Where Can I Send Graphic Lens n US For Overhaul?

[F4U]

So far after a week, I haven't heard a peep from 4 different places mentioned.

 

[Rick A]

Go down to the local auto parts or hardware and buy a can of Blaster Dry Graphite Lube. Pull the lens cells from the shutter then step outside and shoot the shutter full of graphite. Insert the straw into the cable release socket and give a squirt. Wait several minutes for the solvent to dry then exercise the shutter at every speed setting. It may take a coupe of tries but I've done this to some of my oldest and most cantankerous shutters with success. Any over spray can be cleaned off with isopropyl alcohol. Tip; hold the shutter with a paper towel so it doesn't get on your hands.

 

[GregY]

So far after a week, I haven't heard a peep from 4 different places mentioned.

I've found that a phone call works better than an email.

 

[F4U]

I received a return text today from Mrs Flutot. Seems there is a medical situation, although she stated she expects to re-open at a later time. I mentioned at that time she should post her re-opening on this site. She said she would.I called Zacks yesterday and spoke to an answering machine. SPTS has not returned my email rfom last week, nor has the fourth, who I don't recall. As I study the Synchro-Compur 1 MX shutter, it is a particularly difficult shutter. Even Chris Sherlock's lengthy series of videos on this particular model shows that even he had difficulty. and if HE does, can you imagine the others' avoidance of it? I've done some shutters myself, but I opened this one up and knew I was in WAY over my head.

 

[mmerig]

I received a return text today from Mrs Flutot. Seems there is a medical situation, although she stated she expects to re-open at a later time. I mentioned at that time she should post her re-opening on this site. She said she would.I called Zacks yesterday and spoke to an answering machine. SPTS has not returned my email rfom last week, nor has the fourth, who I don't recall. As I study the Synchro-Compur 1 MX shutter, it is a particularly difficult shutter. Even Chris Sherlock's lengthy series of videos on this particular model shows that even he had difficulty. and if HE does, can you imagine the others' avoidance of it? I've done some shutters myself, but I opened this one up and knew I was in WAY over my head.

No need to open it up beyond taking the lens elements off. If it's "sluggish" it probably just needs a cleaning. Some non-metal shutter blades are sensitive to some solvents, but the ones in the picture look like metal. Are they?

 

[P C Headland]

...I've watched Chris Sherlock's videos and his work is impeccable. But he's in Australia...

Ahem, further down under than that - New Zealand. But yes, he's retired. His videos are excellent, with great commentary and explanations.

 

[F4U]

Well today I sent it off to SPTS. Talked with a tech who knows these shutters. Back in the day when I worked in a camera store, that's where we sent out all the repairs. But back then, they had a shop on South Blvd in Charlotte. Seemed like everything was done right. But the one in Charlotte is long gone, as am I.

 

[chuckroast]

I have resurrected a number of these older shutters. I am not a fan of spraying, soaking, or otherwise dousing them in any solvent or lubricant. In my view, this is like killing a fly with a shotgun.

The majority of the time, old shutters don't so much need lubrication or even a lot of adjustment. They are mostly dirty from years of use and/or have packed lubricant from disuse. The trick I have found most useful is to remove the lens cells (keeping an eye out for any spacers and their order), setting the assembly on T or for focusing and then very sparingly run a drop or two of naptha into the shutter gear train. It can also be helpful to do the same - sparingly - into the ridge line of the front collar you turn to select the shutter speed to loosen that rotation process a bit.

Then, work the shutter at all speeds, giving time for the naptha to evaporate off. A second application might be indicated.

I have found this more surgical application of cleaning solvent to be just the trick for most shutters. The ones that do not come back from the dead after that do need real teardown and CLA.

Let it be noted that after testing everything from brand new Copal #3s through much older Ilex, Comput, and Kodak shutters, they almost never hit full speed that the highest setting. Moving that much mass that fast isn't easy to do - even my brand new Copal #3s ran slow than indicated.

The only exception was an old Ilex I had Dave Easterwood tune up and it came back with every speed right on the nose. Unfortunately, Easterwood is semi/mostly/sometimes retired and turnaround time can be quite slow. Ditto Frank Marshman at CameraWiz who does really nice work, but has limited availability.

P.S. I just fixed an old Nikkormat of mine this way that was having advance lever return problems. First, I took off the bottom and cleaned the channel the advance lever mechanism rides in with naptha and relubricated it. This helped a lot but didn't quite fix the whole business. So, I took the channel off an gently dropped some naptha down into the film advance-lever return great train - again with naptha - and poof! It all works much like new. Looking at the guts of this camera made in the early 1960s I stand in awe of the quality of manufacturing and just how sturdy these things really are. What a machine.

