Why isn't TMAX developer more popular?

[BetterSense]

It seems like nobody uses the stuff, at least based on internet traffic.

Kodak's documents indicate that it gives the best film speed out of all the Kodak developers, but it seems like most people that want to push film use Rodinal or Xtol. Why would they give up shadow speed, if TMAX developer is better?

What is TMAX developer good for? Is it only good with TMAX films? Even so, the recent "what developer for TMYII" thread, most people recommend developers besides TMAX developer.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Despite the original release of T-Max developers and films at the same time, the common wisdom is that the T-Max films were actually designed to work best with D-76 (I think John Sexton may have written about this some years ago), and then in recent years Xtol has been recommended more highly. D-76 and Xtol are solvent developers so they produce finer grain, but there are a lot of medium and large format users who may not be so worried about grain, and could prefer other developers like Rodinal for other reasons, like better acutance.

 

[JonPorter]

There's nothing wrong with Tmax developer. But when introduced it was heavily promoted to news photographers for push processing, a need that passed with the 20th century. Plus established developers such as D76, Rodinal and HC-110 have a tremendous amount of documentation written about them and have been championed by many prominent photographers over the decades. So maybe that has something to do with the perceived indifference toward Tmax developer today.

 

[pgomena]

It's also relatively expensive. At a 1:4 or 1:7 dilution, a quart doesn't go very far compared to HC-110 or Rodinal.

Peter Gomena

 

[c.louis]

Probably D-76, HC110 is much older. So there are a large # consumers, therefore schools, local photo stores much more likely to carried this than TMAX. It makes people know about at the same time they walk into the stores.
Also people afraid to try new stuff. I used D-76 because everybody told me it great. No one I knew use TMAX so I don't wanna spend my money to try it out.

 

[piu58]

A similar product to T Max developer ist Tetenal Ultrafin plus (slightly cheaper). It gives a good fine grain and a good speed. But sharpness ist less pronounce, as always.
To get more speed Microphen ist worth trying, more sharpness you will get from Rodinal or Perceptol 1:1.

 

[Oren Grad]

It's a good developer; I've gotten especially fine results using it with medium format TX.

But Kodak cautions against using T-Max developer with sheet film, because of the risk of dichroic fog. Since I use both roll film and sheet film, and in recent years I've preferred to standardize on one developer, T-Max is out for me. (FWIW, D-76 is my standard.)

 

[martinhughesireland]

Always found it too expensive... XTOL is allot cheaper and does a similar job in my opinion.. great shadow detail with xtol, very fine grain with xtol, xtols great for pushing also....

 

[clayne]

I agree that for anyone developing film with any kind of regularity XTOL is probably one of the best developers out there. On the flip-side anyone know of how TMax dev differs from a baseline dev like D-76?

 

[DanielStone]

But Kodak cautions against using T-Max developer with sheet film, because of the risk of dichroic fog....

Interesting.... I'm not faulting your methods, but Clyde Butcher has been a big proponent(well, maybe more of a "silent" proponent) of Tmax Developer and TMX100, and he's shooting in in 4x5-12x20.

so using it for sheet film might not be such a big deal, IDK, just noticed this when reading through his site the other day

-Dan

 

[Q.G.]

I use Tmax developer ever since the film and it was introduced.
I - silly, i know - never even considered using any other developer, because (after some tweaking of times and EI) i liked what i got.

 

[jp498]

I have used d76, tmax developer, and Xtol at various times.

Tmax developer does a good job. I think it is by far the best choice for processing Tmax 3200. I don't shoot that any more though. (Don't need to with digital, and was never a fan of the grain, but it was a necessary film for 90's sports)

D76 and Xtol do a good job on tmax 100 and 400. I've settled on xtol because I like it's look and I don't have to deal with 125+f water for mixing; It could be hours before things are cooled enough to use the d76 stock.

 

[AmsterdamMartin]

My favorite of all time is D-76, but my workflow doesn't need these large stock solutions. I keep throwing them away.
Therefore I use HC-110 for convenience, consistency and economy (I come home, mix a developer, process a film or two and that's it).
TMAX dev I have used quite some time because it obviously is for TMax films. When it was my first choice I also used it for all the other modern T-grains, with nice results. Very convenient to use but I kept buying new bottles all the time, and the result is just as good as HC-110 or D76. As far as I am concerned the value in TMax dev is pushing, allthough D-76 and HC-110 aren't bad either.
Personally I have a very hard time seeing the reported differences, if any.
99% I shoot box speed, and I work hybrid a lot these days. My favorite push is HP5+ to 1600 (looks metallic to me), and in my eye all 3 developers work the same.
Therefore I do not use TMAX dev any more.

