Which densitometer?

Sundowner · Dec 29, 2024

Time for me to finally quit making guesses and move into knowing how badly-processed my stuff really is.

Okay, my generic title says it all: I'm looking for a densitometer. I mostly need it for film at this point, but I'm also working on restructuring my printing process; l need one that handles both. I've futzed around with them in the past but they're not a tool with which I have a great deal of familiarity...so I'm open to any and all suggestions. Whatever I end up with needs to fulfill three criteria:

Compact footprint.
Ergonomic and easy to use.
Vaguely affordable.

Past that...yeah, I'm not too picky at this point and I'm open to pretty much anything that will work; as I do research and read too many opinions, that's likely to change. Reply or hit me up with a PM if you have one too many.

Nicholas Lindan · Dec 29, 2024

I recently purchased the Dektronics "Printalyzer Densitometer." https://www.dektronics.com/store/p/printalyzer-densitometer

Superb little unit: Very well engineered; Readings are steady and linearly non-linear; No muss-no fuss data logging; Optics to ISO/NIST specifications; About the size of a flip-phone; $300.

It replaced my aging Noritsu. The Noritsu's readings were drifting all over creation. I opened it up and gaaged at the technology - probably 'start of the art' in 1969 but now a bit of an embarrassment. Log conversion with an opamp and diode. Not fixable. I really shouldn't be so down on it, when it worked it worked well. Give it another 100 years and it will be a valuable antique, or not, probably not. Presently it is Etrash.

Buying an aging densitometer on ebay, althougth it may look attractive, wouldn't be a wise move. The electronics are at the end of life. It may work now but it is only a matter of some years till it goes wonky.

Chan Tran · Dec 30, 2024

I think you wouldn't think that it has compact foot print but I used to have the X-rite 810. It's a color densitometer and can do both transmission and reflection.

koraks · Dec 30, 2024

Sundowner said:
I'm looking for a densitometer.

Transmission or reflection? Or both?

Nicholas Lindan said:
I recently purchased the Dektronics "Printalyzer Densitometer." https://www.dektronics.com/store/p/printalyzer-densitometer

That's a nice and and it's both re/trans, and while I've not used it, I'd recommend it. @dkonigs has documented the engineering process quite extensively here on Photrio.

xkaes · Dec 30, 2024

My Beseler PM2L color analyzer -- or any enlarger analyzer -- can be used as a densitometer, and these can be found for under $20.

But if you want something smaller, many hand-held exposure meters have enlarger attachments and will work fine down to about 1/6 of an f-stop.

Sure, you have to convert "time" to "density", but that's easy. You might already have what you need.

Sundowner · Dec 30, 2024

Really good suggestions, all around; thank you to everyone that's responded and PMed thus far. After reading responses and following links and going down a densitometer rabbit hole until 0200, I realize that we might need to move this thread to a general discussion topic, because it's sort of heading that way.

Chan Tran · Dec 30, 2024

I recommended the X-Rite 810 because I had one before and it works really well and I thought it's not expensive but now I saw it's going for very high price on Ebay.

koraks · Dec 30, 2024

Sundowner said:
I realize that we might need to move this thread to a general discussion topic, because it's sort of heading that way.

If that's what you want, that's no problem at all; just let us know and we'll move it for you!

Sundowner · Dec 30, 2024

koraks said:
If that's what you want, that's no problem at all; just let us know and we'll move it for you!

Yep, let's do that; I'm going to post up some ideas and answers to suggestions here in a bit, so that's probably better placed elsewhere. Thank you!

Sundowner · Dec 30, 2024

Okay, quick follow-up with answers and thoughts:

This will be for film and paper, because I'm really bad with both of those materials. If there was a third material, I'd be bad with it as well.
Ease of use is very important to me; if it's not simple to set up, use, store and otherwise-work-with, it'll end up in the Box of Shame.
I'm not opposed to using older equipment, but I think I'd rather have something that's either still supported, or which doesn't need much support because it's not going to break, wear out in a critical way, or spontaneously de-calibrate itself in a way that would only be funny if it happened in a dated sitcom format. I have a lot of things that were state of the art in 1969; most of them need a lot of work to keep them going.

Also, I realized something: I have an RH StopClock...and I'm pretty sure there's a widget that can connect to it and which may do exactly what I'm looking for. Problem is, the StopClock is still in storage, so I'm not sure if it actually has the connections for the widget in question; it's an older model and I'm not sure if those connections were present back in the day, or if they were incorporated later.

Also, that Dektronics unit is pretty cool. Did I see that it's limited to 5"x7" paper? That probably wouldn't be a big issue for me, but my partner might object because she prints larger.

Hmmm...