 

[mmerig]

chuckroast makes a good point -- soaking may be overkill. But the main reason I do it is that getting at the gear train may be difficult without more disassembly, risk of losing a tiny screw, etc. If the solvent chosen is not damaging, soaking the shutter does not increase the risk, and you'll know for sure that whatever needs the solvent gets it. Naptha, 95% alcohol, etc. are not expensive, and I just put it in a jar big enough for the shutter, cap it, and lightly agitate it. As I mentioned, I run the shutter several times through all of the speeds after soaking in alcohol for a few minutes at least. As I recall Carol Flutot told me she soaks the shutter for days before working on it. But that was awhile ago so I may not be remembering correctly.

After cleaning, I usually add a watch-grade lubricant to key areas with a needle dipped in the oil. In other words, very sparing lubrication. I follow repair instructions for the various shutters for lubrication points. But this usually requires more disassembly.

In a pinch (and I expect a lot of blow-back on this one), is to spray about an ounce of WD-40 into a small jar (ideally one of those tiny Testor paint jars) and let it settle for a day or so. Somewhere I read that the clear liquid at the top is similar to watch oil. But I would not use WD-40 as is -- it has thick substances that could gum-up the works over time. These settle-out in the jar. Wait for that before using it.

I usually don't have time to send out a shutter just for a simple cleaning and wait weeks for it to come back, and as chuckroast mentions, the faster speeds are hard to restore anyway, assuming they were that fast to begin with.

Naptha is white gas, and many "old-school" campers that you know may have some stashed away somewhere. I still use my old Svea or Optimus stoves on longer camping trips.

Maybe the alcohol step is unnecessary. Thanks to chuckroast for suggesting that option via just using the naptha successfully.

 

[chuckroast]

chuckroast makes a good point -- soaking may be overkill. But the main reason I do it is that getting at the gear train may be difficult without more disassembly, risk of losing a tiny screw, etc. If the solvent chosen is not

That's true enough, but here is the issue. Indiscriminate use of a solvent can liberate dirt all over that will then relocate somewhere else and continue to cause/increase the problem. A gentle incremental application of cleaning solvent limits the 'blast radius' and is more likely to get you there with lower levels of pain.

I used to work daily with a superb camera repair guy who did high end pro cameras like Hasselblads and similarly very high end film movie cameras. The only time I ever saw him douse something in cleaner is if he completely stripped an assembly down to individual parts. He would clean this in solvent for later reassembly.

Fun Fact: Some of the movie camera tolerances were so tight that if he was replacing a worn part with a new one, the new one would get soaked/boiled in an oil of some sort so that it would be properly self lubricating and - most of all - quiet. Me? I was just working on multi-thousand dollar Nagra analog tape recorders used on movie sets that had to be perfectly aligned and electronically tweaked, not to mention quiet as well. They used ruby tape guides that were decidedly not cheap. But my little projects were a joke compared to that guy's work.

 

[OAPOli]

Soaking or flushing a shutter may help temporarily, but grit, oil and grease will just spread where you can't see it. The parts need to be removed and individually wiped if you want to properly clean them. Escapements or self timers can be flushed or soaked then dried, but outside of the shutter.

 

[mmerig]

Soaking or flushing a shutter may help temporarily, but grit, oil and grease will just spread where you can't see it. The parts need to be removed and individually wiped if you want to properly clean them. Escapements or self timers can be flushed or soaked then dried, but outside of the shutter.

People can do what they are comfortable with, of course. The large-format and 2 by 3 baby graphic shutters I cleaned have a lot of space within them and large, enclosing, non-mechanical surfaces for solvent to move dirt to, whether it's sprayed or soaked, assuming there's dirt to move around. The soaking method works well for me, and I cannot remember ever having to do it again, and the shutters work for years, with consistent speeds (I check them every year or so).

The shutters I have were never so filthy that I thought dirt would settle somewhere else and cause problems. It's been basically a tiny amount of old lubricant on gear shafts etc. that gets stiff with age and non-use (bought used shutters).

Massive amounts of the correct solvent dissolves the lubricant to negligible amounts. A potential downside of the soaking method is that it largely depends on Fick's Law of diffusion to remove the old lubricant. Working the shutter through the speeds several times helps overcome this, and if the shutter starts working or works better while wet, at least you know that it's not a mechanical problem.

Many years ago I had a Nikon F with shutter problems and took it to a recommended, local repairman. He said he would take it all apart and clean all the parts individually. That sounded like the way to go, and if he was competent I would have gotten a working camera back. But he ruined it. (I later heard that he was a good repairmen in his younger years).

The soaking method is a lower-risk method than taking it all apart if one is not used to doing that kind of work. Maybe it won't work on some shutters, even if they are not actually broken, but it's an easy first step that can save a lot of money and time, both of which I am usually short on.

 

[OAPOli]

@mmerig I once tried to flush a leaf shutter in naphtha. The blades were left in a sorry state with many stains on them. I managed to somewhat wipe them clean in situ but it was difficult. When I finally opened the shutter for a proper clean, the same stain were all over the blades' pivot area. The shutter would work but I believe long-term longevity would be affected.

