Which lenses for Praktina

[ant!]

After searching a camera from my hometown Dresden to own while living overseas since 10 years (see thread https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/which-camera-from-dresden-to-get.197562 ), I have settled on a Praktina. Not for practical reasons, but because it sounds like an interesting professional camera from a time when Dresden was the centre of camera development (before everything was going to Japan. And of course, there were a few other "hotspots" in Germany, but this was about my hometown...). It could have been another model (e.g. an Exakta), but somehow this spoke to me the most. So I bought a CLA'd Praktina FX from Slovakia, which should be on the way soon.

It comes with a Tessar 50/2.8, and while this is enough to shoot and figure out if I like the Praktina, I know there are other great lenses for this system. I dived already into http://www.praktina.com/ (and especially the Zeiss Jena section http://www.praktina.com/pulen02.htm ). I don't need a full system since my main SLR system is Minolta SR (but have also a tiny bit Minolta A-mount, quite a bit Pentax 645, and an Agfa Ambi Silette with 3 lenses...), just to try what is interesting. I guess something like 3 lenses without going super tele and without going into the crazy expensive range (I just saw someone offering the Zeiss Fernobjektiv 500mm f/8 in Praktina mount... While certainly interesting, I cannot imagine using a lens this long, dragging it around or paying the price...). So, normal / wide / short tele. What do you recommend?

It is an FX with SB aperture control, so ASB versions are out (unless I fall so much in love with the system that I get a Praktina IIa as well).

I guess for the normal, the Biotar 58/2 is the one to try, and easy to get. The Flexon/Pancolor 50/2 comes only in ASB for the Praktina IIa (but independently of this: How does it compare?). There is also a Tessar 40/2.8, but I assume this isn't a step up from the Tessar 50/2.8.

Wide: I guess I should the Flektogon 35/2.8 is set and with some waiting findable. I read it is actually more 37mm, but with the Biotar 58mm this isn't too bad. The Flektogon 25/4 comes only in ASB, and I assume it is quite a bit more rare and expensive, right?

Tele: Usually, 135mm are a bit too long for me and I prefer 85-100mm for portraits. In this range, I see a few choices though:
Biotar 75/1.5: seems super expensive (?) and great, with a strong swirl. I doubt I find it for a justifiable price, but who knows.
Biometar 80/2.8: this might be a good option? (I see one to sell with completely scrambled aperture, not just sticky, is something like this repairable by a specialist without parts? I guess I'll wait for one in better shape)
Biometar 120/2.8: only ASB version
Sonnar and Triotar 135/4: I assume the Sonnar is better? A bit long for my taste, but I see a reasonably priced Sonnar to sell, and they seem to pop up for low prices often enough... It might be the cheapest option out of these above?
Sonnar 180/2.8: On the long side and probably quite a bit heavier?

I am in absolutely no rush, just want to get some ideas since I am not so much familar with Zeiss lenses (and others from the 50s).
Are there any non-Zeiss lenses I should look out for? (I see right now also a Tele-Ennalyt 400/4.5 to sell, but that's way too long)

 

[Romanko]

Tessar is a very good lens. I would not spend extra for Biotar unless you specifically want this swirly bokeh. Personally, I prefer Tessar's rendering.

Try to find a Praktina IIA-DA model (the latest version of Praktina IIA) which accepts both FX and IIA lenses.
Meyer Optik, Steinheil Optik, A. Schacht and Schneider made lenses for Praktina of varying quality.

Captain Jack's Praktina Lenses

I would definitely get a 35 mm lens. Portrait lenses will be expensive. I would consider 135 mm instead. With the wide-angle, normal and short tele you will have a very usable system.
There are adapters from M42 to Praktina mount. And I have one from Leica Thread Mount (M39) to Praktina. Obviously, Leica lenses would not focus to infinity because of the register difference but Zenit-3M lenses, that have the same thread but longer register, might get close to infinity.

