Which comes first...the shutter speed or the shutter cocking?
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Yup, it’s me. If you search The Large Format Forum you will find several posts about this that I made over the years on how Rodenstock shipped or lenses for inventory to us and their not knowing how long we would have them in stock or how long our dealers would have them in stock before they were sold to an end user.
That’s what this thread is about. As for medium format shutters didn’t Hasselblads ship their lenses cocked?
Hasselblad designed the cameras and lenses to always be cocked when not in use.
Yeah, if you tried to mount a Hassy lens uncocked on the body, you could jam up everything, thereby forcing the use of a special tool to unjam things. If the lens shutter fires off the body, you have to cock the lens before mounting it on the body again...normal status even in the bag = shutter cocked.
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And if in doubt, put the dark slide back in, fire, and then adjust.
Compur and then Prontor designed the shutters that Hasselblads used. Just like Compur designed and made the shutters Rollei used on the TLR, except for the GX since Prontor Werke had stopped manufacturing all mechanical shutters.
An uncocked Hasselblads cameras or lens are a recipe for a damaging camera lens jam.
Some of the Seiko shutters that came with the older Horseman cameras had a push-pull shutter lever (to open the shutter) that would not function unless the shutter is cocked first, so don't force it or it could damage the mechanism.
+1
Make a list and follow it every time. You will still occasionally make a mistake but at least there will be less of them!
The general rule is "don't force anything." For the shutters that have a separate spring for the highest speed, you can really feel the extra resistance when changing to the highest speed uncocked, and it should feel even more resistant when cocked. These shutters are most likely from the 1930s-1950s, and a Seiko LF shutter from the 1960s won't feel like this.
The example cameras that need to be set after cocking, like a Fed or Zorki rangefinder, have focal plane curtain shutters with a rotating dial. It's a completely different mechanism from LF leaf shutters.
The example cameras that need to be set after cocking, like a Fed or Zorki rangefinder, have focal plane curtain shutters with a rotating dial. It's a completely different mechanism from LF leaf shutters.
Boy, you got that right, Vaughn! I know the feeling between my back and my RA.
My YMCA opened back up a while ago and I've been going. They had their first Silver Sneaker's group exercise classes start on Tuesday. There were only 4 of us in the gym, all social distanced.
IMO, a modern "shutter" that is in shape it does not require that, when a shutter requires that to shot an stable speed then it should be serviced, probably it has a lubrication problem.
Best is having a shutter tester and learning how our shutters behave.
It does not apply to apertures.
I change the speed of the new (40 years old) Copal after cooking, no problem.
With the older Synchro-Compur shutter I've in my convertible Symmars I also change the speed after cooking if necessary, but I avoid doing it with the 1/200 and 1/400 speed, as a booster spring is loaded.
With other shutters, better if you don't vary the speed while cocked
With my Compound IV shutter, of course I vary the speed if wanted, it only opens-closes a pneumatic valve so it has absolutely no drawback, instead you may get the Compound broken if cocking it (brute force) while in B or T position.
So a good advice is learning well how your particular shutter has to be operated.
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check your assumptions - specifically your assumption about why I do that. Your assumption is false.
Well, I assumed you do that to ensure an stable speed, at least it is the reason some people do it, if not... why do you fire three times the shutter ?
I've a shutter tester, and I've tested it well. In total I own (only) 7 shutters. One Copal n3, three Synchro Compur n1, two Seiko n0 and a Compound IV. Six of the shutters I own do repeat consistently the same speed, not matering if it is the first time, the third one or the time number 30. One of the Seikos has a bit of oil in the blades, the speed changes until it is fired around 10 times, then speed it is stable, but this comes from a flaw in the shutter.
Of course some antique shutters may require some exercise to get an stable speed, also some poorly serviced modern shutters may experience that effect, but for example my early 1980 copal 3 nails exactly the same speed after 6 months or the time number 10 in a row I fire it.
