White dots

R.Gould · Nov 8, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
Maybe from your local distributor.
Foma is much cheaper than Ilford.

From my film supplier, and others over here, Fomapan 400 is now more expensive in120 than HP5*, although the 35,,/36 is much cheaper

37th Exposure · Nov 8, 2020

Alessandro Serrao said:
Maybe from your local distributor.
Foma is much cheaper than Ilford.

I get my film from B&H or Freestyle just like most Americans. FP4 at B&H is USD 6.09 for a 120 roll. A roll of the Fomapan 100 is 4.79 That is the cheapest I can get either for. For me the extra 1.30 is well worth it even if my finances have taken a hit during COVID 19. Getting it right the first time is cheaper in the long run.

R.Gould · Nov 8, 2020

37th Exposure said:
I love the results I get with Foma film, but here we go again with the QC issues. Is there any reason why they cannot get the standards up to Ilford or Kodak? A smaller and newer company (Adox) can do it or so it seems so why can’t a company as old as Foma? If they have to raise the price so be it but with Foma now approaching the price of the fail safe (in my experience) Ilford film I don’t see why I shouldn’t just forget Foma altogether. I just bought a bunch of the affected rolls of F100 120 before the problem became known. I thought Foma had upped their QC. I should have just listened to my gut and bought FP4 instead. Not the same results but at least I can shoot with peace of mind.

What QC Issues, I hve used mainly F0mapan 400, and some 200, for at least 25 years, never yet had any QC problems, indeed,I have had more problems with Ilford than Foma, If the film was as bad as many here state I would have stopped using it 24 years ago, and if I get QC problems now I would stop using it, I love the film, and need good QC, but I have never had a film ruined by QC issues, I have had problems, but I could always trace it back to something I had done,

Mesabound · Nov 8, 2020

paolod said:
Has anyone noticed what color the spots are on the negative? I think I might have the same problem but in my case the spots are red.

Mine have been black. I thought I solved this when I deep cleaned my Jobo and got a really nice roll of HP5 immediately after, thinking it had been the result of a calcium deposit or some such, but I just dev'd another roll and they're back. Sigh.

paolod · Nov 9, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
The red dots are an interesting additional piece of information -- those would of course show as white in a print, and light gray to white if scanned as grayscale (scanned as color and converted might be different). The only thing I can think of that would be red in Foma film (the antihalation dye is blue in 120 and sheet sizes; the gray base does that job in 35mm) is one of the panchromatizing dyes. Some of the dyes used to give red sensitivity are red in color; erythrosine? is used for ortho films, probably panchro as well, and based on its name is probably also red.

Add this on top of the issues with antihalation dye not dissolving correctly and it points to a QC problem with a chemical supplier; chemicals clumping before they get into the gelatin and onto the base. There are fairly simple solutions to chemical clumping, but you have to know it's happening before you'd apply them, because they add additional cost to the manufacturing process...

I think there is something pink on the non-emulsion side. To try to eliminate the possibility that the pink spots were being produced during development, I put an un-developed sheet straight into the fixer. After washing off all of the blue dye the whole sheet was light pink and the small dark red spots were there, barely visible except with a magnifier. I had never seen the light pink before with this film, it always comes out colorless when I develop it normally. The light pink color and the red spots are both on the non-emulsion side; I can scratch them off with a razor leaving the film clear.

studiocarter · Jan 9, 2022

My film is 16mm movie film that came in a R-100 box. It is double perf. 020376-02, 2020-06. It gets white spots. I did soak one a while but still got white spots. Next test will soak longer, 30 min. I use Brita filtered water. The latest tests have been in D-94. There is no color that comes out of the soaking. The antihalation layer is removed in acid Dichromate bleach, 5 gms Dichromate, 10 ml sulfuric acid per Liter for 5 minuets. Lots of white spots.

technopoptart · Feb 10, 2022

albireo said:
Sorry, there has been some confusion. The Foma representative did _not_ recommend presoaking for 20 minutes _every_ Foma roll.

He recommended presoaking for 20 minutes the rolls from the _specific_ faulty batch I was inquiring about.

The faulty batch number, that requires 20 minutes presoaking is the following: 021056-3

In my experience, other batches do not show the problem and do not require 20m pre-soaking (though I'm sure a little won't hurt)

This is odd. Foma in 120 does not leave a blue dye after developing IME. It leaves a green dye. It is a darker green if you develop with Rodinal, and a lighter, pea-green if you develop with D-76/Xtol.

May I ask the expiry date of the Foma rolls you found to have blue dye? Are these Foma or Arista EDU? Could it be that Foma used to use blue dye but has not switched to green dye? Could it be that Arista repackages old batches of Foma and these leave a blue dye instead of green?

FWIW, the defective batch number above (021056-3) produces a green dye.

Interesting i had a roll of Foma 400 that came out with several blue frames as well as a scratchy moire pattern in the sky over a lake.

albireo · Feb 10, 2022

technopoptart said:
Interesting i had a roll of Foma 400 that came out with several blue frames as well as a scratchy moire pattern in the sky over a lake.

Not sure. Fomapan 400 in 120 has been completely problem-free in my workflow for the past 3 years or so. No scratches, no dots, nothing at all. More consistent even than Ilford film, with which I've experienced the 'white snow' issue.

I should add I only use fresh stocks of Foma, not Arista, which I purchase in bulk directly from the Czech manufacturer, with expiry date currently in 2024.

snusmumriken · Feb 10, 2022

Mesabound said:
I've also been suffering from a similar issue as this, though for me it has persisted across several rolls of HP5+ and now Acros II. Only difference between the rolls is that I mixed fresh fix and stop bath (1.5% glacial acetic acid dilution) with distilled water for the Acros, whereas in the HP5+ I mixed my chems with tap, and I used Rodinal w/ Acros (D76 and PMK Pyro w/ HP5+). All final rinses w/ distilled water. Only washing w/ tap.

I didn't want to complicate the discussion, but as Mesabound has already mentioned films other than Foma, I'd like to add that in the past I had similar issues when using Ilford Delta 100 in 35mm. I'm not for a moment suggesting that there was a problem with Delta 100, and by the same count I do wonder whether Foma is to blame either. I didn't notice the issue with other emulsions because I hardly used anything other than Delta 100 at the time.

I don't have this problem any more (at least not currently!). I still don't know what caused it, but the things I did to combat it were:

Filter all incoming water used for mixing chemicals and washing films. There are certainly tiny particles of iron in our tap water.
Filter all chemicals out of and back into the bottle, using a Paterson funnel filter. It's surprising what the filter catches. The fixer was a particular interest for the reasons mentioned by others in this thread. I store chemicals in 1-litre bottles, always empty the bottle entirely through the filter into a beaker, and wash the bottle before returning the contents.
Stop using a stop bath. I use a 2-bath developer, and it was suggested to me that going from a relatively strong alkali to an acid stop bath caused damage to the emulsion.
Never use a freshly-mixed developer made from powdered chemicals. I always leave it at least 24 hours and then filter it.

One or all of the above did the job for me. I hope this helps.

White dots

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