Why would you buy expired 35mm film?

[Alan Edward Klein]

Three scenarios:

1. If you like a certain film and it is no longer made, then you have no choice but to buy it expired. Unfortunately, most sellers on the 'Bay have no information on how it was stored over the years. Many appear to be buyers who visit sales where a house or estate is being cleaned out. One in awhile, you are lucky and can find a seller who stored his own film in a freezer and is now selling it.

2. Occasionally, a trustworthy seller like Ultrafine Online sells cold-stored expired film. This is a safe bet.

3. Currently available film that is expired but sold at close to current new price. This is utterly baffling to me. I think many of the sellers are dreamers who think they have something rare and precious. Why buy 10-year-old Tri-X when you can buy it brand new unless the price is drastically reduced (and it never is). Bizarre.

But if it's expired, it won't look like the original unexpired emulsion you liked.

 

[Les Sarile]

But if it's expired, it won't look like the original unexpired emulsion you liked.

But if it's color negatives, it's really anyone's guess what is "real" as in this example of fresh perfectly exposed Kodak Gold 100 that every lab has probably processed and printed for years except now they are scanned . . .

Kodak Gold 100-7_30-36 Coolscan-Noritsu by Les DMess, on Flickr

Many years ago I saw a local CL listing for free box of Kodak Ektar 125 that's been sitting out in a hot Atlanta covered driveway for many years. So I picked it up and tried a few rolls at various ISO settings to try to determine if they were still useful.

Kodak Ektar 125 box by Les DMess, on Flickr

It expired in 1992 and I picked it up shot, processed and scanned in 9/2010. I figure the optimum setting was ISO32 . . .

Kodak Ektar 125-1_03 by Les DMess, on Flickr

 

[henryvk]

But if it's expired, it won't look like the original unexpired emulsion you liked.

That depends on many factors. Have you not read this thread?

 

[KitosLAB]

For me it's a blessing that there is an expired film. I'm not sure that without her I would have been able to do film photography at all. The minimum price for a color film in Ukraine is $15, tomorrow I hope to buy 40 rolls of expired Konika at an auction no more than $5 per roll. The quality of an expired film is not much different from a fresh one. Expired film needs good light.
Yashika Zoomate 70 Camera Konica Film
UFO Image Point and Shoot Camera Konica Film 100
In the case of black and white film, everything is even more interesting. The minimum price at which I can buy a fresh film is about 5 dollars, but I will buy an overdue film for 1-2 dollars. A little benzotriazole during development and there is almost no veil at all.
In addition, I trade cameras and I need to check and test a lot, I absolutely could not do this with fresh film, the price for it is sometimes higher than the price of the camera. On Saturday I will test AGFA Camera Werk AG and Zorkiy 2C. Zorky 2C to make sure the curtains are intact, you need to either disassemble the camera or shoot a test film, of course it’s easier for me to spend $ 1 and shoot the film.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

But if it's color negatives, it's really anyone's guess what is "real" as in this example of fresh perfectly exposed Kodak Gold 100 that every lab has probably processed and printed for years except now they are scanned . . .

Kodak Gold 100-7_30-36 Coolscan-Noritsu by Les DMess, on Flickr

Many years ago I saw a local CL listing for free box of Kodak Ektar 125 that's been sitting out in a hot Atlanta covered driveway for many years. So I picked it up and tried a few rolls at various ISO settings to try to determine if they were still useful.

odak Ektar 125 box by Les DMess, on Flickr

It expired in 1992 and I picked it up shot, processed and scanned in 9/2010. I figure the optimum setting was ISO Les DMess, on Flickr

That depends on many factors. Have you not read this thread?

Most expired film shots I've seen posted have colors that don't quite seem normal. If that's what you like, fine. But if you're hoping for normal colors, I think you're going to wait awhile before you get a shot that is normal.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

The quality of an expired film is not much different from a fresh one. Expired film needs good light.

If kept cool and dark, could be. When shooting Ektachrome 64 a couple of years back, all I got was pink and faint - far, far removed from anything fresh.
If I had to pay for it even half a price of E-6 film - which would be 8-9 EUR - I'd be heavily disappointed, yet you hardly can find expired slide film for such a low price, it's a mess and a risk that doesn't justify the asking price - you still have to pay a pretty penny for that processing or a little bit less for chemicals.

To me it seems something akin to collector's market - the price is set by crazy collectors willingness to pay exorbitant amounts, not by normal market processes. This or the fetishists of Lomo movement.

So I don't buy expired film anymore - simply doesn't make sense currently.