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 30, 2024

I've been using the Heiland TRD2 since the late 90's. With it, I've made many film curves, and paper curves over the years...

koraks · Dec 30, 2024

Sundowner said:
Also, that Dektronics unit is pretty cool. Did I see that it's limited to 5"x7" paper? That probably wouldn't be a big issue for me, but my partner might object because she prints larger.

The way I see it, you mostly use the densitometer on test strips or even reject prints, so it doesn't seem like a big issue to work with smaller sizes (or snip off a part of a reject).

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 30, 2024

That is correct. For paper testing, I contact printed 4x5 Stouffer step wedge onto paper cut to the same size. The only time I struggle is when I'm reading 14x17 negatives.

Kino · Dec 30, 2024

I have the Dektronic unit and, other than the sampling aperture being a bit too large, it is easy to use and calibrate.

It is also LED based and no bulbs to replace (if you can even find them for XRite or Macbeth units).

You are limited in reach across paper and film sheets, but to me it's not worth the extra $700 price tag compared to the Heiland.

ic-racer · Dec 30, 2024

I have a few different transimssion densitometers.

For most film photography, I'd recommend a unit with an illuminated platen and an arm that comes over the top.

I'd avoid a unit that automatically reads control strips. I have four sensitometers and none of them are really good at making the strips for this machine.

albada · Dec 30, 2024

I also have the Dektronics unit, and I recommend it. After using it for both film and prints, I would buy it again.

Mark

Milpool · Dec 30, 2024

Sundowner said:
Time for me to finally quit making guesses and move into knowing how badly-processed my stuff really is.

Okay, my generic title says it all: I'm looking for a densitometer. I mostly need it for film at this point, but I'm also working on restructuring my printing process; l need one that handles both. I've futzed around with them in the past but they're not a tool with which I have a great deal of familiarity...so I'm open to any and all suggestions. Whatever I end up with needs to fulfill three criteria:

Compact footprint.

Ergonomic and easy to use.

Vaguely affordable.

Past that...yeah, I'm not too picky at this point and I'm open to pretty much anything that will work; as I do research and read too many opinions, that's likely to change. Reply or hit me up with a PM if you have one too many.

Before spending too much money keep in mind while it’s a useful tool for studying sensitometry/tone reproduction and attempting to objectively characterize some of the behaviours of materials or chemicals, a densitometer is really not going to help much when it comes to the practical matters of processing and especially making great prints. Don’t get too caught up in the notion of “great negatives” (which are easy to make with or without sensitometry equipment).

Sundowner · Dec 30, 2024

Kino said:
I have the Dektronic unit and, other than the sampling aperture being a bit too large, it is easy to use and calibrate.

It is also LED based and no bulbs to replace (if you can even find them for XRite or Macbeth units).

Solid point, regarding the LEDs.

ic-racer said:
For most film photography, I'd recommend a unit with an illuminated platen and an arm that comes over the top.

They seem easier to use, for sure...and since I really haven't used them often, "easy to use" is at the top of my list.

ic-racer said:
I'd avoid a unit that automatically reads control strips. I have four sensitometers and none of them are really good at making the strips for this machine.

That seems like an unnecessary step...and like extra work, as well.

albada said:
I also have the Dektronics unit, and I recommend it. After using it for both film and prints, I would buy it again.

Good to know; thank you! I really haven't seen a negative review for it, thus far.

Milpool said:
Before spending too much money keep in mind while it’s a useful tool for studying sensitometry/tone reproduction and attempting to objectively characterize some of the behaviours of materials or chemicals, a densitometer is really not going to help much when it comes to the practical matters of processing and especially making great prints. Don’t get too caught up in the notion of “great negatives” (which are easy to make with or without sensitometry equipment).

For the most part, I'm interested in generating objective data regarding what I'm seeing. Thus far, I've been very ad-hoc and cavalier about my processing, note-taking, data collection, etc...so after a three-year hiatus, I'm fuzzy on a lot of that stuff. So, I'm not gonna do that to myself again; I'm getting the opportunity to start anew and be cohesive in my approach and process, so understanding what's happening with certain constants and variables within my processing is of high value to me; I'm honestly tired of using dead reckoning.

As far as making great negatives and prints are concerned: I've always found it challenging to do either, which is what I'm hoping to change by way of my process improvements. Densitometry is a part of that equation, but it's not the entire equation.

And I still haven't found my timer, and I'm running out of boxes to unpack.

Chuck_P · Dec 30, 2024

I have the Dektronics Printalyzer Densitometer and I love it.

Milpool · Dec 30, 2024

Sundowner said:
For the most part, I'm interested in generating objective data regarding what I'm seeing. Thus far, I've been very ad-hoc and cavalier about my processing, note-taking, data collection, etc...so after a three-year hiatus, I'm fuzzy on a lot of that stuff. So, I'm not gonna do that to myself again; I'm getting the opportunity to start anew and be cohesive in my approach and process, so understanding what's happening with certain constants and variables within my processing is of high value to me; I'm honestly tired of using dead reckoning.