 

[ic-racer]

So I bought a CLA'd Praktina FX

I had to look that up.
I'd get a lens unique to that camera system; something to make you use that Practina instead of your Minolta.
How about the Flectagon?

I was in a similar situation with an Edixa I got in Germany in 1979. The camera had special meaning, not that I ever lived in Germany, but just because I was there for 3 days once!

In my case I got an Enna Lithagon instead of a Flectagon, as the Enna lenses were more commonly sold with the Edixa cameras.

Edixa Standard -- Mechanical West German SLR

The Edixa user-s manual lists a 24mm lens that was available. I think it is this Lithagon 24mm f4. It is a pre-set lens, but that may be OK.

www.photrio.com

Does yours look like this?

 

[AnselMortensen]

I remember wanting one of those with the 250-exposure back after seeing it advertised in the back of photo magazines in the mid 1970's.... I think Olden Cameras had them for sale.

 

[ant!]

Does yours look like this?

Yes, that's it. The Praktina is different to the Praktika. It has a different mount (Praktina breech lock instead of Praktika m42 screw mount), and was a short-lived professional system, including motor drive (spring drive or electric), changeable viewfinders & focus screens etc.

Later the Praktina was dropped in favour for the cheaper Praktika, as for a while Pentacon, the East German company which took over KW, Zeiss Ikon Dresden, Meyer-Görlitz etc under one roof, had three incompatible SLR systems: Praktika, Praktina, Contax S. And there was still the Ihagee Exakta, as a fourth system from Dresden, all at the same time...

@Romanko
Thanks for your answer! Definitely will play with the Tessar first, but at least in Germany, the Biotar 58/2 is often found not so expensive (e.g. with a camera hanging on the back for less then 100 Euro...)...

 

[ant!]

I remember wanting one of those with the 250-exposure back after seeing it advertised in the back of photo magazines in the mid 1970's.... I think Olden Cameras had them for sale.

The Praktina was made only until early 60s, and there was a 17m / 420 exposures back ( http://www.praktina.com/puacc04.htm ). Maybe you mix them up with the Praktika? This magazine looks cool, but of course is absolutely impractical these days. Same for the stereo attachment (probably super rare and expensive, http://www.praktina.com/puacc06.htm )

 

[Ian Grant]

I paid £35 for my second Praktina FX with a mint 58mm f2 Biotar about three years ago, the body was engraved with a security number. Lenses like the Biotar are usually more expensive on their own as you say. I paid the same 6 months earlier for a mint FX and Tessar with a case.

I have a CZJ 135mm f4 Sonnar I bought last year, quite a small lens but very nice. Both my FX bodies are SA2's and Biotar/Tessar are the SA lenses, the Sonnar preset. More recently I bought aRapid Winding lever. I would like to add a wide angle lens I'd prefer a 28mm but CZJ only offered the 25mm or 35mm Flektagons, so maybe both.

The Sonnar was a better design than the Triotar, and more expensive, the Trioplan is softer wider open and a Cooke Triplet, often useful for portraits, they and Meyer Trioplans fetch high prices for use on DSLRs.

A comment about the CZJ coatings, I used a 150mm f4.5 T coatedTessar for quite a while, the coatings were superb, it never fkared even in cinditions where my CAnon DSLR (Zoom)lens would. The 58mm Biotar doesn't flare while my 58mm Helios-M does slightly.

Dream lens would be the 75mm f1.5 Biotar, just ned to win our National Lottery first

These are cameras to enjoy . . . . . . . .

Ian

 

[ant!]

Thanks! I paid for the fresh CLA'd FX from Slovakia 80 USD + shipping, given the work was done this sounds also more then fair. This was from "cupog" on ebay, which seems to be a legit repair person, not just someone doing DIY. He lowered to the actual shipping fee after I won the auction.

Actually, when looking on the German sold ebay ads and classifieds, the Biometar 80/2.8 seems to pop up from time to time, and while not ultra-cheap as the Sonnar, also not in crazy range like the 75/1.5, more in the range of the 35/2.8...

