Why is the higher level photography mostly black and white??

[Helge]

He means you used a specialist term - belonging to some branch of study - without explaining what it means. It's a bit like name-dropping, but academically more acceptable (at least on the surface).

I didn’t intent it to be specialist. It’s one of the most overused and misused terms in recent history. A fact that he seems to have understood along with the words.

Anyhow, you have the most comprehensive dictionary ever right in front of you.
Precise terms are invented because they are needed.

 

[Helge]

No - that's an assessment of a valuation of the arts.

Absolutely not.
There is no value judgment in “high and low arts”.

You can have terrible “high art” (broken moral system or teetering on the brink of flipping into camp and kitsch, plagiarism etc.).
And devine applied arts (architecture, ornament, furniture).

 

[Don_ih]

There is no value judgment in “high and low arts”.

I didn't say value judgement. I said an assessment of a valuation of the arts. That would be a splitting of various arts into categories and then ordering that according to value. Not that it matters. Almost everyone considers art to be mystical. The late enlightenment concept of the sublime is just about the only aesthetic postulate that everyone accepts (although they're seemingly not aware of it), resulting in people saying "I don't know what art is, but that's definitely not art and this definitely is art".

 

[removed account4]

"I don't know what art is, but that's definitely not art and this definitely is art".

I think that's porn, not art.

 

[Don_ih]

I think that's porn, not art.

Porn is art that makes money.

 

[Pieter12]

You guys need to go and take some photos. This has gone totally off the rails.

 

[Helge]

I didn't say value judgement. I said an assessment of a valuation of the arts. That would be a splitting of various arts into categories and then ordering that according to value. Not that it matters. Almost everyone considers art to be mystical. The late enlightenment concept of the sublime is just about the only aesthetic postulate that everyone accepts (although they're seemingly not aware of it), resulting in people saying "I don't know what art is, but that's definitely not art and this definitely is art".

Isn’t this what we talked about?
What do you think I was referring to? Single works?
Everything is mystical in some sense. There is no getting to the bottom. That doesn’t preclude us putting up ontologies and theories of operation, and that makes them that much more important.

 

[Helge]

You guys need to go and take some photos. This has gone totally off the rails.

Off the rails‽ Because what? We are discussing the subject. Maybe not in a super direct way, but that is quickly done, and uninteresting after the first few subjective cynical observations.

 

[Pieter12]

Off the rails‽ Because what? We are discussing the subject. Maybe not in a super direct way, but that is quickly done, and uninteresting after the first few subjective cynical observations.

And the subject is?

 

[Helge]

And the subject is?

Why are you here?

 

[Pieter12]

Why are you here?

That's pretty deep. 42?

 

[Helge]

That's pretty deep. 42?

The genius of Douglas Adams was putting into a great story/parable that the question itself is more often than not poorly thought out and ultimately nonsensical.
And that arriving at the “correct” question is often impossible and would take a complete alteration of your reality that makes the original context void.
In other words a version of the hermeneutic circle.

 

[Bill Burk]

I sent three photos out to an online friend. He knows me through my comedy music connections and one of the photos included Weird Al. But he liked “Pedestrian’s Foot” and “Fern and Clover”. So I sent him one of those and I had a few “Red Cone” and I sent him that.

It made me feel good that someone might put something of mine on his walls. I don’t have enough walls here for my own stuff.

What really made me feel good was that he picked pictures of mine that I like.

I am not sure how this fits the thread. But when it comes to self-doubt about the worth of your photos... Send some out. It will make you feel better.

 

[Don_ih]

Everything is mystical in some sense.

I was actually saying nothing is mystical.

And the subject is?

The subject is why the most artistically respected photographs tend to be black and white. I said it was because photography became accepted, and attained its highest level of respect, as an art form before colour was a viable choice. Then I was asked when it ever became respectable and have been told it never was an art form and that there is a hierarchy of arts. Seems to me that it didn't stray from the topic.

 

[Helge]

I was actually saying nothing is mystical.



