Which Canon (or other LTM) rangefinder?

Väinö Louekari · Dec 4, 2023

Hello all!
I am considering buying either a Canon P or a Canon VT Deluxe. I have several LTM lenses to use with my Bessa R2 but would like to have another body, something more substantial and with a longer rangefinder base lengt. As for lenses I will use a 35 mm and a 50 mm lenses, nothing else. I would prefer a fairly large viewfinder (though I regulary shoot with Kiev 2 ) . Camera should be reliable to the extent that any 70 years old camera can be reliable. I mean, if there is any inherent weaknesses I would like know of them. So what I am asking is: do You have any experience about these? Any caveats? Any other LTM bodies to consider? Lack of light meter is not an issue. My budget (I live in Finland) is about 400 dollars. Thank You.

aw614 · Dec 4, 2023

I've been happy with the Canon L1/L2/VL/VL2 which has a 50mm and 35mm viewfinder like the VT. Though it doesn't have parallax correction or framelines in the viewfinder if that is an issue for you. Prices are reasonable for them too.

I've used a Canon 7 while the viewfinder is larger and clearer, I found it easier to use the L1/L2 in actual use.

Paul Howell · Dec 4, 2023

I used a 7S for years a second body to my Nikon F. I had used Leica 3 and 2 Ms while in the Air Force and although the Leica had better rangefinder than the Canon in all other respects the Canon was much easier to use the field. I also had a IIIG which only used on occasion. My 7S had a working meter, ( it was the 70s) although not a great meter it was usable. The P is another great Canon Rangefinder.

Väinö Louekari · Dec 4, 2023

aw614 said:
I've been happy with the Canon L1/L2/VL/VL2 which has a 50mm and 35mm viewfinder like the VT. Though it doesn't have parallax correction or framelines in the viewfinder if that is an issue for you. Prices are reasonable for them too.

I've used a Canon 7 while the viewfinder is larger and clearer, I found it easier to use the L1/L2 in actual use.

Thank You. I had no idea about L-series, I will look into them too.

Väinö Louekari · Dec 4, 2023

Paul Howell said:
I used a 7S for years a second body to my Nikon F. I had used Leica 3 and 2 Ms while in the Air Force and although the Leica had better rangefinder than the Canon in all other respects the Canon was much easier to use the field. I also had a IIIG which only used on occasion. My 7S had a working meter, ( it was the 70s) although not a great meter it was usable. The P is another great Canon Rangefinder.

Thank You. Do series 7-bodies use some kind of dual bayonet / screw - lens mount? They do accept LTM lenses though?

aw614 · Dec 4, 2023

Väinö Louekari said:
Thank You. Do series 7-bodies use some kind of dual bayonet / screw - lens mount? They do accept LTM lenses though?

I believe it is a dual bayonet for the 50mm F.95 lens, but also accepts LTM lenses, though you should be careful with any collapsible LTM lens which I think you might already be aware since you have a Bessa R2.

Pioneer · Dec 4, 2023

I can't remember ever having one of the Canon LTM rangefinders but I'm sure they were probably just fine. I have a Tower Type III, built by Nicca and sold by Sears Roebuck, that I have owned and used for years. I love the little thing and see no difference between it and my Leica IIIa. In fact I am pretty sure I use the Tower far more often, probably because I am less concerned about scratching it up or losing it. Obviously Germany was not the only country that could build an excellent camera.

Väinö Louekari · Dec 4, 2023

aw614 said:
I believe it is a dual bayonet for the 50mm F.95 lens, but also accepts LTM lenses, though you should be careful with any collapsible LTM lens which I think you might already be aware since you have a Bessa R2.

Thank You. As I am quite happy using a hand held meter, would You yourself prefer 7s on P? P has all framelines visible and 7(s) has this dial to change frames. Maybe that would suggest 7s?

Väinö Louekari · Dec 5, 2023

Pioneer said:
I can't remember ever having one of the Canon LTM rangefinders but I'm sure they were probably just fine. I have a Tower Type III, built by Nicca and sold by Sears Roebuck, that I have owned and used for years. I love the little thing and see no difference between it and my Leica IIIa. In fact I am pretty sure I use the Tower far more often, probably because I am less concerned about scratching it up or losing it. Obviously Germany was not the only country that could build an excellent camera.

Thank You. That looks interesting. Two small viewfinder windows side by side? One for viewing and one for focusing?

aw614 · Dec 5, 2023

Väinö Louekari said:
Thank You. As I am quite happy using a hand held meter, would You yourself prefer 7s on P? P has all framelines visible and 7(s) has this dial to change frames. Maybe that would suggest 7s?

I haven't held a P for very long not have I shot with one to judge how the P is, last time I did was at a camera store and it was only briefly. But the weight between the 7 and L series was fairly noticeable if that is a factor. But if I had to sell my Canon LTM rangefinders, I'd probably keep the L1 I have and sell the 7.

Jim Jones · Dec 5, 2023

The short RF base of older Leicas should be no problem when using only 35 and 50mm lenses. I'm partial to Leicas, having used them from 1953 until moving up to digital about 10 years ago. The Japanese top rangefinder models worked fine WHILE they worked. Sometimes that was many years, sometimes not. I also used a Canon P and Canon 7 until they developed problems many years ago. I don't remember even using my Yashica branded Nicca: perhaps it quit working that soon after buying it second-hand. However, it does still look nice enough. A Nicca bought new in 1953 was still working when given to a friend a few years later. My 1970 Leica appears to be in perfect working condition, although it shows evidence of much hard use. Oh well, when the last of the Vulcanite covering falls off, I can replace it with duct tape and be ready to shoot if I ever return to film. Just now I noticed the original leather strap is failing, after only 53 years!

