Why do you think Ansel Adams is better known than William Mortensen?

[Helge]

I need a darkroom like that! Half a day to get the exposure right sound like me.

There’s also a wonderful hour long interview with AA, where you see him work, microwave his prints, wax lyrical on his life and suck up to a mustachiod snarky Georgia O'Keith.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There’s also a wonderful hour long interview with AA, where you see him work, microwave his prints, wax lyrical on his life and suck up to a mustachiod snarky Georgia O'Keith.

You must be eating your heart out, you are so jealous.

 

[Arthurwg]

Speaking of text, I'm reading Lewis Baltz's compilation published by Steidl. Sometimes some critical thinking comes in handy.

 

[warden]

Philosophy, especially in the hands of art schools, ruined art. In the words of Miro, everything has gone downhill since the days of the cave paintings.

Nothing has ruined art. Art cannot be ruined. Pay no attention to dead Miro; if he ever said what you claim he was mistaken.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Even the term "art" has been ruined. Any word that means just anything, doesn't really mean anything specific at all. Worst thing that ever happened to photography is "art".

 

[removed account4]

I am not interested in the cutting and pasting. I do not care for Surrealism. The focusing is part of composition to I do not have a problem with that. But I do not care for the supernatural creatures such as but not limited so Vampires, Werewolves, Fairies, Elves, Ghosts, Leprechauns, Unicorns and Virgins.

would have helped if you actually answered my question.
vaughn makes carbon prints which were made during the pictorials time period as well, are you suggesting that he considers his work to be paintings like the rest of the people making photographs during that time period ?

Philosophy, especially in the hands of art schools, ruined art. In the words of Miro, everything has gone downhill since the days of the cave paintings.

there was no such thing as art before the 1800s ..

Nothing has ruined art. Art cannot be ruined. Pay no attention to dead Miro; if he ever said what you claim he was mistaken.

couldn't agree more. this whole conversation is kind of funny
its like saying the worst thing that happened to a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is sliced bread...

 

[warden]

Even the term "art" has been ruined. Any word that means just anything, doesn't really mean anything specific at all. Worst thing that ever happened to photography is "art".

The term “art” has not been ruined.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I don't think AA ever used the original light bank option much, at least in terms of trying to automatically burn in approximate areas by selective rheostat use. It was too crude for that, but he certainly tried. For my 8x10 cold light enlarger, I ordered a special high-output Aristo V54 unit. That thing really is fast. But I wanted something that would punch through an attached contrast mask, pyro stain, and deep separation filters too for sake of split printing. Nice when I don't want to use my big 8x10 colorhead enlargers. It's in a smaller room with a lower ceiling, well insulated and quite easy to keep warm in cold weather. I once had a big horizontal enlarger in there, but now do big prints via tall vertical enlargers in a different room with a high ceiling.

 

[DREW WILEY]

jwarden - didn't you just use the term "art". That proves its ruined! ... And jnantz doesn't seem to realize that cave painting was before the 1880's. They invented carbon printing, as well as red iron oxide and yellow ochre printing. I wish my view camera had a wooly mammoth dark cloth.

 

[removed account4]

jwarden - didn't you just use the term "art". That proves its ruined! ... And jnantz doesn't seem to realize that cave painting was before the 1880's. They invented carbon printing, as well as red iron oxide and yellow ochre printing. I wish my view camera had a wooly mammoth dark cloth.

don't be too sure of yourself DREW.

The cave painters didn't necessarily call it art / it might not have been made specifically with the intent of being art. Modern humans found it and claim it is art. The cave paintings at Lascaux ( for example ) might have been made just to document an event/events. So sure we can say they are artistic, took skill and effort, knowledge &c but without intent of being art, its not really art. Is the Aztec Calendar Stone art as well? What about the Moʻai, / heads at Easter Island ? Its like suggesting that because a building, or site or mural or sculpture or thing is on the (American) National Register of Historic Places it really means more than providing protection from a government funded, planned or carried out project, when that is all it does (protection against urban renewal ). Anything over 50 years old is National Register Eligible even if it is a detached concrete 1930s automobile garage, 1940s Diner or 1930s billboard.

 

[warden]

jwarden - didn't you just use the term "art". That proves its ruined! ..

Aww that’s cute.

 

[Vaughn]

would have helped if you actually answered my question.
vaughn makes carbon prints which were made during the pictorials time period as well, are you suggesting that he considers his work to be paintings like the rest of the people making photographs during that time period ?
...

Hey, Mac...I resemble that remark. My carbons are like silver gelatin prints on steroids. You know, gaining a little weight, and watch those mood swings...

 

[Helge]

Funny how sooner or later most threads converge to “what is art”.

The short:
“Art” is a word.

The slightly longer:
Art is the only thing humans have as an exclusive trait.
Some birds do stuff that is close in kind, but is seemingly fundamentally different.
Art could very well cognitively be an extension of general play and imitative play, that almost all mammal infants do.
That would go well with how one of the main human defining traits is our extreme neoteny.
Art is also a peacock tail that never grows old or cheap.

The long answer: Break out the books and sink a month or two into preparing your conceptual apparatus.
Wikipedias article is not a half bad start:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art

 

[removed account4]

Hey, Mac...I resemble that remark. My carbons are like silver gelatin prints on steroids. You know, gaining a little weight, and watch those mood swings...

yeah. ... I can only imagine what they look like, I have never seen a carbon print before..