The subject is why the most artistically respected photographs tend to be black and white. I said it was because photography became accepted, and attained its highest level of respect, as an art form before colour was a viable choice. Then I was asked when it ever became respectable and have been told it never was an art form and that there is a hierarchy of arts. Seems to me that it didn't stray from the topic.

Well there is clearly some patterns and some known mechanisms in art.
I won’t say there is a direct correlation between Gödel's incompleteness theorems and the impossibility of “getting to the bottom” in any field. But there is some similarities.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

A child once quipped, “What was it like when everything was black and white?” referring to the early days of TV broadcasting.

I'm old enough to remember when people asked, "I wonder what's on radio?" Sirius XM Satellite Radio has one station that plays some of the old radio programs, many that were incorporated into TV programs later like Gunsmoke, Ozzie and Harriet, The Lone Ranger, Have Gun Will Travel, Perry Mason, The Adventures of Superman, Dragnet, etc.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

While BW highlights form, color can add its own character even with a simple picture that would seem better in BW I tried this color picture in BW thinking it might be good, but found it boring in monochrome
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/50768568606/in/album-72157715763486212/

 

[removed account4]

I am not sure how this fits the thread. But when it comes to self-doubt about the worth of your photos... Send some out. It will make you feel better.

BILL!
fits in perfectly they are color and art !

Porn is art that makes money.

not sure about that but people are entitled to their own opinions..

In a way art is the ultimate Dunning-Kruger test.

how is making art the ultimate Dunning-Kruger test ?
the other day I picked up food at subw@y and it was made by a sandwich artist
it was pretty good. the next one I buy I am going to cast in lucite and have her sign it.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Inertia.

 

[Bill Burk]

If you compare photography with music, you're making something that looks good to the eye, while with music you're making something that sounds good to the ear.

With black and white photography involving choosing the film stock, film size, developer and print you are taking a part in the entire process, as if with sound you are both a musician and a recording engineer at the same time.

Ok maybe you're just a recording engineer and your subject is the musician.

 

[Don_ih]

not sure about that but people are entitled to their own opinions

Well, black and white "artistic" nude photos are porn that doesn't make money. Nothing makes you more of an artist as a photographer than taking pictures of naked girls - that's a well-known fact.

compare photography with music

Another can of worms!!!!

 

[warden]

Poetry and the plastic arts (like photography) are different things but make similar demands on the reader/viewer. When fatigued I often read a few pages of text on autopilot, absorbing nothing, and need to reverse my steps and try again. I have the same issue with photography and often look too quickly or with a lack of mental energy.

I read once that the act of reading an important book ought to be approached in the same way as playing music from a score; it's all right there on the page but without the effort and focus of a talented musician the score is mostly marks on a page and without life or art. Photographs are the same for me: if there is art there it is not independent, and needs attention and receptiveness from the viewer for it to come alive.

This has nothing to do with black and white vs color, but black and white is better for what it's worth.

 

[warden]

I sent three photos out to an online friend. He knows me through my comedy music connections and one of the photos included Weird Al. But he liked “Pedestrian’s Foot” and “Fern and Clover”. So I sent him one of those and I had a few “Red Cone” and I sent him that.

It made me feel good that someone might put something of mine on his walls. I don’t have enough walls here for my own stuff.

What really made me feel good was that he picked pictures of mine that I like.

I am not sure how this fits the thread. But when it comes to self-doubt about the worth of your photos... Send some out. It will make you feel better.

Two thumbs up!

 

[warden]

Well, black and white "artistic" nude photos are porn that doesn't make money. Nothing makes you more of an artist as a photographer than taking pictures of naked girls - that's a well-known fact.

Disparaging the talented photographers on this site by calling their work porn is not cool.

 

[Bill Burk]

Another can of worms!!!!

Whenever I compare photography to music, I consider the sound of tape hiss as the equivalent of grain/film size. So Minox is comparable to a scratchy old acoustic '78, 35mm is like a cassette deck, 400 speed is like normal bias tape, 100 speed film handled with some care is like a cassette deck with Dolby. 4x5 is like reel-to-reel.

You can hear the difference in tape formats, you can see the difference in film formats...