to distinguish them in ebay photos?

I don't know. f/4.5ers and faster are probably in #0s, but this may depend on the camera. Pre-1945 shutters aren't all to modern standards. I

If you find a camera or lens with a shutter that might do, ask the seller for details about it or look online for information that might tell you what size the shutter is.

An alternative would be to get a #1 shutter -- #0 and #1 have the same tube lenth, 20 mm -- and have reducing bushings made (interior M29.5x0.5, front exterior M40x0.75, rear exterior M36x0.75). I'm in the US, would send complete lens in its native shutter and a #1 to Skgrimes. There are similar machine shops in the EU, but I'm not acquainted with any.

I just looked ebay.com and ebay.de. Here the going price for a #0 is around USD 200. Polaroid MP4 Copal #1 Press shutters are much less expensive here and in DE. Their tube lengths aren't exactly 20 mm but your machinist should be able to fix that.

 

[OAPOli]

Thank you!
So would it be likely correct to assume that in medium format folders, the slower lenses, f/4.5 and down, are probably in #00 and the faster ones in #0 shutters? Or are there any other details by which to distinguish them in ebay photos?

I don't think so; the focal length is also a factor. Since 6x9 folders have longer lenses there is a better chance of them having a larger shutter. As said you would have to ask for some measurements. I've had 645 and 6x6 folders and they had #00 shutters (75/3.5 lenses).

 

[grain elevator]

Alright I've realised that I own a #0 Compur in a 6.5x9 Voigtländer plate camera. At least it may be #0 judging by the diameter of the front threads, but it's pre-war, so as per Dan above, maybe it isn't actually 0, just close. I'll see when I have the lens. It lacks modern conveniences like click stops and flash sync, but as finding one seems a little harder than I thought, I'll extract it from the camera, at least for initial trials (and as these things go, it likely will become the permanent solution).
For the record, if someone with the same questions ever comes across the thread or as a note to myself, should I ever hunt for another one, it comes on a 10.5 cm f/4.5 lens.
Might also spring for a self cocking shutter. The slower nominal too speed is a turn-off, but might actually not be much slower than the 1/250 on a much older shutter.
Thanks for your input!

 

[grain elevator]

Update: The pre-war Compur has the right threads in the front, roughly the right depth (I can't tell to more than half a millimetre as I don't have calipers), but the rear threads are too small, not the same is the front threads as on a standard #0 shutter. Other specimens might be different, the rear flange looks like it could be easily exchanged, perhaps different lens manufacturers used different ones.
I might try to jury rig something that will allow me to push the little trigger lever of the existing shutter on the Hexagon with a cable release. But it requires much more force than a typical leaf shutter trigger, so not sure if that will work.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I looked in the drawer, found a 105/3.5 Helomar in a Voigtlaender badged shutter threaded #0 front and rear, didn't measure tube length. There are a few on eBay.de at semi-reasonable prices.

Voigtländer Bessa Kamera mit Objektiv Helomar 1:3,5 10,5 cm mit Tasche | eBay

Keine Neuware! Es muß mit Gebrauchsspuren gerechnet werden! Guter Zustand für sein Alter.

www.ebay.de

VOIGTLANDER HELOMAR F/3.5 105MM LENS IN WORKING COMPUR-RAPID SHUTTER VINTAGE | eBay

VOIGTLANDER BRAUNSCHWEIG. F/3.5 - 105MM LENS. THE COMPUR-RAPID SHUTTER IS FULLY WORKING. THE SPEEDS ARE PRETTY CLOSE. GLASS IS CLEAN, IT IS EXCEPTIONAL FOR ITS AGE WELL TAKEN CARE OF. We will usually respond within 24 Hours.

www.ebay.de

If those won't do,

Copal Press - No,0 Shutter *VG2 | eBay

It works properly.

www.ebay.de

Prontor-Press Xenar 1:4,5/105 Schneider-Kreuznach Lens/Shutter | eBay

The Prontor-Press Xenar 1:4,5/105 Schneider-Kreuznach Lens/Shutter is a high-quality lens with a focal length of 105mm and a maximum aperture of f/4.5. It is designed by the renowned brand Schneider-Kreuznach for use in photography, providing excellent image quality and versatility for capturing...

www.ebay.de

 

[grain elevator]

Thank you, that's great to know, I may hunt one if these down!

 

[grain elevator]

Got tired of looking for shutters in folders after another one that wasn't quite to #0 standard (the second time the threads on the front were non standard). I've acquired a #0 Synchro Compur attached to a 90/6.8 Angulon, this was cheaper than all alternatives I found. It even runs plausibly after disassembling and cleaning. If anyone needs the Angulon 90 lens without shutter, let me know.
Unfortunately, this Compur has an outer diameter so small that it hardly protrudes past the large front cell of the Hexanon. This makes setting aperture and speed, and especially reading the scales, difficult. Are other makes of shutter larger? If yes, does anyone in Europe want to swap?

 

[Chuck1]

There's a more modern compur 0 with a thicker shutter speed selector rim (it has little squares along the edge) I think it came on a schneider 135

 

[Dan Fromm]

Unfortunately, this Compur has an outer diameter so small that it hardly protrudes past the large front cell of the Hexanon. This makes setting aperture and speed, and especially reading the scales, difficult. Are other makes of shutter larger? If yes, does anyone in Europe want to swap?

If I didn't tell you that my 58/5.6 Konica Hexanon ex-Omegaflex is now in a cock-and-shoot Copal #0 with plenty of room for reaching the shutter's controls, I should have. I also tried in it a #0 Copal Press with the same results. I had a 60/5.6 Konica Hexanon ex-Koni Omega in the cock-and-shoot Copal 0, retired it in favor of the 58. The 60 can't be put in a press shutter, the rear cell interferes with the shutter and diaphragm blades.

 

[grain elevator]

I also tried in it a #0 Copal Press with the same results.

Just so I can be certain, with the Copal Press, did you have the same results as with the Copal cock-and-shoot (i.e. good access) or same as I reported with the Compur?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Just so I can be certain, with the Copal Press, did you have the same results as with the Copal cock-and-shoot (i.e. good access) or same as I reported with the Compur?

Please reread post #13 above. To be clear, I had no access problems with a Copal #0. None. Copal #0 cock-and-shoot and press shutters are the same size. The 58/5.6 Konica Hexanon/Omegon will work perfectly well with a #0 Copal Press.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Slight correction. It depends on the shutter. I looked in the drawers. Some of my Copal #0 Press shutters have aperture and shutter speed scales engraved on the side. Others don't. Same goes for my cock-and-shoot Copal 0s. The 58 Hexanon/Omegon wants a shutter with scales on the side.