I got on the bicycle for the first time in a month (other than around town) and rode the 8 miles into the next town to do some work in the gallery. The air was finally clean enough (back to the smoke again today). Fun legs cramps in the early morning hours! Gotta keep moving -- same with lenses!
Boy, you got that right, Vaughn! I know the feeling between my back and my RA.
My YMCA opened back up a while ago and I've been going. They had their first Silver Sneaker's group exercise classes start on Tuesday. There were only 4 of us in the gym, all social distanced.
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Please recall that I prefaced that procedure by saying "I do this to help me to screw up less often" (paraphrasing myself here). So the whole point is to reduce the opportunity for me to screw up....because I have done that a lot and in many diverse ways. So, keep in mind that "cock and fire the shutter three times" is only one step of the whole procedure.
On to the why...All of my large format shutters, except one, are modern black rimed Copals. These shutters have the useful property that they cannot be fired when open for preview/focus. So, cocking and firing the shutter as part of the procedure prevents me from pulling the dark slide when the shutter is open for preview (something I found I did frequently). I do it three times to make an imprint in my short term memory (which isn't so good as it used to be). This helps with self assurance, removes residual doubts.
Something else which I did not mention previously but I will now. For those steps in the procedure where I'm standing in front of the camera looking into the lens (pretty much everything except focusing), I'm talking myself through the steps...again, to imprint in my short term memory that I've done the procedure, completely and correctly. While I'm cocking and firing the shutter three times I'm rechecking that everything is set to go before I move around behind the camera to make the exposure.
Interestingly, I do none of this with the Crown Graphic, which has an old (ca. 1950) Wollensak Rapax shutter. I use it hand held and treat it like a big folder that has a lovely coupled rangefinder.
I've never afforded myself the luxury of owning a shutter speed tester and have never felt the need for one. As you say, the modern Copal shutters are quite reliable. The Wollensak shutter can be a bit erratic at the two or three slowest speeds but this not an issue because those speeds are not useful hand-held.
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Well in my case it was a $15 luxury
It was the one it has a flat base, but a bare photocell. I hacked it to be used with an usb oscilloscope.
That kind of photocell is intended to be connected in the sound card of a pc, it throws a an electric signal that is interpreed like if it was sound so the signal can be seen with a audio edition software, audacity freeware, typically...
As the audio has a time scale we can check the timing, but if using a regular oscilloscope for electronics (it can also be quite cheap, but I have a good one for other concenrs) then all is quite more convenient. That simple device (can be made for $1 in parts) can deliver accurate measurements, and it also can be quite useful for diagnostics as we see both the openning and closing ramps.
Even the late LF shutter models were sold with a +/-30% tolerance, so 1/30 could be 1/20 or 1/40 and no warranty would had been applied, this is a 1 stop variability, still most of modern units were performing more accurately than that. But our situation today is that service is scarce in many regions, and most of the times shutters have not been serviced for decades. Specially if shooting slides a (cheap, $10 to $90) tester is not a bad idea. With negative film there is not much a problem if overexposing 1/2 to 1 stop as a safety factor, it won't harm... but with slides it's different, a shutter having a single speed that's too slow may burn a Velvia sheet, if it is a 8x10" one then photographer may remember that pitfall for many years !! At least I remember quite well my velvia 4x5" pitfalls.
In may personal case, my shutters were quite old and beaten, so to shot some velvia I felt the tester quite useful.
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Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
Set shutter. Cock shutter.
Had my second Silver Sneaker class today. Only 4 of us this time. We lost one.
My regular instructor isn't ready to come back yet. She's 69 and a cancer surviver. I don' blame her with this Covid 19. She's an amazing woman and as limber as Gumby! Exercise is a good thing. We weren't made to sit around all the time.
About your leg cramps, pain is nature's way of telling us we are still alive. At least that's what I keep telling myself! Eight miles? You're a better man then me Vaughn!
I have given up exercise until the pandemic is over. Back to the keyboard.
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