As far as making great negatives and prints are concerned: I've always found it challenging to do either, which is what I'm hoping to change by way of my process improvements. Densitometry is a part of that equation, but it's not the entire equation.

And I still haven't found my timer, and I'm running out of boxes to unpack.

Got it. Then I guess it seems like this Printalyzer unit is probably the way to go. I have a Heiland but it was significantly less expensive when I bought it many years ago. The Printalyzer seems like good value.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 30, 2024

Sundowner said:
Time for me to finally quit making guesses and move into knowing how badly-processed my stuff really is.

Okay, my generic title says it all: I'm looking for a densitometer. I mostly need it for film at this point, but I'm also working on restructuring my printing process; l need one that handles both. I've futzed around with them in the past but they're not a tool with which I have a great deal of familiarity...so I'm open to any and all suggestions. Whatever I end up with needs to fulfill three criteria:

Compact footprint.

Ergonomic and easy to use.

Vaguely affordable.

Past that...yeah, I'm not too picky at this point and I'm open to pretty much anything that will work; as I do research and read too many opinions, that's likely to change. Reply or hit me up with a PM if you have one too many.

Be brave and simply purchase the best densitometer available from Heiland Electronics in the "holy" city of Wetzlar. It does film and prints, and an extension cord is available so you can measure reflection densities on even the largest prints. It's robust and reliable without the need for recalibration all the time. Mine came calibrated 25 years ago and still measures accurately.

https://estore.heilind.de/?page=item-detail&itemcode=densitometer&dp=

Sundowner · Dec 30, 2024

Chuck_P said:
I have the Dektronics Printalyzer Densitometer and I love it.

I did get offered a good deal on one while I still had this thread in the classifieds...

Milpool said:
Got it. Then I guess it seems like this Printalyzer unit is probably the way to go. I have a Heiland but it was significantly less expensive when I bought it many years ago. The Printalyzer seems like good value.

I think it could be a good option, yes. I'm really glad that I posted this thread because until now, I didn't even know it existed.

RalphLambrecht said:
Be brave and simply purchase the best densitometer available from Heiland Electronics in the "holy" city of Wetzlar. It does film and prints, and an extension cord is available so you can measure reflection densities on even the largest prints. It's robust and reliable without the need for recalibration all the time. Mine came calibrated 25 years ago and still measures accurately.

Objection, though: literally everything that I have from the Holy City of Wetzlar requires near-constant re-calibration. A good degree of daily affection and attention are also required, as are lingering caresses, whispered sweet nothings, ritual prayers to St. Oskar, and the occasional absinthe-fueled sacrifice to The Old Masters. Skipping out on any of these results in a sticking shutter curtain that only manifests itself at the most inopportune of moments...and I know this because I have lived it.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 31, 2024

Sundowner said:
I did get offered a good deal on one while I still had this thread in the classifieds...

I think it could be a good option, yes. I'm really glad that I posted this thread because until now, I didn't even know it existed.

Objection, though: literally everything that I have from the Holy City of Wetzlar requires near-constant re-calibration. A good degree of daily affection and attention are also required, as are lingering caresses, whispered sweet nothings, ritual prayers to St. Oskar, and the occasional absinthe-fueled sacrifice to The Old Masters. Skipping out on any of these results in a sticking shutter curtain that only manifests itself at the most inopportune of moments...and I know this because I have lived it.

I was talking about Heiland, not Leica

Sundowner · Dec 31, 2024

RalphLambrecht said:
I was talking about Heiland, not Leica

I know; I was just objecting on the grounds of Leica having poisoned the Great Wetzlar Well of Fussiness for everyone and for all time.

On a serious note, though; I do like my old and busted M-cam...but it's part of the reason that I want a densitometer. Sometimes, when using it, I accidentally creat a very interesting look in the resulting prints, and I'm pretty sure that such events are due to a particular combination of film, developer and lens. I'd like to get a better handle on events like that; I'd prefer to know what the results are and have some data regarding them instead of just saying "Well that looks pretty good; better not send it in for a tune-up."

koraks · Dec 31, 2024

RalphLambrecht said:
https://estore.heilind.de/?page=item-detail&itemcode=densitometer&dp=

You meant this, I think: https://heilandelectronic.de/densitometer_intro/lang:en

Which densitometer?

Sundowner

Nicholas Lindan

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Chan Tran

koraks

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xkaes

Sundowner

Chan Tran

koraks

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Sundowner

Sundowner

Andrew O'Neill

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koraks

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Andrew O'Neill

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Kino

ic-racer

albada

Milpool

Sundowner

Chuck_P

Milpool

RalphLambrecht

Sundowner

RalphLambrecht

Sundowner

koraks

Moderator

Which densitometer?

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