This might be an interesting analysis, from a well known authority (ultrafin plus read TMax dev):

http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/Film/page39.html

Quote Erwin Puts:
"Current films and developers are less sensitive in creating grain and sharpness effects as has been assumed over the years. Sharpness impression is mostly the result of an irregular pattern of grain clumps of various sizes. And the larger the size, the higher the sharpness impression. Tri-X looks sharper than Techpan. Tri-X film is not so good for testing lenses, as it creates a sharpness imression that is not based on the optical performance.
Acutance effects can hardly be demonstrated and if they exist, they operate on a subtle level.
Developer choices are not so effective for current films. They do influence the grain size and distribution and gradation, but the enlargement factor to show the effects is often beyond a normal users work style. (more than 20 times enlargement)."

 

[Jeff Kubach]

I like T-Max developer but like it was mention before it is a little more expensive.

Jeff

 

[mts]

Hmax Concentrate (Kodak Tmax concentrate clone)

cf. D. Neville SuperBull, #38, p.7. There was a lot of discussion regarding this formula intended as a substitute for the official TMax concentrate. I find it works well and keeps a very long time. Use it in diluted form as a one-shot developer, as for the official product.

Water 110-120F 540 ml
Sod. Sulfite anhyd. 24 g
Antical #3 1% solution 45 ml
Hydroquinone 6 g
Kodalk (NaBO2•8H2O) 29 g
Dimezone S 1% solution 35 ml
KBr 1 g
Benzotriazole 0.2% solution 40 ml
Water to make 757 ml (matching the Kodak Tmax concentrate volume)

Set pH 9.8 @ 75-77F

Dilute stock solution: water @ 1:3 for use as one-shot Tmax developer (pH 9.6) per Kodak Tmax concentrate directions. Process using Tmax time-temperature tables.
Shelf life 6-12 month for concentrate.

 

[Ian Grant]

Despite the original release of T-Max developers and films at the same time, the common wisdom is that the T-Max films were actually designed to work best with D-76 (I think John Sexton may have written about this some years ago), and then in recent years Xtol has been recommended more highly. D-76 and Xtol are solvent developers so they produce finer grain, but there are a lot of medium and large format users who may not be so worried about grain, and could prefer other developers like Rodinal for other reasons, like better acutance.

The early Tmax films were not so good in D76, this was a reason for the push with Xtol and also the rapid introduction of Tmax developer(s).

While many of us can cope with an effective speed loss (in D76/ID-!!) photojournalists where having problems with it's poor push-ability and low effective EI.

John Sexton, in Darkroom Techniques mid 80's, was recommending Tmax 100's use at 50 EI, and in fact so where Kodak in their data-sheet if you wanted good tonality.

Tmax developer was designed to give a higher effective EI and allow better results with push processing, but a side effect was Dichroic fog in some instances if used for LF sheet films.

Many in the UK found that Rodinal was one of the best all-round developers with Tmax 100 & 400, but Xtol is on a par. Kodak still say Xtol gives better over-all quality with Tmax films compared to D-76.

Ian

 

[ic-racer]

I recently ran out of T-max developer. Using the alternatives (Rodinal, HC110) at 24C in a processor is not easy. You need a processor that can cool to 20C for the others.

I use T-max developer for all films and have done so since about 1986.

 

[kreeger]

I began testing the new Tmax 400 120 with the latest Tmax developer when it came out to see if it and were better combination than what I use today. I prefer one shot developers pre-mixed like Clayton F76, Rodinal, because I can't use up a gallon of mixed stock before ID11, D76 or Xtol go bad.

Over the last six months with my equipment which is Hasselblad V series gear, I tested with one lens, one body, a 500 ELX, with each emulsion. To measure exposure, my meter, a recently re-calibrated Pentax Spotmeter V. Subjects contained snow in sunlight and shade, sky and weathered wood for middle tones. I used an evenly lit dark foamboard in shade to make film speed tests and a white foamboard in sun for development time test to 1.30 for Zone VIII which is what my enlarger/#2 paper test is built for. With the testbed gear I found:

• The new Tmax 400/120 the highest of the three in true film speed at ISO 300, and the other two came in virtually a tie at ISO 200.