 

[mmerig]

@mmerig I once tried to flush a leaf shutter in naphtha. The blades were left in a sorry state with many stains on them. I managed to somewhat wipe them clean in situ but it was difficult. When I finally opened the shutter for a proper clean, the same stain were all over the blades' pivot area. The shutter would work but I believe long-term longevity would be affected.

Perhaps the blades were not metal? Some shutters have blades made of hard rubber, plastic, etc. Please see this:

https://www.largeformatphotography....erial-are-non-netallic-shutter-blades-made-of

Post # 30 in this thread mentions non-metalic blades. I guess I should have emphasized that more.

Naptha is often stored in metal cans and stays pure, so obviously it does not harm/dissolve metal.

 

[F4U]

There's nothing inherently wrong dropping a leaf shutter in a sonic bath of Coleman camp fuel for an hour. As long as the speed ring has been removed, so as to not to remove the ink or paint of the markings. And also being sure that shutter and aperture blades are metal, and that there's no plastic in the synch mechanism or elsewhere.. And the shutter may show a dramatic improvement. But that's only a portion of the work needed. It's a mechanism of metal moving parts. In essence it's a pocket watch, requiring watchmaker's work. I sent it to SPTS because that's the kind of work they do, or USED to do, anyway. That was back in the day. There's only the one store left, in Miami. We'll see. this lens goes to my Super Graphic with the cam for THAT lens. I've put a great deal of work and dedication in restoring that camera. I decided my own shutter repair skills are not on-par with the camera body work quality I've done. A Graphic Synchro Compur shutter is Hamilton wristwatch complicated. Most of us who've worked on Wollensaks and such would be smart to remember a shutter like this is in another league. I opened it up for a peep. NO WAY!

 

[OAPOli]

@mmreig the leafs were metal. The stains were caused by small amounts of dust or dirt that coalesced in the naphtha and which remained there when the naphtha evaporated.

I've rebuilt multiple shutters. I soak individual components in a jar of naphtha then wipe and blow them clean individually. Inevitably the cleaning tissue is noticeably stained, and a small amount of metal and dirt has decanted in the jar. Most of those impurities will remain in the shutter when it's just soaked or flushed. In addition, shutters require a bit of lubrication. If the shutter is used sparingly it probably doesn't make a difference but for longevity it is required.

 

[mmerig]

Regarding posts 40 and 41:

I agree. The Synchro Compurs are more complicated so need more skill to disassemble, and given the time the OP put into the camera etc., it makes sense to send it out. I should have realized that that's the shutter the OP is dealing with. Earlier I mentioned lubrication, so I did not leave that out.

Also, thanks for the cautionary tale on the stained shutter blades. I haven't encountered that. I rinse the blades with spray after the soaking-working-the shutter steps to make sure they are really clean.

The main point I was trying to make is that a soaking could work (and it always has for me, including for Synchro-Compurs) so it's worth a try, and others may read this thread and decide to try it. I guess the shutters I have were not dirty/oily enough to have to disassemble and clean in a meticulous way.

I have done some easy repairs along with cleaning of Synchro-Compurs, but wanted to keep my posts simple.

Also, I did not realize that cams were lens-specific ("THAT lens") rather than focal-length or model-specific. It's possible that your particular lens cannot be repaired now or will break in the future. What can you do then? Custom grind another cam?

Although it's probably obvious, I should point out that I have a minimalist approach to equipment and can usually "McGiver" my way through problems.

It's possible that my approach is literally "quick and dirty", but problems are slow to show up, and it will be hard to know whether it was poor cleaning or new dirt with continued use.

This has all been very interesting so thanks again. I learned a lot.

 

[chuckroast]

Regarding posts 40 and 41:

I agree. The Synchro Compurs are more complicated so need more skill to disassemble, and given the time the OP put into the camera etc., it makes sense to send it out. I should have realized that that's the shutter the OP is dealing with. Earlier I mentioned lubrication, so I did not leave that out.

Also, thanks for the cautionary tale on the stained shutter blades. I haven't encountered that. I rinse the blades with spray after the soaking-working-the shutter steps to make sure they are really clean.

The main point I was trying to make is that a soaking could work (and it always has for me, including for Synchro-Compurs) so it's worth a try, and others may read this thread and decide to try it. I guess the shutters I have were not dirty/oily enough to have to disassemble and clean in a meticulous way.

I have done some easy repairs along with cleaning of Synchro-Compurs, but wanted to keep my posts simple.

Also, I did not realize that cams were lens-specific ("THAT lens") rather than focal-length or model-specific. It's possible that your particular lens cannot be repaired now or will break in the future. What can you do then? Custom grind another cam?

Although it's probably obvious, I should point out that I have a minimalist approach to equipment and can usually "McGiver" my way through problems.

It's possible that my approach is literally "quick and dirty", but problems are slow to show up, and it will be hard to know whether it was poor cleaning or new dirt with continued use.

This has all been very interesting so thanks again. I learned a lot.

I have used napha on fully assembled shutter gear trains in sparing amounts and gotten a slight residue on the blades. It's never made any difference in the function of the shutter.