Edit:
To test hardware, Foma delivers cheap BW films to do so: should yield far more predictable, consistent results than introducing another huge variable: expired film that can render good exposures poorly. Buy a bulk Fomapan roll for 50€, divide that by say 18x 36 exposure rolls, and you have reliable test medium for the price of 3€. Buy 50m roll instead of classic 30,5m and save more - it could be possible to outprice your expired films with 50m roll: my poor napkin math estimates 1.8€ for a 36 exposure roll from a 50m Fomapan 100 bulk roll.

perforated films - meters

producer of black & white photo materials, films, papers, processing chemicals

fomaobchod.cz

And you can load toolless, and load say 10 frames for the test, saving even more.

You don't need color to test hardware, right?

 

[foc]

Any image or negative that has a prominent colour, like above, will cause a scanner to autocorrect it
It is the scanner operator that should see this and make the necessary correction.

 

[guangong]

In the early days B&H got their start selling outdated film (although only outdated for a very short time). So it really depends upon how long past the expiration date. Most likely important for professional work to avoid expired film so as to keep variations at a minimum. And more important for color than b/w.
Using long outdated film is foolish,when time and energy photographing and processing are taken into consideration.

 

[henryvk]

Most expired film shots I've seen posted have colors that don't quite seem normal. If that's what you like, fine. But if you're hoping for normal colors, I think you're going to wait awhile before you get a shot that is normal.

A lot, definitely, I'm not sure about "most". Maybe I have my blinders on because I shoot almost as much expired film as fresh. In my experience, as I've said above, you stick to, say, Portra and daylight photography, the odds are in your favour that the results will be okay. One can always nitpick, obviously.

If kept cool and dark, could be. When shooting Ektachrome 64 a couple of years back, all I got was pink and faint - far, far removed from anything fresh.
If I had to pay for it even half a price of E-6 film - which would be 8-9 EUR - I'd be heavily disappointed, yet you hardly can find expired slide film for such a low price, it's a mess and a risk that doesn't justify the asking price - you still have to pay a pretty penny for that processing or a little bit less for chemicals.

Yes, that's a pretty normal outcome for expired slide film. It makes better sense (to me at least) to treat it as "art" film and cross-process. Does it constitute "fetishism" to pay, say, half of the price of a fresh roll of slide film to use it as specialty film? I'm not sure.

 

[Les Sarile]

Any image or negative that has a prominent colour, like above, will cause a scanner to autocorrect it
It is the scanner operator that should see this and make the necessary correction.

Because of the super cheap price, most likely they never will check it. People who don't know any better may never ask. For the fun of it I asked and the operator ran the scan and print again getting the exact results.

This is the worst example I have but for the most part these cheap minilabs blowout highlights, over sharpen and apply too much contrast.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

The only expired film I've had luck and use on a normal basis is Aviphot 200 and 40 for 120/220 and 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. They are really stable and good films. Had some Trix and Plux that I got with bulk loaders I got but never good decent resulst with them.

I guess the main reason to use them is not having a fresh example of them. Nostalgia I guess?

 

[KitosLAB]

Svema LN-9, ISO 6

 

[oxcanary]

For me it's a blessing that there is an expired film. I'm not sure that without her I would have been able to do film photography at all. The minimum price for a color film in Ukraine is $15, tomorrow I hope to buy 40 rolls of expired Konika at an auction no more than $5 per roll. The quality of an expired film is not much different from a fresh one. Expired film needs good light.
Yashika Zoomate 70 Camera Konica Film
UFO Image Point and Shoot Camera Konica Film 100
In the case of black and white film, everything is even more interesting. The minimum price at which I can buy a fresh film is about 5 dollars, but I will buy an overdue film for 1-2 dollars. A little benzotriazole during development and there is almost no veil at all.
In addition, I trade cameras and I need to check and test a lot, I absolutely could not do this with fresh film, the price for it is sometimes higher than the price of the camera. On Saturday I will test AGFA Camera Werk AG and Zorkiy 2C. Zorky 2C to make sure the curtains are intact, you need to either disassemble the camera or shoot a test film, of course it’s easier for me to spend $ 1 and shoot the film.

 

[oxcanary]

Should we all send kitos some film as a gesture of solidarity?

 

[Pioneer]

Since I am not rich, and doubt I will become rich anytime soon, I happily shoot expired film. Once in awhile if I spot a good deal on expired film I will even buy it. Considering prices now days I am glad I don't usually have to.

Years and years ago (we won't say how long) I was working a good job and bought film on a regular basis. I am glad that I did. Now that I am retired I live on pretty restricted budget. Fortunately for me I bought far more film back then than I used on a regular basis.

Since my wonderful, significant other and I still enjoy eating I rarely buy film anymore. But I still have lots of film lying around that is still perfectly usable. I am pretty sure that some of the color slide film colors won't be wonderfully accurate but the scanner is marvelously handy for balancing colors when things get to far out of whack.