Sergey Ko · Dec 5, 2023

Pay attention to soviet LTM m39 cameras!
I had Canon IVSB -it was good, but I am not the fan of loading film through the bottom...
Now I have Soviet Zorki-3 instead:
-normal back door for film load
-rangefinder base 39mm
-big viewfinder x1,15
-shutter speeds 1-1/1000
& the price 50-150Euro (+ cheap CLA)
I have and more interesting soviet cameras DRUG, Leningrad, FED-1, Zaria... but it is more for collection needs. However all in the working condition

awty · Dec 5, 2023

For your budget choose between the Canon P or 7, they are the best valued LTM range finders available. There is plenty of comparisons on the net of the two to help with the decision. For your budget you should be able to get one in excellent condition. Don't worry about the crinkled curtains, they make no difference.
I have about 8 Canon rangefinders and my favourite by far is the 7 ( I don't have a P so far). I prefer my model 7 to my Leicas. P would be better if you need a flash or an axillary view find. The meter on my 7 is fully functional and works a treat.

ph · Dec 16, 2023

years ago I used both a VT and a 7. the latter had a bigger and better viewfinder but I preferred the swithable focal length gimmick and the base rapid winder and the cloth shutter curtains (not requiring careful film loading) of the older version. Both were retired in favour of an M3 which served well for years in not very camera friendly environments..

p

AnselMortensen · Dec 16, 2023

I love my Canon P.
Big viewfinder, and loads like an SLR.
Most have wrinkled shutter curtains, which may or may not cause problems, so be aware of that.

skahde · Dec 23, 2023

I had a Canon P as a loaner and liked it to a point where I considered buying one but wound up getting a Leica M6 when I had an opportunity It couldn't resist. In the meantime M6s have gone up in prize by a factor of 2.5 to 3 while Canon rangefinders held their value. This increasing disparity makes the Canons even more attractive today as it does not represent practical usefulness but just market-value. To me the later Canon RFs are like a step between the Barnack-Leicas and the more advanced Leica Ms with quick-loading like my M4. The VT seems tempting for its interesting "Canovit" advance-lever.

guangong · Dec 23, 2023

Having LTM Leicas and Canons, I would opt for the Canon clones or the P because viewfinder and rangefinder are combined rather than separated as in Leica. The S usually has inoperative meter, which doesn't appeal to me. However, examine the foil shutter for dents and deformities of any P you are considering to purchase.

guangong · Dec 23, 2023

guangong said:
Having LTM Leicas and Canons, I would opt for the Canon clones or the P because viewfinder and rangefinder are combined rather than separated as in Leica. The S usually has inoperative meter, which doesn't appeal to me. However, examine the foil shutter for dents and deformities of any P you are considering to purchase.

rayban · Dec 25, 2023

Have not used it extensively but I love the feel of my Canon P with 35 f2, 50 f1.4 , and 100 f3.5 lenses and the built in framelines. Wrinkled shutter on mine not a problem.

skahde · Dec 27, 2023

rayban said:
Have not used it extensively but I love the feel of my Canon P with 35 f2, 50 f1.4 , and 100 f3.5 lenses and the built in framelines. Wrinkled shutter on mine not a problem.

Same here with the wrinkles, I had a P as a loaner from a friend and it worked flawless regardless of dents and wrinkles in the shutter-curtains. A VT from Japan is on its way to me as I'm writing this.

Steve Gandy did a nice comparison of the models:

Canon VT

Sandokan63 · Dec 28, 2023

+1 for the VT. this is what I have because I liked the spike in the base which allows rapid winding without removing from your eye.
CANON MODEL VI-T RANGEFINDER CAMERA W/50mm, f1.4 LENS

skahde · Dec 29, 2023

As were talking I'm sitting in front of a VT I just unpacked. Everything looks fine, very nice indeed, but the shutter-curtains are toast. I already got a full refund and I can keep the wreck, so no damage done except the 25% customs-bill.

guangong · Dec 29, 2023

skahde said:
Same here with the wrinkles, I had a P as a loaner from a friend and it worked flawless regardless of dents and wrinkles in the shutter-curtains. A VT from Japan is on its way to me as I'm writing this.

Steve Gandy did a nice comparison of the models:

Canon VT

Depends upon the extent of the wrinkles. The shutter of my own P is not perfect, but I am careful not to touch shutter curtains, because they are not as pliable as those made of cloth. Somewhat like the shutter of my Hassy 2000 FCM. The M stands for retractable shutter because so many users ruined metal shutters on original FC cameras.

David888 · Jan 7, 2024

If you shoot just 50mm go with the P otherwise the 7 will be better. If you really care about a precise rfdr. patch then only Leica M will do.

BorHa · Jan 21, 2024

The canon p is an excellent camera. My only issue with it is the position of the strap lugs. It makes the camera tilt backwards. It’s a perfect camera otherwise and I highly recommend it.

Which Canon (or other LTM) rangefinder?

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