 

[eddie]

Hey, Mac...I resemble that remark. My carbons are like silver gelatin prints on steroids. You know, gaining a little weight, and watch those mood swings...

I've looked at that print at least 50 times, over the years. It dazzles each time...

 

[alanrockwood]

What I want to know is who cares if Ansel Adams was influenced by 19th century romantic landscape painters? Personally, I don't care much about that question. About all I care about is whether I like his photographs, and I do like his photographs... a lot.

For those who do care if AA was influenced by 19th century romantic landscape painters, more power to you. I won't begrudge you that opinion or the right to discuss it.

For those of you who like Mortensen's work, that's fine. It just doesn't resonate with me.

For those who care about hostile exchanges between AA and Mortensen, I suppose that can be an interesting historical discussion, and I admit it does seem mildly interesting to me, but no more than that. For those who are more passionate about it I say, have at it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

would have helped if you actually answered my question.
vaughn makes carbon prints which were made during the pictorials time period as well, are you suggesting that he considers his work to be paintings like the rest of the people making photographs during that time period ?

No, it is an older form of photographic printing.

there was no such thing as art before the 1800s ..

Well we now have established that you do not have a life outside of APUG trolling. By the way the longest continuous civilization, the Australian Aborigines, have petroglyphs that are over 50,000 years old.

couldn't agree more. this whole conversation is kind of funny
its like saying the worst thing that happened to a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is sliced bread...

Well again we now have established that you do not have a life outside of APUG trolling.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Better to fight about art than politics.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Harmless snowball fights here. No real substance.

 

[removed account4]

No, it is an older form of photographic printing.

really ? so because its an older process it is not allowed to be used by pictorialists ? you mentioned painterly photography and I still haven 't figured out what you meant because when I asked specifically you made the comment about a trombone and automobile. many of the pictorialist photographers were using this older type of printing in their work / pictorialist and photo-secession were doing all sorts of stuff. they also gravitated towards craft related / hand made platinum printing and gum over platinum &c to differentiate themselves from snapshot culture. (push button we do the rest) just like people who use film today, do the same thing to differentiate themselves from digital camera culture, and how people who do alternative process stuff do that work to differentiate themselves from people who do b/w film and enlarging / contact printing...
nothing new.

Well we now have established that you do not have a life outside of APUG trolling. By the way the longest continuous civilization, the Australian Aborigines, have petroglyphs that are over 50,000 years old.

not trolling at all, claiming artifacts made by an olde civilization as art is a new concept established in the 1800s. it is part of the whole idea of dividing people into races, categorizing pigeonholing everyone to establish cultural dominance of western men. modern western society claims things to be art that were never intended to be called art. we may see them as artistic but they were not made to be art ( have no use but being something ) but made by a society of "others" to be ruled and never let in because of their other-ness but at the same time celebrated because of the wonderful things they made by hand, close to nature &c... the whole noble savage type nonsense. everything from tribal masks to cave paintings. think of a spear or weapon or tomahawk used by a Native American. those things might look like art, and could be / can / are sometimes placed in museums and art galleries as art, but they were not intended to be art, they had / have a use/purpose. it has to do with intent and use, art has no use other than to be art.

it might interest you to have a look at sally price, and others that have written extensively on the subject.

 

[Luis-F-S]

Why do you think Ansel Adams is better known than William Mortensen? Both have books on photographic aesthetics and techniques. Has “pure photography” won over Pictorialism?

Easier to spell? L

 

[eddie]

Well again we now have established that you do not have a life outside of APUG trolling.

This is a ridiculous accusation.

 

[DREW WILEY]

jnantz - you are displaying a lot of basic ignorance of certain subjects, with unwarranted prejudicial stereotypes of you own. Anyone with REAL education in some of these topics can spot that really fast. "Art has no use other than to be art" ????? Tell that to the last 40,000 years of practice. Would anything count, by your draconian definition? And to give you just a tiny hint, there might be specialists in the field of Paleolithic art / non-art lurking around, who have uncovered many such things with their own hands, and intensively studied them at one time or another, who find your notion ridiculous. Nor could even a nonobjective painting by Kandinsky or Rothko qualify if it were put in a frame and then on a wall, because then it would double as decor, and not be real art. I guess real art can only exist in cyberspace, unseeable, by your silly definition.

 

[Sirius Glass]

jnantz - you are displaying a lot of basic ignorance of certain subjects, with unwarranted prejudicial stereotypes of you own. Anyone with REAL education in some of these topics can spot that really fast. "Art has no use other than to be art" ????? Tell that to the last 40,000 years of practice. Would anything count, by your draconian definition? And to give you just a tiny hint, there might be specialists in the field of Paleolithic art / non-art lurking around, who have uncovered many such things with their own hands, and intensively studied them at one time or another, who find your notion ridiculous.

Drew, he is in his own dream world AND do not show him Janson's History of Art. https://www.amazon.com/Jansons-History-Art-Tradition-Reissued/dp/0133878295

 

[eddie]

Drew- Do you believe the cave paintings at Lascaux were done to decorate the caves or, more likely, as a celebration of a successful hunt, a rite to assure a successful hunt, or some other quasi-religious purpose?