 

[Ian Grant]

When you look at the designs, the Triotar is a Triplet, the Sonnar a Tele-Tessar type, and the Biometar a Plasmat - and the standard lens for KW's Praktisix.

These Praktina cameras were cutting edge for their era, and a huge range of lenses, accessories, etc, the cheaper Nikon F introduced in 1959was their death-knell.

They are a league above the Zeiss Contax S/D, Exacta cameras or KW's own Praktiflex & later Praktica, they also make us ask why did the West German camera industry not lead with SLRs.

Ian

 

[ant!]

They are a league above the Zeiss Contax S/D, Exacta cameras or KW's own Praktiflex & later Praktica, they also make us ask why did the West German camera industry not lead with SLRs.

Ian

While all these East German / Dresden based cameras used focal plane shutters, the west stuck to leaf-shutters, and this turned out to be the wrong way for SLRs... The Japanese copied then the Praktina etc. (after they had copied already the Contax rangefinder, the Rollei TLR etc), and made it cheaper and after a while better as well...

The West German camera industry declined from there on, and the East German one when electronics got more important in the 70s, and after probably a decade of zombie life in the 80s died with the unification.

 

[Ian Grant]

When a British company bought Praktica after the collapse of the Berlin Wall they were amazed at the very high level of education of the staff, most had Degrees, many had PhDs, but their skills weren't being used. The change of direction and innovation was swift. Praktica made every part in-house down to the tiniest screws, that's not cost-effective.

Your term Zombie life is probably exactly right. I gave a friend who worked in Berlin 70s & 80's, and other contacts who lived in the East.

Ian

 

[Romanko]

How about the Flectagon?

I tried Meyer Optik Primagon f1:4.5 35mm which is available in Praktina mount (mine was M42 "professionally converted" from Exacta or some other mount. The focusing scale was on the opposite side of the barrel. I ended up returning it to the seller). It is OK and has a bit of "Meyer Optik look". If this is what you like you might also consider Meyer Optik Primotar f1:3.5 135 mm. If you go this route you will probably find that your Tessar has a totally different look. I am not sure if Primoplan f1.9 58 mm was available in Praktina mount, but these three lenses would make a fun outfit.

 

[MarkS]

Well, I've never seen a Praktina; only the occasional picture of one, or a fine-print listing in an old advertisement. So I have to ask, what is the purpose of the viewfinder window on an SLR camera?

 

[Romanko]

It gives you the option of using your SLR as a viewfinder camera. Apparently, this could be useful for shooting sports, kids and other similar subjects. Asahiflex and Alpa also had a viewfinder.

 

[ic-racer]

I can say that using slow vintage lenses on my Edixa reflex is challenging, especially with the stop-down lenses. Realize the screen will be very dim when composing with the lens stopped down. In fact the screen can be very dim with slow lenses wide open. Sure, one composes with the lens open, but after you manually stop down the lens, the subject can still move and, unless on a triopd, still one is composing the image.
So I can see the advantage of the Practina's extra viewfinder. Indeed it is an advanced camera design.

 

[ant!]

Further, if you use the waist-level finder, this can be used like a TLR's "sport finder". On the Praktina, is seems to match the field of view of the 58mm lens? (Some say it's a bit narrower then the 50mm, which would fit...)

 

[ant!]

I tried Meyer Optik Primagon f1:4.5 35mm which is available in Praktina mount (mine was M42 "professionally converted" from Exacta or some other mount. The focusing scale was on the opposite side of the barrel. I ended up returning it to the seller). It is OK and has a bit of "Meyer Optik look". If this is what you like you might also consider Meyer Optik Primotar f1:3.5 135 mm. If you go this route you will probably find that your Tessar has a totally different look. I am not sure if Primoplan f1.9 58 mm was available in Praktina mount, but these three lenses would make a fun outfit.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into these! The Primoplan does not exist for Praktina mount, the other two do.