I loaded a 35 foot roll of Kodak TMAX 100 in my bulk loader yesterday and chuckled when I saw the "Use By:" date on the cannister. Since some of you seem to be concerned about using expired film I won't abuse you by telling you that date but I can assure you it wasn't yesterday. Lets just say that my Pentax K1000 is very familiar with some of the film I have been feeding it.

If I were making a living from my photography I probably wouldn't use this film for anything important but I also suspect that if I were making my living from photography I wouldn't be using film in the first place.

 

[Xylo]

I always find it funny when I see people frown upon using expired film as I've been using almost exclusively that for a number of years.
For B&W, the oldest I have is some original HP5 (before the plus version) that I got at a garage sale in a bulk loader. I figure its expiry date is well before 1989 and it still works fine.
And the other day I shot some Konica 100 iso color film and once I compensated for the odd colored base, the colors came out just fine. I must say I overexposed the heck out of this one to avoid the brown tone, but it worked fine enough for me.

 

[foc]

This is the worst example I have but for the most part these cheap minilabs blowout highlights, over sharpen and apply too much contrast.

Well, I beg to differ. The Frontier and Pakon film scanners are now cheap and like any piece of equipment, if used correctly by an operator that knows what they are doing, they will produce excellent results.

The lab your used may not have been very well run but it shouldn't tar all minilab with the one brush.

 

[Les Sarile]

Well, I beg to differ. The Frontier and Pakon film scanners are now cheap and like any piece of equipment, if used correctly by an operator that knows what they are doing, they will produce excellent results.

The lab your used may not have been very well run but it shouldn't tar all minilab with the one brush.

Agree that with knowledgeable operator that is given time, a good result can be achieved. What I pointed out as the problem is that supercheap minilab scans are done fully automatic and do not get reviewed.

 

[foc]

Agree that with knowledgeable operator that is given time, a good result can be achieved. What I pointed out as the problem is that supercheap minilab scans are done fully automatic and do not get reviewed.

Yes that is the problem but it is also why they are super cheap. Usually quality and super cheap don't go hand in hand.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Two reasons:

1. Cost driven
2. Like surprises and do not care is the color is off at times.

 

[Les Sarile]

How about nearly 20 year expired Kodak Royal Gold 25. Unlike the Kodak Ektar 125 - left out in the hot Atlanta elements, this was refrigerated.

Kodak Royal Gold 25 by Les DMess, on Flickr

Seems to be perfectly fine.

 

[ant!]

I buy it if I get it cheap, especially when it's now to be refrigerated or frozen and not more than 20 years expired. I make notes when I bought it and what I know about the storage before. For color negatives, I try to stick with the +1 stop per decade, for the first film of a batch and adjust from there. For B&W, often box speed is fine, but of course ISO plays a roll as well. If I think something is important, I still have enough fresh (or frozen by me all time and not too long expired) films in the freezer.
Sure, I got burned once when shooting and unknown (I think in camera found) film at box speed, but learned from that.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

How about nearly 20 year expired Kodak Royal Gold 25. Unlike the Kodak Ektar 125 - left out in the hot Atlanta elements, this was refrigerated.

Kodak Royal Gold 25 by Les DMess, on Flickr

Seems to be perfectly fine.

Nice results, Les. I wish I could find some Royal Gold 25, but I haven't seen any in months. The Royal films were confusing to me. The Royal 100 and regular Gold 100 looked the same, but maybe I didn't see subtle difference.

 

[KitosLAB]

Should we all send kitos some film as a gesture of solidarity?

I am impressed and grateful. In fact, if someone really wants to support, they can always find my store by simply asking Google for my nickname)) Fresh film is supplied to me by my daughter who lives in the Czech Republic. eBay has blocked the possibility of buying even a digital product from Ukraine))
But I rarely shoot on fresh film, and I often test cameras using expired film for this.
Last Saturday I tested Agfa camera Werk Ag very simple box camera with 6 x 9 frame
Svema64 film, expired 1985, which I bought for $1

Another camera passed the Fujifilm Zoom 38-120 test, UFO Image ISO200 film expired 2008

Next in line for testing is this camera, which is undergoing a complete restoration, the only regret is that I could not change the vinyl for leather. I test a lot, so I'm very glad that there is a very cheap expired film.

​

 

[CasioCassette]

I took up photography only 3 years ago, and after a year of digital, I have largerly much switched over to 35mm film. So having started shooting film in 2020 means I have missed out on a huge variety of film stocks that used to be readily available even 10 years ago, especially from Fujifilm. The only way I can get my hands on Astia, Sensia or tungsten-balanced Ektachrome is by buying expired stock, and then just hope for the best really. I wish I had started shooting film earlier and would have been able to select from a much wider choice, especially for slides which, as luck would have it, are my favorite.

I've had a wide range of results so far, from completely empty film to ones that came out as if they were fresh film. It's a gamble, but I like the waiting part, to see what the results will be. I've certainly learned to avoid badly stored slide films whenever I can, though.