• I found Tmax Developer works well with Tmax 400/120 and Neopan 400 120 and shows the highlight separation I like. It made the 400TX 120 way too contrasty for my taste when developed for 1.30 Zone VIII density.

• For 400TX/120, I'll stick with HC110 Dilution E 1:47 forever I guess!

TMAX Pros-

• Kodak TMAX 400/120 has the highest true film speed and the smallest grain of the 3 films I tested, so I buy Kodak's marketing on that.

• It appears Tmax 400/120 is still going to be a few cents less per roll than 400TX/120.

TMAX Cons -

• The new Tmax 400/120 is the most touchy as far as development time goes regardless of developer. Thirty seconds of development difference with TMax Developer or Clayton F76+ is .10 density difference on my densitometer.

Costs for the penny pinchers

• Clayton F76+ / Arista Premium Liquid Film Developer @ 1:9 - $ 3.60 gallon working solution (by the time I buy 1/2 gallon concentrate and pay shipping on it from Freestyle).

• Kodak Tmax developer @ 1:4 using quart bottles ---------- $15.00 gallon - 4.1X the cost over Clayton.

End result...

I will still use Fuji Neopan 400 120 and Clayton F76+ as my standard until my stash is all gone. When Fuji killed that film a month ago, I bought 60 rolls and froze it to keep going. I will use 400TX again when the Neopan runs out, and continue to hold hope for new TMAX 400 120 as something I will have to work out the precision of development required to get what I need if Tri-X goes away - not likely if we continue to pay the premium for it!!!

Tmax Developer is just too costly to use without a benefit I can see with my eyes. If HC110 goes away I will have to reset my expectations!

 

[wclark5179]

Stupid me but when T-Max developer came out I thought it was only for T-Max films! And I use(d) different flavors than T-Max films therefore I never really considered using it. And I've got many developers to choose from in my darkroom.

 

[erikg]

The stuff is rather costly, compared to others, and speed isn't everything. Kodak developed Tmax RS to deal with the dichroic fog issue. Lots of choices out there, Tmax dev. is prob. popular enough given the crowd in the market place. They keep making it, that says something.

 

[Andrew Moxom]

I love TMAX developer. It works great for late films such as TXP 320 in 120 format. I use it 1:4 and replenish it. Used this way, it is VERY economical. Kodak specs say you can develop up to 15 rolls with the stock solution before needing to adjust development times. Using it replenished is also consistent. I have a 2l working batch of TMAX 1:4 strength developer ready to go. Prior to each session, I pour out about 500ml of working solution, and mix in another fresh batch of 1:4 (100ml developer, and 400ml water) and I am good to go. I could get away with less, but there is no need and I use this for approximately 5 rolls of film per session. This method of replenishment is something I've been doing with my fixer too and going on like this I see no reason for my developer to last indefinitely. I also find that TMAX dev season REALLY well too. After 15 rolls or so are through it, the negs are really nice, and not as easily blown in the highlights.... espeically handy for TXP. YMMV of course!

 

[df cardwell]

T Max developer is superb. It got a bad rap as result of folks (regardless of what they SHOULD have known)
who thought TMY was TriX, and TMax developer was D-76. A quick look at Kodak's published data,
while ignoring the babble, will give a quick hint what it does. Andrew has done just this, and is reaping the benefits.

Some clever shooters I knew 20 years ago found TMax developer was ideal for AGFA 25.

Great stuff. Folks don't use it because they don't know any better.

 

[removed account4]

tmax rs is made for sheet film.
it can also be replenished, and used with roll films.

 

[sarahfoto]

Tmax is the only developer I've ever used, apart from a couple of detours with Rodinal. Recently I thought of trying something else though, because I am so stupidly persistent in thinking I will remember how many films I develop without writing it down. So end up using it when it's very weak, but reading Andrews reply about replenishing I might try that.

 

[R gould]

I used to use Tmax developer when it first came out and very good it is too, but for me it either Rodinal or Champion Promicrol developers as I find T max is simply too expensive,Rodinal is a good everyday developer and Promicrol I find good if I need fine grain or to push, and both are much more ecconmicol than T max,Richard