It seems in general, the non-Zeiss lenses are mostly tele, with a few wide, but none are in the normal range. I guess because the Zeiss lenses were sold as kit lenses?

Since I have no experience with lenses from the 50s: Are the Zeiss lenses the "best" lenses in the system, and the others were basically cheaper alternatives (which does not mean they could not perform well or show interesting behavior...)? Or are there others on par or better then the Zeiss? I guess these might be rare, but what about the Angenieux wide angles, the Schneider Tele-Xenar or something like the Feinmess Bonotar 105? (all information from http://www.praktina.com/sitemapest.htm) Just looking which might be worth to try...

 

[markjwyatt]

After searching a camera from my hometown Dresden to own while living overseas since 10 years (see thread https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/which-camera-from-dresden-to-get.197562 ), I have settled on a Praktina. Not for practical reasons, but because it sounds like an interesting professional camera from a time when Dresden was the centre of camera development (before everything was going to Japan. And of course, there were a few other "hotspots" in Germany, but this was about my hometown...). It could have been another model (e.g. an Exakta), but somehow this spoke to me the most. So I bought a CLA'd Praktina FX from Slovakia, which should be on the way soon.

It comes with a Tessar 50/2.8, and while this is enough to shoot and figure out if I like the Praktina, I know there are other great lenses for this system. I dived already into http://www.praktina.com/ (and especially the Zeiss Jena section http://www.praktina.com/pulen02.htm ). I don't need a full system since my main SLR system is Minolta SR (but have also a tiny bit Minolta A-mount, quite a bit Pentax 645, and an Agfa Ambi Silette with 3 lenses...), just to try what is interesting. I guess something like 3 lenses without going super tele and without going into the crazy expensive range (I just saw someone offering the Zeiss Fernobjektiv 500mm f/8 in Praktina mount... While certainly interesting, I cannot imagine using a lens this long, dragging it around or paying the price...). So, normal / wide / short tele. What do you recommend?

It is an FX with SB aperture control, so ASB versions are out (unless I fall so much in love with the system that I get a Praktina IIa as well).

I guess for the normal, the Biotar 58/2 is the one to try, and easy to get. The Flexon/Pancolor 50/2 comes only in ASB for the Praktina IIa (but independently of this: How does it compare?). There is also a Tessar 40/2.8, but I assume this isn't a step up from the Tessar 50/2.8.

Wide: I guess I should the Flektogon 35/2.8 is set and with some waiting findable. I read it is actually more 37mm, but with the Biotar 58mm this isn't too bad. The Flektogon 25/4 comes only in ASB, and I assume it is quite a bit more rare and expensive, right?

Tele: Usually, 135mm are a bit too long for me and I prefer 85-100mm for portraits. In this range, I see a few choices though:
Biotar 75/1.5: seems super expensive (?) and great, with a strong swirl. I doubt I find it for a justifiable price, but who knows.
Biometar 80/2.8: this might be a good option? (I see one to sell with completely scrambled aperture, not just sticky, is something like this repairable by a specialist without parts? I guess I'll wait for one in better shape)
Biometar 120/2.8: only ASB version
Sonnar and Triotar 135/4: I assume the Sonnar is better? A bit long for my taste, but I see a reasonably priced Sonnar to sell, and they seem to pop up for low prices often enough... It might be the cheapest option out of these above?
Sonnar 180/2.8: On the long side and probably quite a bit heavier?

I am in absolutely no rush, just want to get some ideas since I am not so much familar with Zeiss lenses (and others from the 50s).
Are there any non-Zeiss lenses I should look out for? (I see right now also a Tele-Ennalyt 400/4.5 to sell, but that's way too long)

(Numbers from Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II, Carl Zeiss Jena, Hartmut Thiele)

The lenses made in any quantity for the Praktina are the 58mm f2 Biotar; the 50mm f2.8 Tessar; The first two by far the most made (20 thousand, + for the); the 35mm f2.8 Flektogon (10,000+); and the 135mm f4 Sonnars and Triotars (thousands each).

The 75mm f1.5 had almost 1600 made. the 80mm f2.8 about the same. The 40mm f4.5 Tessars had a bit over 1000 made. The 500mm f8? 30 made. The 25mm f4 Flektogon hadd qty less than 1500. The 80mm f4 less than 1600. 1150 @ 180mm f2.8 Sonnars were made. There a re 1000 120mm f2,8 Biometars out there, 100 50mm f2 Biotars, and 6 @ 300mm Biotars.

Good luck and keep an eye out for the rare ones.

 

[ant!]

(Numbers from Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II, Carl Zeiss Jena, Hartmut Thiele)

The lenses made in any quantity for the Praktina are the 58mm f2 Biotar; the 50mm f2.8 Tessar; The first two by far the most made (20 thousand, + for the); the 35mm f2.8 Flektogon (10,000+); and the 135mm f4 Sonnars and Triotars (thousands each).

The 75mm f1.5 had almost 1600 made. the 80mm f2.8 about the same. The 40mm f4.5 Tessars had a bit over 1000 made. The 500mm f8? 30 made. The 25mm f4 Flektogon hadd qty less than 1500. The 80mm f4 less than 1600. 1150 @ 180mm f2.8 Sonnars were made. There a re 1000 120mm f2,8 Biometars out there, 100 50mm f2 Biotars, and 6 @ 300mm Biotars.

Good luck and keep an eye out for the rare ones.

Thanks, these are useful! So you say there are only 30 of the 500/8 made? As mentioned, there is right now one to sell (not that I have use for it, and offered for 500 Euro...): https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s...ns-objektiv-fuer-praktina/2385186638-245-3407

And this reflects my first observation, many Tessar 50, Biotar 58, Flexon 50. Some Flektogon 35, Sonnar and Triotar 135. The others more rare (I still see a Tessar 45/4.5, a Flektogon 25mm in a poor state, and a not cheap Biometar 2.8/120..). And this is just right now, without looking for months around...

 

[markjwyatt]

Thanks, these are useful! So you say there are only 30 of the 500/8 made? As mentioned, there is right now one to sell (not that I have use for it, and offered for 500 Euro...): https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s...ns-objektiv-fuer-praktina/2385186638-245-3407

And this reflects my first observation, many Tessar 50, Biotar 58, Flexon 50. Some Flektogon 35, Sonnar and Triotar 135. The others more rare (I still see a Tessar 45/4.5, a Flektogon 25mm in a poor state, and a not cheap Biometar 2.8/120..). And this is just right now, without looking for months around...

Over 12,000 Flexons were made (sorry forgot to add that one), and less than 3000 Pancolor 50mm f2s.

 

[markjwyatt]

...So you say there are only 30 of the 500/8 made? As mentioned, there is right now one to sell (not that I have use for it, and offered for 500 Euro...): https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s...ns-objektiv-fuer-praktina/2385186638-245-3407...

That is what my reference says. Could be a collector's item.

There are actually 106 @ 300mm Biotars... (6 @ 30 cm, 100 @ 300mm)...

 

[ant!]

Over 12,000 Flexons were made (sorry forgot to add that one), and less than 3000 Pancolor 50mm f2s.

But there are actually the same, just renamed...

 

[DMS206]

I have a pancolar that I cleaned the haze out, it had 2 nameplates , the pancolar one was screwed in front of the flexon one. The Flektogon 35 is a very good lens.

 

[markjwyatt]

But there are actually the same, just renamed...

Makes sense. They are listed together, and are both Planar type designs.

 

[Ian Grant]

But there are actually the same, just renamed...

The same design optically, the difference is the Pancolar had much better new coatings, these gave far better colour balance. The earlier T coating gave a colder (bluer) look on transparencies films.

Ian